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Red Spinel-Engagement Ring Mishap-Advice Needed-Thanks

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UkneekFreak

Rough_Rock
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Jan 24, 2005
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Hello All :)

This forum has proved to be very useful for me in the past, and I really need any advice I can get at the moment. After debating over what kind of stone I wanted in my engagement ring, I choose a red spinel. I absolutely adore the red spinel, and my fiance and I were going to have one made by Bijoux Extrodinaire. I wish we would have stayed with them. My fiance is still in shock as to how much engagement rings cost, and he is all for saving money.

We found a ring with a 1.98 carat red spinel and four side diamonds (2 on each side) equaling out to 0.35 carats in a platinum setting for $1,495 at a local consignment/estate/antique store in Keene, NH. We looked over the ring closely before deciding to buy it, and did not notice any defects at all. However, after it had been returned to the store from being resized and we had gone to pick it up, we noticed a chip on the bottom side of the stone and a large crack/inclusion inside of it. The stone looked brownish in the sunlight. The sizing was all wrong, and too big. Needless to say, I was in tears, and the store offered to send it back to the goldsmith (whose name they would not share with me) who originally made the ring. It has been over a week, and we continue to call them.

Apparently, the goldsmith still has not found a replacement stone, and has only just begun to look for one in an appropriate size for the ring setting. I tried to let the lady at the store know that the ring size felt more like an 8 (I take a 7.5), but she was only willing to have it resized down on-fourth size. I am so upset over this, and we really wanted to have the ring present when we told our families about our engagement. I wish the store could give us a definite timeline as to when and if we will get the ring back. I feel like they are not being completely honest with us (they did take a look at the ring under a microscope before initially giving it to us, and did not mention the chip and large inclusion). I know that red spinels are a type II, in that they can be somewhat included, but the inclusion did not look crystal like, it looked more like a crack in the stone itself. My fiance did like the ring, but admits that he like the price tag a whole lot. I also do not like the idea that we will not even get to select or see the replacement stone, and I am concerned with the fact that red spinels can run into thousands of dollars. My concern is that the goldsmith will find the cheapest stone possible to replace it with, and that saddens me quite a lot.

My fiance would like to wait to see what they say, but I really want an engagement ring now, seeing as how we are getting married in nearly a year. We would like to get a refund at this point, but the store has been very vague about their return policy, and has not openly said we could even get a refund (their receipt says all sales final). Plus, I believe that they took our final receipt from us or it has been misplaced (so we will need a cancelled check to even attempt to get a refund).

This is a total mess, and my fiance has been a bit apprehensive about looking for a replacement. I would love to go back to Bijoux Extrodinaire and get my ring through there, but it is so dificult when we are out $1545 (the store charged us $50 for resizing). Can anyone give me advice as to how to deal with this situation, and as to where we might be able to find a reputable (store or online) dealer to find a red spinel ring? At this point, I just really want a ring and to have this issue resolved. We are so upset, and any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for all your help.
 

UkneekFreak

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 24, 2005
Messages
33
Dear Feydakin,
I just wanted to thank you for all your help. I really appreciate it. :) The problem with the resizing is mainly due to the fact that the sales lady is not really listening to what I have to say about the sizing of the ring as it is currently (I believe it was resized to a bigger size than originally ordered). The setting is plain, and can be resized easily. The real problem is with the red spinel stone itself. It has a chip on the side of it and a major crack inside of the stone. Could you please tell me how difficult it would be to find a red spinel stone itself? The entire ring cost $1,495, but I have seen red spinel stones go up to more than $7,000 (just the stone itself). We didn''t get the chance to have it appraised before returning it, but maybe we should have. Thanks again for your help.
 

UkneekFreak

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 24, 2005
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33
Also, the stone looked brownish once we brought it outside. Is this normal for a red spinel? I thought I read that the better quality ones should not have a brownish hue to it. Please let me know. Thanks :)
 

spinel

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 4, 2004
Messages
146
Pure red spinels show much more stronger red when you take them outside under shadow of sunlight. Brown and brownish red spinels are more brown under incandescant light. These spinels are abundant in nature and have low market value in general. You should not have much difficulty to find a replacement.
 

MJO

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 3, 2004
Messages
861
What size and shape is the stone you are looking for to replace this one? I would not buy from Thaigem as someone here has suggested. I bought from them years ago and was not pleased with half the stones I received and I bought the expensive ones. I had paid over $15,000 for some of their stones and they were not as pictured. I did just receive a lot of red spinels from a dealer I know. He sends them to me for me to pick what I like. There is a nicely cut red Burmese 6.2mm round 1.5ct stone If you are looking for one. It is very reasonably priced.
 

MJO

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 3, 2004
Messages
861
You are correct that you never recommended to buy from a particular seller. My answer did not come out the way I wanted since I was in a hurry. What I was trying to say is don''t bother looking at the Thaigem site. Most of the pictures are retouched and color enhanced.
 

movie zombie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
11,879
and if you paid with visa or mastercard, you can file a dispute as long as you do it within the time frame and in the way specified by the card. check into it: its better than paying for something you don''t want. this is something i would only do if in fact i could not get complete satisfaction from the seller.

peace, movie zombie
 

Ymanda

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 25, 2005
Messages
30
Hello,

I wanted to say something about the color of spinels.

