Received my new RB! HELP!!!

[Christina...]

So, I received my new RB yesterday and initially was super happy, I loved the size, it was very clean face up, the color was great, and it is so very sparkly.......until you tip it just so and then I see what looks like a great big huge hole under the table. I'm assuming that it's leakage and had a concern about the idealscope image but the gemologist confirmed that what I thought was leakage was not and assured me that it was very bright and had great fire and scintilation. And it does when I have it on my finger, but when I take it off and look at it in front of a window or outside this big hole appears at a certain angle.

So, this is my very first round and I"m still getting to know her and I'm finally able to see first hand what I've only read about here for the past year, and I'm having trouble identifying what exactly this is, could it be fish eye, a chipped culet, or is it just plain leakage? Oh, and the area that I see the leak isn't even the area that I questioned on the IS. On the IS I questions the edge of the table, but IRL I see it dead center of the table, shouldn't that have shown up?

Anyway, I've posted the IS and photos of the what I'm seeing in the diamond. Hoping that you all can help me with your infinite knowledge! Like I said I really love the ring when it's on my finger, and of course thats where it's going to be most of the time but now that I KNOW its there....


edit: oh yeah...ignore the ugly prongs, I'm not impressed and it's going back for a makeover.

 

[yssie]

Normal It's table reflection, "size" depends on relative table size and pav depth - couple of articles discussing various artifacts
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ags-aset-40-768-pavilion-on-the-ledge.29977/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ags-aset-40-768-pavilion-on-the-ledge.29977/[/URL]
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/review_%E2%80%9Cfoundation%E2%80%9D_gia%E2%80%99s_new_cut_grade_system

 

[susimoo]

Christina,

Yssie beat me to it!
It is normal. I see it mine too.
I can't wait till you do a thread on SMTB so we can all share in your journey!!!!

Apologies about the thread I started last week. I was just excited for you and was eager to see your new beauty. I hope I didn't offend you.
Sorry!!

 

[Christina...]

Yssie, you're just so smart! Thanks for the links, I browsed them, but will go back and read them more thoroughly when I get a second.

The diamond is T 55 D 62.3 P 40.5 C 36 Star 50 and LGF 80. I love the high crown and tiny table as much as I hoped that I would , but would I have less table reflection in a stone that had shorter LGF and star facets (say 45/75) and pav angle of 40.8 crown 35? Like I said I don't notice the reflection when the ring is on my finger but now that I know it's there I feel like I'm always looking for it. Will the reflection cause the stone to have less light return in that spot? I apologize if these are all ridiculous questions!

 

[Christina...]

Christina,

Yssie beat me to it!
It is normal. I see it mine too.
I can't wait till you do a thread on SMTB so we can all share in your journey!!!!

Apologies about the thread I started last week. I was just excited for you and was eager to see your new beauty. I hope I didn't offend you.
Sorry!!

I'm not even sure which thread your referring to, so nope, I wasn't offended at all! Having an RB is sooo very much different than an asscher! Of course I knew that it would be, but it's taking more getting used to than I had thought. Do the majority of RB have table reflection or just stones with these particular angles? I'm wondering if I would be happier with a stone that I couldn't see this reflection??? Does it affect light return differently? From the links that Yssie posted it appears that the only difference is the direction that the light refracts, but that it still disperses through the top of the diamond.

 

[Christina...]

Christina,

Yssie beat me to it!
It is normal. I see it mine too.
I can't wait till you do a thread on SMTB so we can all share in your journey!!!!

Apologies about the thread I started last week. I was just excited for you and was eager to see your new beauty. I hope I didn't offend you.
Sorry!!

Oh my goodness! I'm so sorry that I missed your thread! I should be embarrassed not you! I totally was not trying to ignore you, I really truly didn't see it. You are so nice to have asked and even remembered that I was up to something, that's really thoughtful, thank you!

Well, so as you know, I am in the process. I really really want to love this stone, and as I mentioned, I really do 90% of the time. It does appear to have great light return, much much different from the asscher with it's big bold flashes, this one is much more constant and well, I guess busy...maybe that's what is taking some getting used to. But I love how my eye seems constantly drawn to what is happening on my finger, I didn't get that with my asscher.

