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Republican Lack of Health Care Act Redux

When McCain voted to allow the bill to come to a vote I was furious. You get taxpayer funded healthcare and you're going to take healthcare away from millions of people?! How jaded can you be ?!

Then he voted. And u was like "shiiiiiiit I was wrong" and I've never been so happy to be wrong. Just like that post that shows the Reddit response, I think he was playing the long con all along and it was amazing. The clip of audible gaps gives me life.

I just don't understand what the Republicans have been doing for 7 years. You know you could have created a better replacement, rather than just spewing talking points without creating a viable alternative. Also "Obamacare" was a bipartisan bill with articles from both sides of the isle. So suck it up and work together to fix the ACA.

Ugh, those audible gasps give me life!
 
We are intending to move to the US as soon as our son becomes a citizen,so we won't have any choice, we will have to self fund. But that is our choice, so we will have to, as we say here, lump it!
 
TC, Illegals do go to our ERs. How on Earth do you think their kids become citizens? You can't just bring a baby into the US and get a birth certificate, they go to and use our hospitals, when the baby is born in the hospital they get citizenship. If they are so afraid of using our hospitals, why are they not afraid to drive? Or commit crime? Or, go to our schools? Or collect food stamps and Medicaid on their citizen children? Please.

Mayo took Medicare for a very long time. It has nothing to do with that odd reply of yours. You really have some odd reasoning.

I am not contradicting myself at all. You are. I don't believe people should be FORCED to pay for something they don't want. You are the one saying everyone should pay for this (universal), even if it is inadequate, and still have to pay for more (private). THAT is a walking contradiction.

Snowdrop, that is incorrect. I see 6+ month waits regularly. These are actual patients in misery wating6 months while more and more damage is being done to their bodies! They might aim for 18 weeks but that is not the norm. These are people with pancreatitis (where the pancreas actually digested itself) and biliary obstructions (where the liver becomes more and more damaged with time).
These are not elective surgeries.

Also, funny you mentioned maternal mortality. Women are having children much older than they used to. I am sure that contributes. Women who
have children older are more likely to have preventable and reversible health conditions (high BP, diabetes...). I am prettty sure I read that the US has more obese people, too. That increases maternal mortality risks. You don't need health insurance to tell you that you are obese or do you need health insurance to tell you to move your body and eat better. Most over weight people know they are over weight, they just don't care.

Now, yes, I would much rather go bankrupt to save my life than have my pancreas digest itself to death while waiting 4-6 months for my first CT and it's results, then another 4-6 months for my MRI and then another 6 months for my first ERCP then another 6 months for a surgery since ERCPs may be the first procedure they are rarely successful. And all that while seeing a specialist, that isn't even including the visits prior to doctors realizing I would need a specialist.
 
All I am going to say is the people that liberals are worried about covering are a few groups of people, some simply don't want insurance because they would rather put it towards materialistic items (many people in my family) and people with preventable and reversible diseases (high BP, most diabetes cases). People with severe untreatable diseases (like mine) can get on disablity or even Medicaid, we don't need universal to mess things up for us. By forcing universal on us you will make us suffer much more and for much longer as our bodies become weaker and weaker. Just know this. I KNOW this.
 
Austina said:
We are intending to move to the US as soon as our son becomes a citizen,so we won't have any choice, we will have to self fund. But that is our choice, so we will have to, as we say here, lump it!
Click to expand...

I'm not a morning person, but this isn't a clear answer to my earlier question of which system you prefer. Are you saying you are moving to the US because you prefer the healthcare and insurance system here over that in the UK?

In any case, good luck self funding your healthcare when you're here. It's very expensive paying out of pocket.
 
