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Real Housewives of NJ

nkarma

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Messages
644
Italiahaircolor|1305729537|2924780 said:
I agree with Ashley being a spoiled brat. She's awful. But, that's par for the course, she's always been that way. It's the total sense of entitlement that is her ultimate downfall. She knows her parents have some money and she thinks or believes that their lifestyle should include her carte-blanche. She wants to be "kept" and live in NYC, work at a PR firm and make no money, but continue to live that 5-star lifestyle a la Sex In The City. That's not the real world and I think Chris (that's his name, right?) was very fair when he said he would pay for her commuting, but she had to work for the life she wants. Everyone has too and she's no exception.

It's also my understanding that Ashley has no "formal education" in so much as she went to college, got a degree...so, you KNOW that her working for the PR agency (and the one she's working for is pretty high brow) was a connection the show and her parents gifted her. She didn't get that on her own merit. Which, of course, is just another form of a hand out. It's not really teaching her anything. She's not out there pounding the NYC pavement looking for an "in"...she just had one handed to her. OF COURSE she's not going to give it her all and show up everyday to prove her worth. Why would she? Her experience, such as it is, is that if this arrangement doesn't work out, there will be another one waiting for her, that's been her experience thus far.

Honestly, I think they should cut the cord with Ashley completely. She's a grown woman who is making grown woman choices. So what if she acts like a child? She's not a child. Take off the kid gloves and force her to sink or swim. They are doing her no favors, long term, by giving her anything when she acts like she does. They are only making it harder for her.

Now, I know a lot of parents do help their kids out--buy their first home, put them through college, help them find a good paying job if they have the connections to do so. Goodness knows my parents helped me. But I think the attitude of the child has so much to with what that help means. If the child can appreciate and grow from it and take it for what it is, that's one thing. If same help is stunting the child, as it is with Ashley, that's another entirely. Within that lies the difference.

I completely agree with you Italia and although I know many people on here and my own friends disagree, I am of the school of thought that you support yourself completely after high school. Maybe I think that way because I had no other choice or maybe because everyone that I see who has a good amount of financial support does have sense of entitlement. I don't think Ashley or anyone like her will ever recover from all the handouts she has received. I have a friend who is 28 and has a masters degree and well paying professional job, but still doesn't get it. She regularly complains about the fact she has to go to work tomorrow to a group of people who all do as well. Ashley's and my friend's blind naivety that people work for a living baffles me. I think their parents think they will figure it out eventually, but I am not sure they ever will. And yes I am 100% positive Ashley's job was a handout as that is a well known PR firm. There is nothing like working hard to get your own job, pay your way through college, buy you first whatever and I feel bad for people who never get to experience it. Yet Ashley might be the last one laughing as Italia is also right that there will be another job that us regular people don't have access to waiting after this one.
 

suchende

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
1,002
megumic|1305732033|2924811 said:
Oh totally. Some student do nothing all semester and ace finals, but that's not true for most.

He was probably admitted to the part-time day program, which has a remedial required study component to it. Yes you're graded against the rest of the class, but you have fewer overall credits as you're on a 4-year program, not 3, so you have more time to focus on the 9-10 credits you're taking, as opposed to the 15 credits the majority of the class is taking.
Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying how the program works.
 

Haven

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
13,166
suchende|1305743537|2924936 said:
megumic|1305732033|2924811 said:
Oh totally. Some student do nothing all semester and ace finals, but that's not true for most.

He was probably admitted to the part-time day program, which has a remedial required study component to it. Yes you're graded against the rest of the class, but you have fewer overall credits as you're on a 4-year program, not 3, so you have more time to focus on the 9-10 credits you're taking, as opposed to the 15 credits the majority of the class is taking.
Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying how the program works.
That is very interesting, megumic. I've never heard of a remedial study program for law school students. It makes me wonder if the school has kept records on how students in this program perform in the real working world once they're practicing.
 

lizzyann

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
2,435
Italiahaircolor|1305729537|2924780 said:
I agree with Ashley being a spoiled brat. She's awful. But, that's par for the course, she's always been that way. It's the total sense of entitlement that is her ultimate downfall. She knows her parents have some money and she thinks or believes that their lifestyle should include her carte-blanche. She wants to be "kept" and live in NYC, work at a PR firm and make no money, but continue to live that 5-star lifestyle a la Sex In The City. That's not the real world and I think Chris (that's his name, right?) was very fair when he said he would pay for her commuting, but she had to work for the life she wants. Everyone has too and she's no exception.