The color is, well, I'm not sure what to say about the color. I went with a J and it was very bright and sunny yesterday when I received it and I was thrilled with how bright and white it looked. Today was rainy and dark and I can definitely see the warmth and it's much more noticeable than my I asscher. I don't think that I was expecting that, because it's a brilliant cut I sort of guessed that the color would be very similar, but I haven't been able to determine that yet either. It doesn't bother me at all, but I'm very happy that I didn't go with a K, I think that it would have been a touch too warm for me.

I'm very excited about how clean it is for an SI2, my asscher was a VVS1 so I was particularly concerned about seeing inclusions. So far I have resisted the urge to loupe it, although I was tempted when I thought that perhaps the reflection that I was seeing was a chipped girdle I can see a feather through the side but it's hidden by girdle reflection and it doesn't bother me at all. So, I can say that brilliants hide inclusions wonderfully!

I'm also surprised at how happy I am with the size of the diamond. It's a 1.20 and considerable larger than the 1.01 asscher. My husband was surprised at how much more coverage that it gave me, and I can say that it looks much nicer on my finger. Sort of like a perfectly fit pair of jeans, it just works. The plan was to upgrade one more time later in the year to a 1.75 or so, but I think that I really like this size right now, of course we all know how quickly DSS sets in. And it was super nice to hear DH say that he thinks another half ct of size would still look nice and not too large, so I know he's still on board for another upgrade if we decide to. I'm convinced he's a sadist! What man would want to go through all this drama again again???

And then the final step is going to be a custom setting, and we have a bunch of ideas and are coming closer to a design that we both like and we are getting restless to move ahead with that part of the process, so I think we will be submitting ideas and photos of what we are looking for and asking if it would be possible for the setting to be made to fit a slightly larger stone in the future without have to completely remake the ring, but who knows, lots and lots of questions to ask.

So thats were we are at. I'm so sorry that I missed your post, I really wasn't being rude! I'll start a SMTB thread as soon as I'm settled on this stone and my big huge gigantic ugly prongs are fixed!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Not leakage as other said. Table reflection. There are always strange little peccidillos about any cut. best not to be too critical

 

[susimoo]

Thank goodness!!!! I thought I had commited a faux pas!!!

I will not be buying any major purchases, stone wise for a long time, so I get very excited at other people's upgrades etc. Yours happened to catch my eye and iI was getting anxious to see what you chose!!!

I think you did very well!!!

I had a J/Si1 1.21 RB for all of about 4 weeks until my consigned (original) diamond sold (at GOG) and I got my current 1.7 I/VS2 RB.

I can relate to much of what you say in terms of colour and performance. This was after owning an L/VS2 AVC for about 8 months. So I noticed a huge amount of play in the diamond and was shocked that it did not look a great deal whiter than the L. (which I still miss!!!)

Live with it for a bit longer before you make any quick decisions. I have a funny feeling she will grow on you!!

Especially when people start to notice and give you lots of compliments!!!!


Look forward to more pictures!!!!

 

[Christina...]

I feel really dense right now, but I guess I'm still not understanding completely. If leakage causes you to be able to see through the diamond to whatever is behind it, then how is table reflection different than leakage? Through the hole seen in the picture I can see straight through the diamond.. Maybe I'm just over analyzing it, I just want to make sure that I won't be making a mistake if we keep this diamond.

 

[Christina...]

susimoo, it sounds like I'm following in your footsteps! We are considering a gorgeous halo for our stone too! I actually wanted to ask you. I love your wedding band, it's so pretty next to the pave in your ering, would you mind sharing the width of both bands? I'd love to stack a plain WG band with an eternity to match my ering.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I feel really dense right now, but I guess I'm still not understanding completely. If leakage causes you to be able to see through the diamond to whatever is behind it, then how is table reflection different than leakage? Through the hole seen in the picture I can see straight through the diamond.. Maybe I'm just over analyzing it, I just want to make sure that I won't be making a mistake if we keep this diamond.

You are not seeing though the diamond, it just looks like you are. You are seeing a reflection of the table facet off the pavilion, like a mirror reflecting another mirror.

 

[Christina...]

