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Replacement Sapphire - Same color, shape, size?

yogijen

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
44
Hello,

I need your advice and insight - how challenging is it to find a replacement sapphire that is the same size, color, cut, etc as another one?

I purchased a ring that experienced a color-shift in the center stone following heat exposure during resizing. You can see in the photo before that it was a grey/purple sapphire that is now green-tinged. :cry2:

The jeweler is looking for a replacement center stone that is as similar to the center stone as possible, but it's been over a month and a half and I am not happy with the potential replacement options so far.

How long would you wait? What would you do in this situation? Thanks in advance!

comparison.jpg
 
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yogijen

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
44
For reference, the original center stone is a natural light pink sapphire weighing 2.03 ct and is 7.5mm in diameter.

The current replacement stone options range from 1.46 - 1.85 ct, and 7.2 - 7.5mm. What do you think?

I am most picky about the color, cut, and clarity, so will likely have to give on the size of the replacement since there will not likely be a 'perfect' stone. In this case, should I be more concerned about the weight or diameter?

Or is this an impossible task? I don't want to waste theirs or my time :(2

ACS_0554.JPG
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,861
As long as it will fit the current setting (which all do), I would go for the cut. Looks like 2 of the stones in the pictures have cut issues. The stone sitting on the same finger as the ring looks to have the best cut out of all 3.
 

yogijen

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
44
As long as it will fit the current setting (which all do), I would go for the cut. Looks like 2 of the stones in the pictures have cut issues. The stone sitting on the same finger as the ring looks to have the best cut out of all 3.

Thanks, @chrono! Yes, that is the newest option that has the closest cut to the original stone.

I haven’t seen that one in person yet. I was not a fan of the other two because of the cut quality and style - Brilliant with step faceting, and Portuguese.
 

MissyBeaucoup

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 10, 2017
Messages
1,058
I wanted to change out a sapphire in a setting and chose something with very different carat weight and proportions. The one I removed had a lot more belly weight but the diameter at prong level was about the same. My jeweler did have to retip the prongs. It came out great! I looked for about a year to find the stone I wanted. Thanks for sharing your experience! Be patient as matching a setting is not as easy as it looks.
 

yogijen

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
44
Th
I wanted to change out a sapphire in a setting and chose something with very different carat weight and proportions. The one I removed had a lot more belly weight but the diameter at prong level was about the same. My jeweler did have to retip the prongs. It came out great! I looked for about a year to find the stone I wanted. Thanks for sharing your experience! Be patient as matching a setting is not as easy as it looks.

Thanks, @MissyBeaucoup! Helpful to hear your story.

I’m a bit frustrated, since this situation was unexpected and not by choice. But I’m thankful this didn’t happen on a time-sensitive matter like an engagement!
 

pokerface

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
359
Wow, this is so unusual! I thought heat treatment normally improves the color of a sapphire? I am curious if there is any possibility that the stone is not a sapphire at all. A stone like rose quartz is much more likely to shift to a greenish color after heating. And is it not strange to have a uniform, 100% color change after a standard ring resizing? This raises a few alarms for me and I would be interested in hearing other opinions. I must say I love the ring itself; it is so whimsical and feminine!
 

Mrs_Strizzle

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 14, 2018
Messages
997
Wow, this is so unusual! I thought heat treatment normally improves the color of a sapphire? I am curious if there is any possibility that the stone is not a sapphire at all. A stone like rose quartz is much more likely to shift to a greenish color after heating. And is it not strange to have a uniform, 100% color change after a standard ring resizing? This raises a few alarms for me and I would be interested in hearing other opinions. I must say I love the ring itself; it is so whimsical and feminine!

:shock: I don't know the answer to this at all except to say heat treatment for sappires is almost 2000 F to desolve the silk. If this is a Sapphire can you imagine all the padparadschas in peril every time a resizing is done?

OP, do you have a GIA/ AGL report on the original stone?

Or, could it have a chemical film on it from the resizing that is making the pale stone appear to have changed color? I've seen several posts in Rocky about a film on diamonds after resizing/setting/ cleaning with the wrong solution.
 

Rfisher

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 19, 2013
Messages
3,372
Is the same jeweler that sized it, the one who sold it to you?
 

yogijen

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
44
Wow, this is so unusual! I thought heat treatment normally improves the color of a sapphire? I am curious if there is any possibility that the stone is not a sapphire at all. A stone like rose quartz is much more likely to shift to a greenish color after heating. And is it not strange to have a uniform, 100% color change after a standard ring resizing? This raises a few alarms for me and I would be interested in hearing other opinions. I must say I love the ring itself; it is so whimsical and feminine!
Yes, unusual indeed! They’ve sent the stone into GIA for more information, since heat from soldering should not have caused this.

