REGISTERED MAIL is not as safe as we think!

[Dreamer_D]

All I know from past experience is that you have to provide a receipt for what you paid if you make a claim. So insuring for a lot more than you paid wouldn't exactly make sense unless you did perhaps have a good independent appraisal. Not sure how they would handle that, but it would be good to know.

I suppose if it is something you sell, then a bill of sale would work too?

 

[TC1987]

It ASTOUNDS me that someone working in a job like that, someone who NEEDS that job to not be cut due to funding, would risk their future employability trying to get inside a package. And since it's registered, there should be a name on it every time it was touched, so hopefully they can identify the culprit from that list.

Maybe the US Mail is not handled exclusively by postal service employees. Back in the late '80s, the parents of one of my friends owned a trucking firm. They got the contract to haul mail from the local service center to Pittsburgh and Cleveland. Probably it's still done that way.

 

[madelise]

Wow, this is scary. I'm glad that the diamond wasn't taken though. I've had many packages, both by USPS and UPS, disappear. It's frustrating and violating.. I'm sorry this has happened.

Please let us know what the Postmaster says! I hope they don't blow it off..

 

[ChrisES]

Of course it isn't safe - this is the real world for goodness sake! Pack your stuff correctly, insure your stuff when shipping, DO raise hell with the Post Office and threaten to sue (or even sue) but at the end of the day...risk is a real thing that you have to accept!!!

 

[ForteKitty]

Haha, seriously, Chris? No shit this is the real world, and people are scumbags. This was just a warning to people here because vendors often advise people to send packages via registered mail because it's the "safest way". You dont have to get all bitchy.

 

[TravelingGal]

Wow FK, good to know! I am going to the city of industry for a meeting in the near future...let me know if you need me to courier anything for you!!!

 

[Missy]

That really sucks FK. Thanks for letting us know. We cannot even trust the safety of the mail. Unbelievable!
I am so glad your OEC made it safely to Athenaworth (thanks to your excellent packing skills)!

 

[Missy]

Wow, this is scary. I'm glad that the diamond wasn't taken though. I've had many packages, both by USPS and UPS, disappear. It's frustrating and violating.. I'm sorry this has happened.

Please let us know what the Postmaster says! I hope they don't blow it off..

It is scary! I guess there is no safe way and I would now hesitate to do long distance work if it involved sending my diamond via mail (USPS, UPS, or FedEx).

 

[ChrisES]

Haha, seriously, Chris? No shit this is the real world, and people are scumbags. This was just a warning to people here because vendors often advise people to send packages via registered mail because it's the "safest way". You dont have to get all bitchy.

Whoa, b word came out. I don't think I was that snarky...I certainly didn't mean to be.

I wasn't commenting on the OP so much as some responses, of the "omg this is the worst thing ever" variety. It's not the worst thing ever, and in fact the stone wasn't even lost. People do in fact steal things. Depending on the value of goods taken, theft is often a felony. The mail is not inviolate. People should chill out.

 

[denverappraiser]

I'm glad you packed well and the thief didn't get the goods.

For what it's worth, I still maintain that registered mail is the safest way for an individual to send something from one US address to another. That's not the same as being without risk. In the case of unmounted diamonds, they are the only carrier with insurance limits that are above paltry. As I recall the limit at UPS, for example, is $500. Jewelry is a little better but not all that much. That said, I also agree with the above warnining that they are decidedly difficult when it comes to handling claims and they will generally want to reimburse your cost, if that much, and that's after a drawn out fight. Most of the standard jewelry insurance companies will cover items lost in transit by the popular carriers (UPS, FedEx, USPS, DHL et al) unless they decide you are at fault and their claims procedure is almost always better.

Packing is a big key and it saved the goods in this case. It's also helpful to use a fairly big box. The size of an adult shoebox is a good reference. This makes it difficult for a worker to surepticiously slip the whole thing in a pocket and walk away with it. Obviously avoid words like 'diamond', 'gem', 'jeweler', etc on the outside of the package.

 

[ChrisES]

I'm glad you packed well and the thief didn't get the goods.

For what it's worth, I still maintain that registered mail is the safest way for an individual to send something from one US address to another. That's not the same as being without risk. In the case of unmounted diamonds, they are the only carrier with insurance limits that are above paltry. As I recall the limit at UPS, for example, is $500. Jewelry is a little better but not all that much. That said, I also agree with the above warnining that they are decidedly difficult when it comes to handling claims and they will generally want to reimburse your cost, if that much, and that's after a drawn out fight. Most of the standard jewelry insurance companies will cover items lost in transit by the popular carriers (UPS, FedEx, USPS, DHL et al) unless they decide you are at fault and their claims procedure is almost always better.

Packing is a big key and it saved the goods in this case. It's also helpful to use a fairly big box. The size of an adult shoebox is a good reference. This makes it difficult for a worker to surepticiously slip the whole thing in a pocket and walk away with it. Obviously avoid words like 'diamond', 'gem', 'jeweler', etc on the outside of the package.