I feel really dense right now, but I guess I'm still not understanding completely. If leakage causes you to be able to see through the diamond to whatever is behind it, then how is table reflection different than leakage? Through the hole seen in the picture I can see straight through the diamond.. Maybe I'm just over analyzing it, I just want to make sure that I won't be making a mistake if we keep this diamond.

You are not seeing though the diamond, it just looks like you are. You are seeing a reflection of the table facet off the pavilion, like a mirror reflecting another mirror.

Now that I can understand! Thanks so much dreamer! I actually just placed a red toothbrush behind the hole I thought I was seeing through and it blocked light from entering the diamond but I couldn't see the red from the toothbrush. I feel much much better now, and also sort of like a kindergartener with my very scientific experiments.

 

[yssie]

All RBs will have it... it's a function of table size and pav depth (only).

Take a look at these (oh what wouldn't I do for DiamCalc sometimes...) - should show what I mean.

In the first pic first row only change is crown - table & pav (and lgf) are the same. Table reflection "size" constant.
Second row - alter either table size or pav depth, table refl "size" changes


Second pic - keep pav and crown constant (41.2, 33), change table size (56 on L vs. 62 on R)

 

[yssie]

All RBs will have it... it's a function of table size and pav depth (only).

Take a look at these (oh what wouldn't I do for DiamCalc sometimes...) - should show what I mean.

In the first pic first row only change is crown - table & pav (and lgf) are the same. Table reflection "size" constant.
Second row - alter either table size or pav depth, table refl "size" changes





Second pic - keep pav and crown constant (41.2, 33), change table size (56 on L vs. 62 on R)

 

[Christina...]

Thank you so much ladies! Yssie your pics were helpful, thank you! And when Dreamer put it all into super simple terms it started to click and I could finally convince myself that I wasn't truly seeing through the diamond. I had convinced myself that I could see my fingernail through it in one of the photos I took and I couldn't stop obesessing about it long enough to consider that it could be anything else. I think that I also got hung up knowing that I took a risk on this particular stone because I wanted the high crown and small table so I strayed outside of GIA excellent range, although after getting the sarin back it appears that it would be an AGS ideal candidate.

So, I'm feeling a lot better about it now, thank you all again! As always you were an enormous help!!

 

[bunnycat]

Glad you got your new stone Christina. I wasn't keeping up, though. Did you get to keep your asscher too? Or did that get traded up? I think it'd be great in a halo!

 

[SparklyOEC]

Congrats on getting your new stone! I'm excited to see how you set it (a halo would be amazing).

 

[John P]

The diamond looks great Christina.

(oh what wouldn't I do for DiamCalc sometimes...)

I was skimming this thread and thought you did well without it! ...But here you go.



Table reflection only becomes a negative/distraction in diamonds where the table goes over a certain size or the pavilion angle/depth become too steep. Christina's diamond has none of those issues.

It may be interesting to know diamond cutters have used table reflection to judge pavilion depth since long before we had modern tools or scanners capable of measuring tenths of degrees. It's how Henry Morse, Lazare Kaplan and others crafted their desired proportion sets decades ago.

 

[Christina...]

Thanks you all so much! We are both feeling so much more comfortable now that you have all explained to us what we are seeing. I had a chance to read your article last night too, John and it was very helpful. I knew deep down that PSers would let me purchase a dud!!! I appreciate all the confirmation and validation, now I can spend more time admiring my stone and less time analyzing it, after all that's why we bought it!! Now....on to the setting!

 

[Irishsparkles]

Christina.... I may be weird but I love large prongs in a 4 prong ring. I like the square look it gives the diamond but that's me. Who makes this setting? Oh and the diamond looks beautiful!

 

[Christina...]

Irishsparkles, sorry I didn't see your reply until just now, and thank you for the compliments! I got the setting from James Allen when I purchased my asscher last year, it's the .32 french pave, I had them replace the head to fit the RB. I had initially asked them to make the head with claw style prongs but their fabrication department refused, stating that they would be too small and suggested I try a V tip, but I didn't like the looks of the head they suggested. I think that I'm going to have my local jeweler file the prongs for me at some point, but we are also beginning the process of a custom setting so who knows, maybe I won't bother.