I know, TC. Reading is difficult, I understand. Facts are facts no matter where they come from.
You quote the liberal NYTs.
Put it this way, your NYTs article may be missing some key facts that skew the results.
For instance, I decided on robotic surgery for a while, I was sure I wanted it. After I did my research I found nearly every report showed robotic surgery had more risks of severe complications. It didn't make sense after seeing the surgery videos performed online. The movements and visualization were much more acute but I could 't find a single report showing robotic surgery was better in any circumstance. It was always either the same quality or less. I knew there had to be something not being considered that were messing with the results despite taking the age of patient, length of surgery and type of surgery into consideration (and many other factors). Well, I made an appointment with my doc who somehow read my mind. He asked if I ever considered taking out my uterus (severely heavy blood loss) and I was in shock and told him I was affraid to ask him about that and him just think I was addicted to surgery (after having so many). Then he told me about robotic surgery and how it is much safer than laparoscopic. Reading my mind again he proceeded to tell me about how they just now found out that the reason they were not considered safer before was because of the surgeons who perform them in addition to laparoscopic surgery. If a surgeon performs nearly all surgeries the robotic route, the results were much better! One little factor changes all of it.
 
t-c said:
I'm not a morning person, but this isn't a clear answer to my earlier question of which system you prefer. Are you saying you are moving to the US because you prefer the healthcare and insurance system here over that in the UK?

In any case, good luck self funding your healthcare when you're here. It's very expensive paying out of pocket.
Click to expand...

No, I'm not say we are moving because of the healthcare, we're moving because our only child has chosen to make the US his home and he's asked us to move to be near him. We have, of course, ensured that we will be able to afford healthcare when we do make the move. Lower taxes in the US, offset some of the cost for us, coupled with cheaper property.

In an ideal world, the NHS 'should' be the ideal solution to free healthcare for all. Unfortunately, inefficiency in the running of the NHS, abuses of the system, i.e. medical tourism, an aging and ever increasing obese population and the lack of limitless funds, means we have never relied on the NHS, despite making large contributions through NI. Would we prefer that we didn't have to rely on self funded private insurance, of course, why would anyone want to pay twice? But we live in the real world and not Utopia.
 
Mrs2Ouch said:
I know, TC. Reading is difficult, I understand. Facts are facts no matter where they come from.
You quote the liberal NYTs.
Put it this way, your NYTs article may be missing some key facts that skew the results.
Click to expand...

:lol: I would hope not.
 
Well, TC, you kind of proved it is difficult for you.
 
Niel said:
When McCain voted to allow the bill to come to a vote I was furious. You get taxpayer funded healthcare and you're going to take healthcare away from millions of people?! How jaded can you be ?!

Then he voted. And u was like "shiiiiiiit I was wrong" and I've never been so happy to be wrong. Just like that post that shows the Reddit response, I think he was playing the long con all along and it was amazing. The clip of audible gaps gives me life.

I just don't understand what the Republicans have been doing for 7 years. You know you could have created a better replacement, rather than just spewing talking points without creating a viable alternative. Also "Obamacare" was a bipartisan bill with articles from both sides of the isle. So suck it up and work together to fix the ACA.

Ugh, those audible gasps give me life!
Click to expand...

You know it's funny, I (liberal to the core) have long felt like for some reason, I like McCain and felt like he had his stuff together. Not everything all the time, but I believe him to not be a total sh!t. So many of my friends were outraged "How can he do this knowing how sick he is, how can he do this to people" and I told them "Eh. Let's see where he's going with this."

I got a LOT of texts after this hahaha!
 
Also I have missed Ruby so much and am glad she is back! Hey girl! :wavey:
 
TC, I did and you are unable to counter anything I said. You are very closed minded. Good luck with your life living like that.
 
Ruby... is Kenny with you... ?
 
Mrs2Ouch said:
TC, I did and you are unable to counter anything I said. You are very closed minded. Good luck with your life living like that.
Click to expand...

Well, only one of us has needed to resort to personal attacks (hint: it isn't me)...
 
It wasn't a personal attack. You are the one avoiding reading things that may prove you wrong.
I can always post pictures of conversations of ladies in the support groups that prove they wdit 6 months for MRIs, CTs and surgeries, when I get the chance to scribble out their names for their privacy. Maybe that would be easier.
 
Dee*Jay said:
Ruby... is Kenny with you... ?
Click to expand...

