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Requesting a subforum for fancy coloured diamonds

TristanC

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
995
Hi, right now FCDs sit firmly on the fence of both rocky talk as well as the coloured gems sub forums.

Would appreciate if the moderators found it fit to open a subforum for FCDs due to their rather unique niche and the growing interest that we are seeing from forum members.

Very very broadly (and a bit of an over-generalisation) there is a predisposition for cut preference in the rocky talk forum, and a lot of colour love in the CS forum which puts FCDs in a sort of strange middle ground.

FCDs really do seem to belong much more to the CS forum, given that the industry treats them as very rare and precious gems valued for colour more than anything, but being diamonds, there are a few whose voice would love it if cuts were dramatically improved in these amazing gemstones - and if that small voice started here at PS!
 

justginger

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 11, 2009
Messages
3,712
Well put, Tristan - would love to find a corner niche for FCDs that balances the two very different areas of priority re: cut and color.
 

psadmin

Brilliant_Rock
Staff member
Premium
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Messages
1,402
Thank you for the suggestion.

We are looking into creating one in the near future.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,714
I have mixed feelings about a new FCD forum.
I suspect that while a dedicated FCD forum will be delightful for me and a few others, and for FCD vendors, the overall effect will be LESS FCD exposure to the bulk of PSers and fewer FCD sales.
A new FCD forum will get very very few eyeballs, compared to what they get today on RT and CS.
Look at the post counts and view counts for some of PS's other specialized fora.

I have a love affair with FCDs and I like to spread the word and introduce people to them.
Those people today hang out on RT and CS.

FCDs are a small niche market.
I don't think very many people who would open an FCD thread on RT or CS will bother checking yet ANOTHER forum.
We will lose them.

An FCD forum will be preaching to the choir, so to speak.
This is not a good way to spread FCD-love to new people.

I think the solution is not a new forum, but a programing solution which causes all FCD threads to be visible in both RT and CS.
FCD discussions truly do belong in both of those fora, not in neither of them.
FCD threads benefit from the expertise of both communities, even in spite of RT's cut emphasis.

If there must be an FCD forum, then I hope PS can program to keep all threads in that forum show up as shadow threads in CS and RT.
I think it is called a shadow thread.
 

movie zombie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
11,879
personally, a color stone is a Color Stone whether a diamond, ruby, sapphire or lovely spess. therefore, i think the current color stone forum here has and can continue to be the forum for FCD discussion.

while i understand the desire by some to "improve" cut, color stones are not about cut but about COLOR. and so it is also true with FCD's.

i am not a fan of buying a stone and having it recut; however, it would seem that those desiring a better cut FCD could have this done on their own dime.

i for one would hate to see cut take priority over color. yes, this is the opinion of a true color stone person.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,714
movie zombie|1310057241|2963852 said:
i for one would hate to see cut take priority over color. yes, this is the opinion of a true color stone person.
Well that's the funny thing about FCDs.
Yes, the industry cuts FCDs to strengthen the color because getting a higher grade, like Fancy Vivid instead of just Fancy Intense, produces much higher profit from the same piece of rough...
BUT...
I have learned from buying almost 20 FCDs that FCDs CAN have better or worse cut-related light performance, just like with colorless diamonds.
This light performance is 100% independent of how good the color is.

I shoot for the best of both worlds (good color AND good light performance) in one stone.
I rarely get it, but it's a worthy goal and I think if PS has any influence on buyers, sellers, and cutters we may educate customers to demand better light performance from FCDs.
It IS possible.
I think a PS education can mean customers will demand better light performance from FCDs.
I have returned some and have said why.
At least one vendor knows at least one FCD buyer cares about light performance too.

I do not agree with the mentality that we should throw our hands up and only pay attention to FCD's color no matter how crappy the light performance.
I believe this is the mentality that many FCD sellers want us to accept.

When it comes to the CS and RT communities and where FCD discussions "belong" . . .
I do not think that RT's cut-for-light-performance bias is that troublesome to FCD discussions, and I do not think CS's cut-for-optimum-color bias is that troublesome.
They do not compete, they compliment and are both true when it comes to FCDs.