They told me that there are two methods of resizing: 1) traditional solder for rings with diamonds, heat-treated sapphires, etc, and 2) laser for rings with natural sapphires and other stones to focus the heat on the band only.

Thank you for your comment on the ring itself! =)2

:shock: I don't know the answer to this at all except to say heat treatment for sappires is almost 2000 F to desolve the silk. If this is a Sapphire can you imagine all the padparadschas in peril every time a resizing is done?

OP, do you have a GIA/ AGL report on the original stone?

Or, could it have a chemical film on it from the resizing that is making the pale stone appear to have changed color? I've seen several posts in Rocky about a film on diamonds after resizing/setting/ cleaning with the wrong solution.
Wow that is hot! Are most pads natural or heated?

I do not have a GIA/AGL report on the original stone; all I know is that it is a natural Sri Lankan sapphire. However, the jeweler sent it to GIA for investigation and I will share the results when I find out. ;)2

If it were a chemical film, would you expect it to have only affected only the center stone? The other surrounding stones are a mix of diamonds and sapphires that were unchanged.

Is the same jeweler that sized it, the one who sold it to you?
No, the jeweler sends out their rings for resizing and they said this is the first time something like this has happened. :(2
 

Rfisher

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 19, 2013
Messages
3,372
Yes, unusual indeed! They’ve sent the stone into GIA for more information, since heat from soldering should not have caused this.

They told me that there are two methods of resizing: 1) traditional solder for rings with diamonds, heat-treated sapphires, etc, and 2) laser for rings with natural sapphires and other stones to focus the heat on the band only.

Thank you for your comment on the ring itself! =)2


Wow that is hot! Are most pads natural or heated?

I do not have a GIA/AGL report on the original stone; all I know is that it is a natural Sri Lankan sapphire. However, the jeweler sent it to GIA for investigation and I will share the results when I find out. ;)2

If it were a chemical film, would you expect it to have only affected only the center stone? The other surrounding stones are a mix of diamonds and sapphires that were unchanged.


No, the jeweler sends out their rings for resizing and they said this is the first time something like this has happened. :(2

It’s a relief to know the jeweler is already sending the stone to GIA to find out what is going on.
but I meant to ask not that the actual jeweler that sold it to you was actually themselves resizing. But it sounds like the jeweler that sold it to you is the one that sent it out for resizing. I think that’s good - so they are responsible for the findings and outcome of all this, right?
If you paid for a sapphire (I understand you have already said there was no lab report ) you should have at least received a sapphire. So there again - I hope you are made whole/satisfied with whatever outcome it is.
I hope the replacement sapphire you get also gets a lab report.
Unless what you are paying is incredibly inexpensive.............
And you mention Pad? Was the original marketed to you by this jeweler as a Pad or Pad-like?
 

yogijen

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
44
It’s a relief to know the jeweler is already sending the stone to GIA to find out what is going on.
but I meant to ask not that the actual jeweler that sold it to you was actually themselves resizing. But it sounds like the jeweler that sold it to you is the one that sent it out for resizing. I think that’s good - so they are responsible for the findings and outcome of all this, right?
If you paid for a sapphire (I understand you have already said there was no lab report ) you should have at least received a sapphire. So there again - I hope you are made whole/satisfied with whatever outcome it is.
I hope the replacement sapphire you get also gets a lab report.
Unless what you are paying is incredibly inexpensive.............
And you mention Pad? Was the original marketed to you by this jeweler as a Pad or Pad-like?

Yes, the jeweler procures their own stones and sent it out for resizing after I purchased the ring. I think they are going to file an insurance claim for the damage/loss on the original center stone.

The replacement stone that I'm considering doesn't have a lab report. Should I ask for one? The ring was quite expensive...

I only mentioned pad because another commenter (Mrs_Strizzle) mentioned that pads would be in peril if every resizing caused color-shifting. The original was not marketed as pad. It is a natural Sri Lankan sapphire.
 

Rfisher

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 19, 2013
Messages
3,372
Yes, the jeweler procures their own stones and sent it out for resizing after I purchased the ring. I think they are going to file an insurance claim for the damage/loss on the original center stone.
Best case scenario, this is, that the jeweler is accepting the responsibility - not you.

The replacement stone that I'm considering doesn't have a lab report. Should I ask for one? The ring was quite expensive...
me? I would. Especially if it’s expensive.........do you mind saying the ballpark price? I understand if not.

I only mentioned pad because another commenter (Mrs_Strizzle) mentioned that pads would be in peril if every resizing caused color-shifting. The original was not marketed as pad. It is a natural Sri Lankan sapphire.
Ah! I misunderstood. :)
 
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yogijen

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
44
Best case scenario, this is, that the jeweler is accepting the responsibility - not you.


me? I would. Especially if it’s expensive.........do you mind saying the ballpark price? I understand if not.