Red spinels have different Hue depending on their origin. Red spinel from Burma are more Pinkish-red than brownish-red. But they are sometimes expensive, especially those from Namya.


p03130_1.jpg
p03130_2.jpg


Red spinel, Mogok 2.29 ct $1550


You can find dark red spinels too in Mogok with also that brownish color. But the price should never be such expensive even with a very good clarity:

p04487_1.jpg
p04487_2.jpg

Dark Red spinel, spinel Mogok 3.32 ct $55


Here is an exemple of Red spinel from Namya, Burma. You can see the eceptional color of spinels from this particular origin. And look also the price wich is quite expensive even if the clarity is aveerage. You can see an inclusion in the pavillon even without enlargin the image.

p09033_1.jpg
p09033_2.jpg


Red spinel from Namya, Burma 3.3 ct $1650



A last exemple of spinel, very good color but the picture is not good on the site:

p03129_1.jpg
p03129_2.jpg


Red spinel Mogok, 3.55 ct $2.665


CONCLUSION: Red spinel of fine quality are very expensive. If you find one with very nice picture, good color and clarity, but very cheap, BE CAREFULL !!! Something''s wrong



Now talking about the real color of a stone you find on internet. I was at the ICA Congress 2005 and we had a presentation of the GemeWizard which is already used be GIA as a standard to teach how to describe colors in their school.
Now everybody knows that GIA institute is more skilled on diamonds.
But this program allows you to send a color code + a generated (A.I. constructed) image with the same shape by mail. It''s a kind of electronic Master Stones whish would be used to describe (and show) as much as possible the real color of a stone.

I think that i will be a nice tool even on a forums to talk about colors. I don''t know if they already sell this program and it''s not supposed to be perfect, just a standart so we can make sure we all tallk about the same thing.
Color is such a subjective topic....
 

spinel

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 4, 2004
Messages
146
Ymanda, GIA started to sell that software at Tucson Convention Center during the show. The price is $280. It is well designed, i am impressed.
(will be offline for a while ... boarding air flight for Bangkok then Saigon)
 

NyssaLynne

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
353
Date: 2/27/2005 12:29:18 AM
Author: MJO
What I was trying to say is don''t bother looking at the Thaigem site. Most of the pictures are retouched and color enhanced.
I have purchased a few things from Thaigem and only one was not as I expected.
 

innerkitten

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 1, 2003
Messages
5,623
Is it my computer? I can''t see Ymands photos.
 

MJO

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 3, 2004
Messages
861
>I have purchased a few things from Thaigem and only one was not as I expected.
Lynne~<

Hi Lynne,

You have been very lucky.
 

valeria101

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 29, 2003
Messages
15,808
Date: 2/27/2005 5:14
6.gif
6 PM
Author: MJO
Hello All,

I have started a color gemstones group on yahoo to post pictures of gemstones

YahooError.JPG
 

widget

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2004
Messages
4,255
Ukneekfreak:

I sure feel for you over the mess with the spinel ring...

I would DEMAND my money back if it comes back in any way less than perfect!
29.gif


Good luck, and keep us posted...

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UkneekFreak

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 24, 2005
Messages
33
Thanks for all your help, everyone. :) I''ll keep you posted.
 

Ymanda

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 25, 2005
Messages
30
Date: 2/27/2005 4:43:20 PM
Author: innerkitten
Is it my computer? I can''t see Ymands photos.
I don''t know what could be the problem. Maybe it comes from the fact that those pictures come directly from a website that is hosted in Thailand. You should try to go there, just to see if you can access this domain.

I know that people from Burma for exemple cannot access some websites in Thailand. This is a mesure from the Burmese governement to avoid prices to increase too much. They don''t want Burmese people to know the selling price in Thailand of the stones that come diretly from the Burmese mines.
Sick and sad reality...
 

Ymanda

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 25, 2005
Messages
30
Date: 2/27/2005 10:55:49 AM
Author: spinel
Ymanda, GIA started to sell that software at Tucson Convention Center during the show. The price is $280. It is well designed, i am impressed.
(will be offline for a while ... boarding air flight for Bangkok then Saigon)
It has been a real pleasure to welcome you in my office in Bangkok. I would have liked to give you more time and i am impatient to see more vietnameses spinels and sapphire from you.
I understand now why you call yourself spinel..
emwink.gif


You guys should listen to him talking about spinel, there is much to learn from him on that topic. I will show you very soon a "Padparadscha color like" Spinel that he cut himself.
Beautiful, clean... custom cut ...
 

loupe

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
75
There is no such thing as a Padparascha spinel. Stop misleading the public by misuse of this term. There is no padaparascha anything other than a very rare color of sapphire.

loupe
 

widget

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 12, 2004
Messages
4,255
My goodness, loupe... take it easy!

If you notice, Ymanda had "quotes" around the word padparadscha. I'm sure she was trying to mislead no one....and was referring to color.

A lot of the "public" who frequent these forums are pretty knowledgeable...and know what a padparadscha (gem) is...

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Ymanda

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 25, 2005
Messages
30
Date: 3/2/2005 12:30:14 PM
Author: loupe
There is no such thing as a Padparascha spinel. Stop misleading the public by misuse of this term. There is no padaparascha anything other than a very rare color of sapphire.

loupe

I'm sorry loupe if i did not take enough precautions.

So i changed it to "Padparadscha color like" Spinel.
And i will show you a picture for you to understand why i used this term.

I understand that some people are very sensitive on this subject, but as Widget just said we use the " " character to refer to a color that everybody knows.
Plus, since i don't use that term to label the stone in my shop there should not be an problem right?

But you are right, some would get confused if they come on pricescope to learn more about gemstones.

Sorry again
20.gif


PS: Ok loupe, i just had a look on your website and on your other threads. I understand now why you are so accurate (i would say picky), but it's good to have people reminding me that i have to be careful talking about gemstones on forums.
 
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