IMHO FCD discussions should reach the expertise of both communities.
 

jaebond

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Messages
208
kenny|1310020901|2963520 said:
I have mixed feelings about a new FCD forum.
I suspect that while a dedicated FCD forum will be delightful for me and a few others, and for FCD vendors, the overall effect will be LESS FCD exposure to the bulk of PSers and fewer FCD sales.
A new FCD forum will get very very few eyeballs, compared to what they get today on RT and CS.
Look at the post counts and view counts for some of PS's other specialized fora.

I have a love affair with FCDs and I like to spread the word and introduce people to them.
Those people today hang out on RT and CS.

FCDs are a small niche market.
I don't think very many people who would open an FCD thread on RT or CS will bother checking yet ANOTHER forum.
We will lose them.

An FCD forum will be preaching to the choir, so to speak.
This is not a good way to spread FCD-love to new people.

I think the solution is not a new forum, but a programing solution which causes all FCD threads to be visible in both RT and CS.
FCD discussions truly do belong in both of those fora, not in neither of them.
FCD threads benefit from the expertise of both communities, even in spite of RT's cut emphasis.

If there must be an FCD forum, then I hope PS can program to keep all threads in that forum show up as shadow threads in CS and RT.
I think it is called a shadow thread.
I am new to the whole diamond world, but in my short time I have found a soft spot for FCDs. However, I know for a fact that I never would have found this interest if not for threads in the RT forum.
 

movie zombie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
11,879
kenny, i agree that i want some light performance also.

but i also know that as light performance goes up so will price.......

and i'm not sure that many pricescopers will be happy about that.

as it is now those of us that buy [admittedly i don't buy as frequently as some] can find some nice performers that are "affordable".

and while education is a great thing, putting pressure on the industry will result in higher prices for a product that is already out of the reach of many.

the question remains: do we need a separate forum for FCD's? perhaps we do.....as many have come to them from different forums. obviously, i've reconsidered.
 

Lula

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
4,544
I'd like to learn more about FCD's, but I'm not sure I'd remember to check another subforum. I already visit CS, RT, SMTB and Hangout on a regular basis. I keep forgetting about the Diamond Research sub-forum, so I rarely visit it. I'm afraid there's a limit to how many sub-forums some of us (the older ones among us, ha-ha) can keep up with. Maybe you need a sticky at the top of RT or CS as a place to collect helpful threads on FCD's (no matter what forum they originated in).
 

LD

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
9,682
I'm not sure about having a separate sub forum for the following reasons:-

1. FCDs are a niche market and people find information either when looking for diamonds OR have a love of colour.

2. FCDs probably have more in common with coloured stones because in both worlds, colour is KING. Posters in the coloured stone forum talk predominately about colour BUT also acknowledge cut - so it does have its cross-over with white diamonds in some respects.

3. If you look at the people who have bought a number of FCDs, they seem to hang out more in the coloured stone forum (I may be wrong but that's my gut reaction).

4. I don't think (and am prepared to be corrected) that there are many people that buy only FCDs (perhaps Kenny being an exception?).

5. It's good to have everything in one place!
 

VapidLapid

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Messages
4,267
So colored diamonds think they're better than the rest of us colored stones?
 

movie zombie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
11,879
yes. they are diamonds and as such demand much more respect than garnets, tourmalines, even rubies or sapphires as per the marketing geniuses at de beers. :twisted: :D :(sad :-o :angryfire: :lol:

for the record, i have a coupld of FCD's myself and i'd never think to go anywhere other than the Color Stone forum for info.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,714
LovingDiamonds|1310076278|2964145 said:
4. I don't think (and am prepared to be corrected) that there are many people that buy only FCDs (perhaps Kenny being an exception?).
Also for the record I have about the same number of colorless diamonds as FCDs.
I only point this out so I'm not perceived has having favoritism of one over the other when it comes to the politics of PS fora.
I love them all. :love:
 

TristanC

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
995
Actually the solution that I requested might actually be the death of new interest - as Kenny pointed out.