Ah! I misunderstood. :)

I don’t have the prices of the individual stones, but the overall ring is between $5K-$10K.
 

bright&shiny

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 11, 2009
Messages
541
What a beautiful ring! I am so curious to see what they find re: GIA. The stone nearest the ring seems to have the closest color and cut to the orignial. Good luck - it sounds as if they are working to make you whole and I certainly hope it ends that way.
 

yogijen

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
44
For reference, the original center stone is a natural light pink sapphire weighing 2.03 ct and is 7.5mm in diameter.

The current replacement stone options range from 1.46 - 1.85 ct, and 7.2 - 7.5mm. What do you think?

I am most picky about the color, cut, and clarity, so will likely have to give on the size of the replacement since there will not likely be a 'perfect' stone. In this case, should I be more concerned about the weight or diameter?

Or is this an impossible task? I don't want to waste theirs or my time :(2

ACS_0554.JPG

Update - I received the third potential replacement stone (stone above ring in previous post) and it looks different? Like they sent the wrong stone? Comparison photo below.

What do you think?

IMG_0219.jpg 3707C085-2BEF-4BE0-8655-0EDCFF0E6307.JPG
 
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peacechick

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
1,427
It doesn’t look like the same stone. But Portuguese cuts can be a bit tricky as you have to angle them exactly just right to see all the facets at once—otherwise, you’ll see tilt windows. Were you able to move the stone and look at it from different angles?

ETA: I would ask for a lab report and I would ask the company nicely to comp for the lab report as a way to make up for the stress and inconvenience caused to you.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,861
Looks like the jeweller sent the stone on the lower left instead of the one on the right?
 

yogijen

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
44
It doesn’t look like the same stone. But Portuguese cuts can be a bit tricky as you have to angle them exactly just right to see all the facets at once—otherwise, you’ll see tilt windows. Were you able to move the stone and look at it from different angles?

ETA: I would ask for a lab report and I would ask the company nicely to comp for the lab report as a way to make up for the stress and inconvenience caused to you.

Thank you! Yes, it was tricky to photograph bc there are so many tilt windows.

How would you describe the cut of the original stone? It has a vintage look to me, but I don’t think it’s an old mine or OEC cut.
 

peacechick

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
1,427
Thank you! Yes, it was tricky to photograph bc there are so many tilt windows.

How would you describe the cut of the original stone? It has a vintage look to me, but I don’t think it’s an old mine or OEC cut.

Hard to tell from the pictures due to the tilt angles, but it may have been a transitional cut since I see some petal-like shapes.
 

ItsMainelyYou

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2014
Messages
1,546
Padparadscha sapphires can change with UV wavelength (color fade/reviving). I was under the impression they don't change color- just hue- and it isn't permanent. Yellows can exhibit this as well.
I've never heard of pink stone shifting uniformly green like that from jewelry repairs.
I think lab reports on this stone and whatever replacement you choose are essential.
I'm very curious from an academic standpoint to find out what testing says and what the possible explanation is, because this could be a significant variety development to know about.
 

yogijen

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
44
@yogijen any update about why in the world your pink sapphire would change to olive green? I'm still so puzzled by that.

Padparadscha sapphires can change with UV wavelength (color fade/reviving). I was under the impression they don't change color- just hue- and it isn't permanent. Yellows can exhibit this as well.
I've never heard of pink stone shifting uniformly green like that from jewelry repairs.
I think lab reports on this stone and whatever replacement you choose are essential.
I'm very curious from an academic standpoint to find out what testing says and what the possible explanation is, because this could be a significant variety development to know about.

Something seems really strange here. Heating of sapphires to change color is done at a temperature higher than the melting point of gold, and for prolonged periods of time. If resizing got the stone that hot, then the gold prongs would have melted and dripped onto the bench.

Unfortunately I don’t have an update yet on the original center stone and why it changed color. They have not removed it from the setting yet, since we are still looking for a replacement. They have been shipping the ring intact along with the replacement options so I could compare the size, cut, etc.

I will keep you all posted! I am very curious too.
 

pokerface

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 12, 2011
Messages
359
I think it looks nice, but I sure hope the replacement comes with a certificate. Unfortunately, I do not think you can trust the jeweler's source of stones, even if the jeweler himself seems to be acting in a reputable manner. I cannot wrap my mind around any conceivable scenario where the initial stone was a sapphire. I would be hesitant to complete this transaction until I had more answers.
 

MjK1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Messages
283
I think it looks nice, but I sure hope the replacement comes with a certificate. Unfortunately, I do not think you can trust the jeweler's source of stones, even if the jeweler himself seems to be acting in a reputable manner. I cannot wrap my mind around any conceivable scenario where the initial stone was a sapphire. I would be hesitant to complete this transaction until I had more answers.

So much this...I would be suspicious...and extremely upset...
 
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