Red andesine

[Anita38]

Hello.

Knowing how much I love red gemstones, my husband gifted me a red andesine ring. Unlike him, I know that red andesine's colour is not natural. I know it's born of the diffusion of copper into what was originally yellow labradorite stones. I have read about all the controversy surrounding red andesine. So, my question is: does a red andesine ring have any value beyond a sentimental one given that it was a gift from a loved one?

 

[marymm]

Well, red andesine is being offered for sale and people are buying it -- unknown what your husband paid and whether it was a fair or inflated price for an artificially treated piece of feldspar (labradorite) -- and there is the value of the setting itself (silver? gold? melee? quality? weight?) -- but yes, the sentimental value likely far outweighs its monetary value. It sounds like you have a sweet and thoughtful husband, and I hope you enjoy wearing the ring!

 

[Autumn in New England]

Hello and welcome to the forum! This happens to all of us... I remember a good friend gifting me red "turquoise" years ago, knowing how I love the gem, and thinking this was some exotic variety. Of course, red "turquoise" is merely dyed howlite. I thanked her profusely and still cherish the pendant to this day.

With regard to your question of value, certainly it holds some. But, depending on the size, maybe around $10/ct. The stone is also only a 6 on the mohs scale, brittle, and has perfect cleavage. So it must be worn with care if set into a ring.

I hope this helps! Have you told or do you plan on telling your husband? I would be torn as to whether to mention it...

 

[Autumn in New England]

It sounds like you have a sweet and thoughtful husband, and I hope you enjoy wearing the ring!

 

[PrecisionGem]

The Andesine controversy was a very heated one in the gem world back around 10 or more years ago. You had highly respected people like Hughes claiming the stones were coming from Tibet and all natural, then you had Robert James claiming they were heavily treated. It got really ugly and ended up in court.
I remember at the peak the gem shopping channels were telling people to get in on invest as the value will only go up. I see that people are still selling these in nice quality around $100 per ct., some less, some more. Some have claimed they have red stones from the Congo, but I have yet to hear from any rough dealers in the area to be aware of any being found.

Then there are the natural red Oregon sunstones. These are not treated, and in in fine quality and be $300 or $400 per ct. or more.

All these stones are feldspar, which is most commonly found in pale almost colorless yellow, and also grayish blue crystals. The Oregon sunstones are the most interesting as they can have strands of copper schiller that can be either very visible and interesting or not visible to the naked eye.

 

[Autumn in New England]

The Andesine controversy was a very heated one in the gem world back around 10 or more years ago. You had highly respected people like Hughes claiming the stones were coming from Tibet and all natural, then you had Robert James claiming they were heavily treated. It got really ugly and ended up in court.
I remember at the peak the gem shopping channels were telling people to get in on invest as the value will only go up. I see that people are still selling these in nice quality around $100 per ct., some less, some more. Some have claimed they have red stones from the Congo, but I have yet to hear from any rough dealers in the area to be aware of any being found.

Then there are the natural red Oregon sunstones. These are not treated, and in in fine quality and be $300 or $400 per ct. or more.

All these stones are feldspar, which is most commonly found in pale almost colorless yellow, and also grayish blue crystals. The Oregon sunstones are the most interesting as they can have strands of copper schiller that can be either very visible and interesting or not visible to the naked eye.

Oh yes, I remember JTV, in particular, being in hot water about their treatment disclosures regarding this stone! Though I believe their mistake was an honest one, and they were being mislead by those close to the mines. Still, it's their responsibility to be 100% certain of their claims. Since that time, they've really upped their game in that respect, which I appreciate.

Back to pricing... GemSelect is selling their clean/transparent and more saturated stones for about $39/ct. They're selling their lower clarity/translucent (faceted) and less saturated stones for about $13/carat. So, of course, color, clarity, and weight will all factor into the value. Also, the larger the stone, usually the higher the price per carat, all things being equal (because larger stones are typically rarer).

Andesine Labradorite for Sale | Certified Gemstones in Stock

Buy andesine labradorite gemstones wholesale online, shop andesine labradorite gems for jewelry, red, rose and pink andesine labradorite stones at GemSelect.

www.gemselect.com

2.02 carat Red Andesine Labradorite Gemstone | Pear Shape loose Andesine Labradorite from Congo | Natural Gem, ID: 334601

2.02 carat Red Andesine Labradorite Gemstone, Pear Shape loose Andesine Labradorite from Congo, Natural Gem, 10 x 6.9 mm, Andesine Labradorite Wholesale - Shipping Natural Gemstones Worldwide

www.gemselect.com

 

[PrecisionGem]

I think those stones you posted above are very low quality stones, hence the low price.
You have this guy selling red Andesine for over $900 per ct.