My frustrations stem from the fact that to get both sides of the coin I actually need to post variously in both RT and CS forums and that is actually frowned upon.

No, coloured diamonds are not innately superior to any/all other gemstones. But they are a different animal due to occurance, availability and the price. Unfortunately I feel that cut matters a lot. If you see the excitement in CS forums about all the precision cut gems, cut drops etc... you know what we mean when we say that FCDs deserve to be cut to the most exacting standards possible. CS forumers may espouse a love for colour first, but the good cutters are marrying both worlds in a way that stirs the PS wallet into action time and time again.

CS is definitely more appropriate as a forum at this point in time, but many of the big value purchases are happening in RT. Barring the odd ruby and alex purchase discussed in CS, the bulk of the stones are gorgeous gems with the added virtue of being within reach of more people than FCDs. Would be nice to get the duality of coverage that FCDs deserve.
 

LD

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
9,682
Tristan if you hang around CS long enough you'll see a high number of very unusual and rare gemstones that have a nice price tag! They are the exception rather than the rule I'd agree - but then so are FCDs!

Just because CS'ers love colour doesn't mean cut isn't important to some. Some CS'ers will only buy precision cut coloured gemstones. Others buy both and some buy whatever pleases them. :bigsmile:

The reality is that FCDs are not in plentiful supply and so no matter how many forums we may wish there were asking for precision cut FCDS, the market is unlikely to adjust going forward. If you look at the rarest of coloured gemstones you'll also find that they are cut for weight/colour first and foremost - just like FCDs finding a precision cut one in a decent size is exceptionally difficult.

That's why I believe the two worlds (FCD and CS) belong together!
 

Sunstorm

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
Messages
1,707
I think this is a great idea, I for one would love a subforum for FCDs as I know it can be annoying to search where is a thread on FCDs and they are my particular interest. I really do not think they belong under colored stones at all simply because they are not. They are diamonds, they are colored diamonds but diamonds nevertheless, totally wrong to put them under colored gemstones. Even at colored stones courses one does not learn about FCDs.

I very much agree with Tristan that because an FCD is a diamond, cut is of great importance, thank you for mentioning that, I so agree and I have seen many badly cut FCDs and a few great cuts which I prefer to select. Now what is a great cut and a bad cut here; yeah we want color to take centerstage but for that cut is of utmost important or otherwise color will never be brought out of the rough and two we want the FCD to be alive, not look dead like many but look brilliant like they should be as they are diamonds. I feel very strongly about this since having seen and owned FCDs cut to perfection. Now you know a great cut when you see one, the stone will talk to you even if it does not have to be cut to the same exacts as colorless. It truly is an art.
 

Sunstorm

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
Messages
1,707
Last night I wrote tired and forgot to add a few points that are important to me, of course I welcome comments and I do realize that my points may be too technical but I feel very strongly about them and FCDs are my true passion so I would like to contribute.

Now from the point of a gemologist I feel that if there is no subforum then if anywhere they should belond under the Diamonds forum, I for one would have never looked under colored stones. Why? Like I said FCDs are diamonds first and foremost, what is their chemical composition? They are not corundum, correct? They are made up of carbon atoms with certain trace elements in some cases; like boron in blues, nitrogen or hydrogen in yellows, structural deformities in pinks and oranges and radiation causes green we know that but basically they are still carbon.

Would we put leukosapphires under diamonds because they are colorless? What about all other colorless stones? Obviously they are not diamonds, have nothing to do with them just because they do not exhibit color they still would go under colored stones however confusing that may be.

As to the importance of cut, I for one place great importance on light performance because I definitely would not want my FCDs to look like sapphires or topaz or whatever, I want them to look like diamonds, this is what they are and why they stand out, otherwise what is the point that these gems are unparalleled because they have the light performance of diamonds and the colors of the rainbow.

Of course this is just my opinion and contribution and am open for discussion.
 
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