I didn't want to get involved in anything nasty, but I have to confess this posting of yours made me giggle, Dee*Jay! And it's unfortunate, because I am sitting in my (adult) daughter's room with her waiting for her meds to kick in and have her fall asleep so that I can leave her room and go back to my own! My giggling woke her up again!

AGBF :wavey:
 
Elliott and DeeJay, Thank you for always brightening the day!!!!

Deb, I hope your daughter is feeling better and things have been easier for you. Hugs
 
t-c said:
You really should learn to challenge the idea, not attack the person.
Click to expand...
Speaking of attacks....there used to be like 4 conservatives posting here on HO and now they are all gone!...Humm, wonder why?...:rolleyes2:
 
It couldn't have been that they buckled under logic and facts, no no. Hmmmm. They required a safe, warm, friendly internet play doh room? A place to cry about Hillary's emails? Hacked by Russians? Who knows.
 
Mrs2Ouch said:
Well, TC, you kind of proved it is difficult for you.
Click to expand...
Mrs2Ouch...I have been here for 12 yrs, if there's one thing I have learn is ... if you don't agree with the liberals here they will gang up on you!..;)2. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!...:lol:
 
Mrs2Ouch said:
TC, I did and you are unable to counter anything I said. You are very closed minded. Good luck with your life living like that.
Click to expand...

I was doing something else so could only post short replies, but now that I have more time, let's explore the bolded, shall we?

You are against the single-payer system because "waiting 3 weeks for surgery is agonizing" enough. In fact, you "have NEVER waited more than a week for [your] many MRI, MRCP and CT tests and results" while in countries with the single-payer system have to wait at least 3 months for their test results and 6 months for surgeries. However, on your next post you mentioned that the "Mayo Clinic quit taking out of state Medicare patients and limit the in state number" and that you are "on Medicare and had to get on [your] hubby's insurance just to be seen there at Mayo".

So my question to you was, considering Medicare is basically the US equivalent of the NHS in the UK, you would rather have hospitals denying you care -- as the Mayo did in refusing to take your Medicare -- rather than wait 3 weeks (should have written 6 months) for surgery? I pointed out that there is also private medical insurance offered in single-payer countries that allow patients to be seen immediately and is much cheaper than what it costs in the US.

Your response: "I would rather not wait 6 months for surgery. Also, it is clear that to keep up with providing the best care they HAVE to refuse patients with government insurance. Yes, I do want the best care possible, thank you." -- so you are okay with being denied care rather than wait. As for private insurance, you ask, "why should anyone HAVE to pay for private if they are forced to pay for government run healthcare, too?" You seem to not realize that it is exactly what you are doing right now: you are paying for Medicare via taxes and you still paying for private insurance through your husband.

You are comparing US private insurance with NHS, but given that private insurance is also available in single-payer countries, you should really compare US private insurance to (UK, Aus, etc...) private insurance; and Medicare/Medicaid to the NHS (or equivalent). It seems that the cost of private insurance is much lower in the UK than in the US.

As for your contention that the reason the Mayo refuses Medicare/Medicaid patients, I have seen the decision to not take Medicare/Medicaid made by hospitals and doctor groups, and it is primarily because they have a large enough patient population with private insurance that they don't have to take Medicare/Medicaid to remain financially healthy. Ask your doctor and hospital administrator friends (they'll tell you the truth and not the PR line) and you will find that this is actually a very common reason for rejecting Medicare/Medicaid patients.

As for everyone being treated in the ER, I agreed, but you ignored the fact that the hospital and doctors will go after the patient for payment; often times so aggressively that the patient is forced into bankruptcy.

And in terms of illegals, let's do the math:
$15B/year payment into SS + local & sales taxes - $4B/year child tax credit = seems to me they're still a net positive, but I'm sure you'll come up with more than $11B/year in benefits that they use.

But, sure, you don't like single-payer. You are a heavy consumer of healthcare. How many surgeries? You probably cost the insurance companies hundreds of thousands of dollars. Good luck finding affordable premiums in the private insurance market when your husband retires -- that is if the insurance companies even agree to cover your preexisting conditions.

If you want to continue this discussion without the personal insults, I am around, otherwise, I'm done with you.
 
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