There was a big scandal about the Andesine back when JTV was selling it by the bucket load, and then they Hughes make a trip to Tibet to find the mine. I think at the time Hughes was working for JTV. Of course they never did find the actual mine, it was just over the next hill, but they did find some feldspar. There was a whole website about this expedition and I think even on Pricescope back in 2010 a big discussion on how this trip proved they stones were real. Well that website is now no where to be found just like the mine.

It got really ugly back then on another popular forum about gemology, and most gemologist took sides with Hughes and they even had a group picture taken at a Gem-A meeting all wearing hockey masks. They had some funky name for this group of gemologist who were going after James for exposing the treated material, I can't remember the name, but it was really pretty bitter with everyone involved.

It's all gotten really quite now, the websites 'proving' the material is real are gone, and lots of people spent a ton of money buying these stones from the TV gem channels.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I think those stones you posted above are very low quality stones, hence the low price.
You have this guy selling red Andesine for over $900 per ct.

There was a big scandal about the Andesine back when JTV was selling it by the bucket load, and then they Hughes make a trip to Tibet to find the mine. I think at the time Hughes was working for JTV. Of course they never did find the actual mine, it was just over the next hill, but they did find some feldspar. There was a whole website about this expedition and I think even on Pricescope back in 2010 a big discussion on how this trip proved they stones were real. Well that website is now no where to be found just like the mine.

It got really ugly back then on another popular forum about gemology, and most gemologist took sides with Hughes and they even had a group picture taken at a Gem-A meeting all wearing hockey masks. They had some funky name for this group of gemologist who were going after James for exposing the treated material, I can't remember the name, but it was really pretty bitter with everyone involved.

It's all gotten really quite now, the websites 'proving' the material is real are gone, and lots of people spent a ton of money buying these stones from the TV gem channels.

Can you please link the seller of these 2 stones? Do they disclose the treatment? I can't imagine diffused feldpars would be selling realistically for these prices. $3,000 for a 3.5ct. stone? Diffused sapphires don't even sell for that amount! Here's a 4.5ct. one from AJS that is only $2,900... and their prices are known for being high. Wow. You learn something new every day!

Yellow Sapphire - 4.50 carats at AJS Gems

Buy high quality natural Yellow Sapphire at wholesale prices at AJS Gems.

www.ajsgem.com

 

[Autumn in New England]

I think those stones you posted above are very low quality stones, hence the low price.
You have this guy selling red Andesine for over $900 per ct.

There was a big scandal about the Andesine back when JTV was selling it by the bucket load, and then they Hughes make a trip to Tibet to find the mine. I think at the time Hughes was working for JTV. Of course they never did find the actual mine, it was just over the next hill, but they did find some feldspar. There was a whole website about this expedition and I think even on Pricescope back in 2010 a big discussion on how this trip proved they stones were real. Well that website is now no where to be found just like the mine.

It got really ugly back then on another popular forum about gemology, and most gemologist took sides with Hughes and they even had a group picture taken at a Gem-A meeting all wearing hockey masks. They had some funky name for this group of gemologist who were going after James for exposing the treated material, I can't remember the name, but it was really pretty bitter with everyone involved.

It's all gotten really quite now, the websites 'proving' the material is real are gone, and lots of people spent a ton of money buying these stones from the TV gem channels.

So I did find that website (gemfrance). I've never heard of it, but I'm in the US. They don't disclose the treatments, and all of the certs are from 2005 (AIGS), again with no treatments mentioned. Me thinks they got taken for a ride back during the andesine boom and are trying to recoup their losses. On ebay, even the highest priced ones of similar quality are selling for a fraction of that per carat price.

ETA: Limited, but very poor reviews for this vendor too, so beware. Some mention the stones being "massively" overpriced with mediocre quality, and treated stones being represented as untreated. https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/gemfrance.com

 

[Autumn in New England]

OP, I just wanted to mention that we've been discussing the technical aspects of value here, and so we need to be transparent. But I don't want this in any way to take away from your enjoyment of the ring. In fact, I'd really love to see a photo, if you're so inclined. I think we can all agree that the piece holds a great deal of sentimental value (the best kind), and that your husband is a keeper.