This is the point I would have made had I not been distracted. Just because it isn't 100% foolproof doesn't mean it's not the best way to ship something.

 

[ForteKitty]

Someone from my local office (not the one that shipped out the package, but the one in my city of residence) called me back today, and referred me to http://www.uspsoig.gov/investigation.htm to file a report. They said internal fraud/theft is handled by that group. The guy from the local office also said that each registered mail bag (w/ packages inside) is kept under lock and key, and they get their own cage at the sorting facility. Every person is "supposed" to sign in. He was surprised at how brazen this person was, given it was a very short distance from the shipping facility to the sorting facility.

My package only had my name and address, her name and address, and the necessary barcodes from the registred mail and delivery confirmation labels. Nothing else. My guess is that they looked at the postage label which includes insurance fees, and determined that something expensive was inside.

Bastard.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Someone from my local office (not the one that shipped out the package, but the one in my city of residence) called me back today, and referred me to http://www.uspsoig.gov/investigation.htm to file a report. They said internal fraud/theft is handled by that group. The guy from the local office also said that each registered mail bag (w/ packages inside) is kept under lock and key, and they get their own cage at the sorting facility. Every person is "supposed" to sign in. He was surprised at how brazen this person was, given it was a very short distance from the shipping facility to the sorting facility.

My package only had my name and address, her name and address, and the necessary barcodes from the registred mail and delivery confirmation labels. Nothing else. My guess is that they looked at the postage label which includes insurance fees, and determined that something expensive was inside.

Bastard.

strange as it may sound but sometime it is better not to insure an high value package, b/c the postage label itself will signal the thief to "steal me", with or w/o insurance all registered mails will be handled the same way.

 

[oldminer]

Postal regulations make it mandatory to declare the actual value of the shipment regardless of how much insurance coverage is offered. They insure up to $25,000 but if you send a higher value package it is required to declare the correct value and to pay the added handling fees. Never underdeclare the value of registered mail. It is the law and is not subject to personal opinions to the contrary. It seems very arbitrary and I agree, but that is the rule and it is to be followed. Failure to declare full value voids any insurance coverage and leaves you owing for any past underdeclared value shipments. They have plenty of time and lawyers to make life miserable.....

I have collected registered mail losses three times in 43 years. We sent thousands of shipment for over thirty years every year and had an exceptionally low loss ratio. No matter how screwed up this one example is, registered mail is nearly a 100% safe bet. Definitely, take the time to double box, pack correctly and follow all the rules. You can then count on being covered.

 

[Ravinmad]

that is a catch 22, dont insure so its not a red flag, but then you take a risk. Insure and put your package on someones radar.

Smith and Wesson protects my property 6 nights a week, you pick which 6 nights

 

[Dancing Fire]

Postal regulations make it mandatory to declare the actual value of the shipment regardless of how much insurance coverage is offered. They insure up to $25,000 but if you send a higher value package it is required to declare the correct value and to pay the added handling fees. Never underdeclare the value of registered mail. It is the law and is not subject to personal opinions to the contrary. It seems very arbitrary and I agree, but that is the rule and it is to be followed. Failure to declare full value voids any insurance coverage and leaves you owing for any past underdeclared value shipments. They have plenty of time and lawyers to make life miserable.....

Dave
that doesn't make any sense...how much should i declare if i were to mail a 100 yrs old B&W pic of my grandma?...

 

[ForteKitty]

Postal regulations make it mandatory to declare the actual value of the shipment regardless of how much insurance coverage is offered. They insure up to $25,000 but if you send a higher value package it is required to declare the correct value and to pay the added handling fees. Never underdeclare the value of registered mail. It is the law and is not subject to personal opinions to the contrary. It seems very arbitrary and I agree, but that is the rule and it is to be followed. Failure to declare full value voids any insurance coverage and leaves you owing for any past underdeclared value shipments. They have plenty of time and lawyers to make life miserable.....

I have collected registered mail losses three times in 43 years. We sent thousands of shipment for over thirty years every year and had an exceptionally low loss ratio. No matter how screwed up this one example is, registered mail is nearly a 100% safe bet. Definitely, take the time to double box, pack correctly and follow all the rules. You can then count on being covered.

Dave,

What happens if the diamond's original sold price is $10,000, but I only paid $4000 when I bought it from ebay, and I sold it for $6000, and the appraisal says $12,000? (This was NOT the price of the diamond in this topic!)

eta: this isn't a trick question. With the increase in diamond prices lately, many people's diamonds are worth a lot more now, so their resale value is naturally higher. Trying to figure out what is the right thing to do when insuring items. The PO seems to think that i can insure it for whatever I want, as long as it's not more than the item's value. (whatever $ it is)

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Definitely interested in the answer to this question...I have only had one very small insurance claim for a handpainted porcelain tea set I bought my daughter, and I was told to provide my sales receipt. That would be scary indeed for items such as diamonds that have increased in value.

 

[chel180]

This tale is a horror story that will certainly have me packaging my things with more care!