 

[PrecisionGem]

So I did find that website (gemfrance). I've never heard of it, but I'm in the US. They don't disclose the treatments, and all of the certs are from 2005 (AIGS), again with no treatments mentioned. Me thinks they got taken for a ride back during the andesine boom and are trying to recoup their losses. On ebay, even the highest priced ones of similar quality are selling for a fraction of that per carat price.

ETA: Limited, but very poor reviews for this vendor too, so beware. Some mention the stones being "massively" overpriced with mediocre quality, and treated stones being represented as untreated. https://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/gemfrance.com

I thought the same thing about being taken for a ride.
I did find a picture of the esteemed gemologist that call themselves the Gobsmacked Gang. This was taken at a Gem-A meeting. These fellows claimed at one time that the Andesine from china was real and untreated. I think they have all gone silent on the issue now. Many of them in the hockey masks have been identified and are well known in the trade and quoted on this site.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I thought the same thing about being taken for a ride.
I did find a picture of the esteemed gemologist that call themselves the Gobsmacked Gang. This was taken at a Gem-A meeting. These fellows claimed at one time that the Andesine from china was real and untreated. I think they have all gone silent on the issue now. Many of them in the hockey masks have been identified and are well known in the trade and quoted on this site.

What in the world?! That's bananas... I mean what says transparency more than presenting evidence at a conference while wearing a Jason Vorhees mask. Creepy!

Aside from the deception, which I despise no matter the topic, I will say that this is a perfectly lovely stone in the redder tones with higher clarity. As long as the treatments are disclosed, and the stone is priced accordingly, I see nothing wrong with offering or owning it.

Thank you for the discussion and insight!

 

[Anita38]

Thank you for such a fascinating discussion. Well, my husband bought the red andesine ring online (from the website of a shopping channel, apparently) and we hadn't received it when I posted on this forum. We now have received it and, here is the interesting twist: it was incredibly low quality. It wasn't red but a very watered down orange that my mother actually said that from certain angles looked like it was brownish or caramel- coloured. My husband was furious and sent the ring back immediately. Has any of you ever seen a supposedly red andesine having a mild orange/ brownish/ caramel colour? I saw a number of photos of red andesine and none looked like that!

 

[Autumn in New England]

Thank you for such a fascinating discussion. Well, my husband bought the red andesine ring online (from the website of a shopping channel, apparently) and we hadn't received it when I posted on this forum. We now have received it and, here is the interesting twist: it was incredibly low quality. It wasn't red but a very watered down orange that my mother actually said that from certain angles looked like it was brownish or caramel- coloured. My husband was furious and sent the ring back immediately. Has any of you ever seen a supposedly red andesine having a mild orange/ brownish/ caramel colour? I saw a number of photos of red andesine and none looked like that!

Did it look something like this?

3.58ct Red Andesine Labradorite Gemstone | Oval Cut | 11.2 x 9.1 mm | GemSelect

3.58 ct Red Andesine Labradorite, 11.2 x 9.1 mm Oval Cut From Congo, Andesine Labradorite Wholesale - Shipping Natural Gemstones Worldwide

www.gemselect.com

That is commercial grade, which you'd want to avoid. Though treated, the higher quality stones are rather attractive.

It sounds like you sort of dodged a bullet, because you didn't seem all that enthused (as well-intentioned as your hubby is)! So now maybe you both can collaborate on a different stone/ring!!

 

[PrecisionGem]

You should look for a nice red Oregon sunstone. All natural, no treatment.

 

[Autumn in New England]

You should look for a nice red Oregon sunstone. All natural, no treatment.

Agreed! Or you may even want to branch out into garnets and spinels.

 

[CaseyLouLou]

Agreed! Or you may even want to branch out into garnets and spinels.

Heck, go for a ruby!!

 

[landscape]

Natural red Oregon Sunstone does exist, and some natural sunstones are richer in color than andesine, even as red as Burmese red spinel. I didn’t see the difference between natural red sunstone and copper-diffused andesine in the forum, so I opened another thread to discuss the difference between natural red sunstone and copper-diffused andesine.

Oregon Sunstone 12.8ct




copper-diffused andesine




difference between natural red sunstone and copper-diffused andesine.