From now on I vow I will use lots of packaging, put at least 3 packages/pouches inside each other, not identify the package with any words that hint whats inside, tape it really well and make sure I take any extra insurance options.

 

[oldminer]

In my professional opinion, a vintage photo without an appraised value is a piece of paper worth very little or nothing. If you take on the expense of insuring it, the Postal inspectors will make you produce proof of the value. They will pay you according to your ability to comply with their process. If you can't prove it, you will not collect.

If you have a property originally costing $4000 and now worth $10000 and you have paperwork to back it up and have insured it for $10000 you are good to go. If you have your original $4000 receipt and no valid quality description of the diamond from which to create a hypothetical report to go along with your $10000 insurance, you will get $4000. If you have no quality description to make the diamond worth more than the original cost on your receipt, then figure you'll get no more than $4000 and it likely is a waste of money to insure it for more. The chance of it getting lost is nearly zero, so over insuring is not worth the effort and cost.

If you have no evidenc of value and no evidence of inheritance or purchase, then you have a difficult time collecting anything no matter how high the coverage you paid for. Establish the value in writing before you ship a valuable item so that you can insure it for a valid replacement cost.

 

[Circe]

FK and AW - that is both scary and infuriating. Just because a thing isn't The Worst Thing in the World doesn't mean it can't be upsetting.

When shipping, I do think doing it the way the big boys do it is the way to go .... just got a package from JBEG, and it was like a matroshka, a box within a padded envelope within a box within another box. There is no way I can imagine anybody claiming all those layers were damaged "in transit," and thus, should anything happen, absolutely no way to deny a claim.

Also interested in what to declare, btw - no one has ever asked me for proof when I've shipped, but it's always good to know the policy ....

 

[Ravinmad]

Laws are funny things, they are almost appear benign and meaningless until they effect you personally in a legal or finicial way ask anyone when dealing with the tax code, or estate issues, etc.

Sadly, the statement below sums it up.

The letter of the law it typically black and white, yet, we all live in various shades of grey.

 

[LibbyLA]

Circe,

You won't have to prove value until and unless you file a claim. You can insure it for whatever you want to, but the USPS is going to do everything it can to keep from paying you, and they will pay you only for what you can prove that something is worth.

I dealt with them once when they damaged a shipment of books. The original box must have been ruined because the books were tossed in a box that was way too big (the person who sent them to me was a genius at filling a box to the brim with books so I know she didn't send them in a box three times too large), filled with junk mail and flyers.

The mailer insured them and had a list of the books so I was able to identify which ones were missing. I scoured amazon.com for used ones and some were hard to find. I bought the cheapest ones. The USPS tried to get out of paying shipping for the books. I was outraged that I could have purchased brand new books at list price from a local bookstore and they'd have been fine with that, but they didn't want to pay shipping even though that's what it took to make me "whole" to get the books to me and the total of the books and shipping was still a lot less than new books would have cost.

I hope I NEVER have to deal with a claim with USPS again. It was a nightmare.

liz

 

[slg47]

FK and AW - that is both scary and infuriating. Just because a thing isn't The Worst Thing in the World doesn't mean it can't be upsetting.

When shipping, I do think doing it the way the big boys do it is the way to go .... just got a package from JBEG, and it was like a matroshka, a box within a padded envelope within a box within another box. There is no way I can imagine anybody claiming all those layers were damaged "in transit," and thus, should anything happen, absolutely no way to deny a claim.

Also interested in what to declare, btw - no one has ever asked me for proof when I've shipped, but it's always good to know the policy ....

pics???

 

[denverappraiser]

Unfortunately, unlike 'real' insurance, the USPS has no vested interest in cooperating with you. You're regular insurer also has your house, your car, your boat and whatever. If you decide your insurer is unreasonable over a relatively small claim they stand to lose quite a bit of future business with you. Even JM stands to lose you and possibly your friends if they annoy you with their claims procedure. USPS has no such qualms. The less they pay and the longer they drag it out, the better it is (for them). Most people insure high value packages rather infrequently and your regular postal business is mostly unaffected if you're ticked at the postal inspector.

 

[Dreamer_D]

As additional food for thought: If you have your jewelery insured with Jewelers Mutual, and perhaps other carriers as well, they cover your item for loss during transit in the post to a jeweler, and perhaps in other shipping scenerios where it is staying in your ownership. BUT if you are selling the item, they will not cover you; that falls under the voluntary parting clause. So if you are shipping to a jeweler there is little worry or risk. If you are selling, IMO, you do your best to document things and if it does not work out, that is the price of doing business (i.e., you are self-insured). I suppose it is up to each individual whether that risk makes selling worth their while.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Circe,

You won't have to prove value until and unless you file a claim. You can insure it for whatever you want to, but the USPS is going to do everything it can to keep from paying you, and they will pay you only for what you can prove that something is worth.


I hope I NEVER have to deal with a claim with USPS again. It was a nightmare.

liz

yep, that's what all my Postal worker friend say.now imagine if this was a $10k claim. they'll say "prove it"!!