It's also my understanding that Ashley has no "formal education" in so much as she went to college, got a degree...so, you KNOW that her working for the PR agency (and the one she's working for is pretty high brow) was a connection the show and her parents gifted her. She didn't get that on her own merit. Which, of course, is just another form of a hand out. It's not really teaching her anything. She's not out there pounding the NYC pavement looking for an "in"...she just had one handed to her. OF COURSE she's not going to give it her all and show up everyday to prove her worth. Why would she? Her experience, such as it is, is that if this arrangement doesn't work out, there will be another one waiting for her, that's been her experience thus far.

Honestly, I think they should cut the cord with Ashley completely. She's a grown woman who is making grown woman choices. So what if she acts like a child? She's not a child. Take off the kid gloves and force her to sink or swim. They are doing her no favors, long term, by giving her anything when she acts like she does. They are only making it harder for her.

Now, I know a lot of parents do help their kids out--buy their first home, put them through college, help them find a good paying job if they have the connections to do so. Goodness knows my parents helped me. But I think the attitude of the child has so much to with what that help means. If the child can appreciate and grow from it and take it for what it is, that's one thing. If same help is stunting the child, as it is with Ashley, that's another entirely. Within that lies the difference.

Italia, I 100% agree with you! There is no way she got that job on her own merit! And did you also notice Lizzy Grubman's (sp?) reaction to Ashley crying about not getting her way. OBVIOUSLY, Lizzy knows her and her family well or something, because why the hell would the owner of a well known PR agency be so comforting and nurturing to Ashley (an unpaid intern!)after Ashley obviously acted very un business like by even bringing up this conversation in front of Lizzy. If she had no connection to Ashley, I think Lizzy would have just told her to suck it up.
 

suchende

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
1,002
Haven|1305745021|2924962 said:
That is very interesting, megumic. I've never heard of a remedial study program for law school students. It makes me wonder if the school has kept records on how students in this program perform in the real working world once they're practicing.
The problem with law is that your ability to get elite jobs is very dependent on grades, particularly first-year grades. As a field, it's not very forgiving to people who struggle academically, so the data would probably not be very revealing about their capabilities as practitioners. Of course, salary isn't necessarily the number you have to look at, but I'm having a hard time thinking of what else you might consider: cases won? Most don't go to trial.
 

Italiahaircolor

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
5,184
Lizzy, in the past, has gotten bad press. Didn't she run over someone? I think either Lizzy is getting a Bravo show or something of that nature. Bravo really does like to cross shows when they can. They do it all the time on the food shows with the HW's and the chefs and their challenges.

Bring up moving out in front of her boss was beyond awkward. If anyone has the right to b**** about delivery, it's definitely not Ashley. Wrong time, wrong place.
 

megumic

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
1,647
Haven|1305745021|2924962 said:
suchende|1305743537|2924936 said:
megumic|1305732033|2924811 said:
Oh totally. Some student do nothing all semester and ace finals, but that's not true for most.

He was probably admitted to the part-time day program, which has a remedial required study component to it. Yes you're graded against the rest of the class, but you have fewer overall credits as you're on a 4-year program, not 3, so you have more time to focus on the 9-10 credits you're taking, as opposed to the 15 credits the majority of the class is taking.
Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying how the program works.
That is very interesting, megumic. I've never heard of a remedial study program for law school students. It makes me wonder if the school has kept records on how students in this program perform in the real working world once they're practicing.

My sense is the idea behind it is to bring in more $, as the part-time program does not offer scholarships. Many law schools have part-time evening programs for those who work full-time and want to simultaneously pursue law school. Some schools offer the part-time day programs to boost the budget by offering seats to kids who are just hardly qualified, perhaps have learning limitations, have an illness or condition or perhaps have young children at home, to accommodate the needs of others. I don't think the program is necessarily marketed as a remedial program, but students are accepted into it who may be qualified but perhaps the school has some caveats about the student's ability to perform, but the school wants the tuition dollars.

I think once these students graduate, the only thing the school cares about is bar passage and employment -- helps their statistics and rankings and thus their bottom line.

If you can't tell, I'm a bit jaded by money-hungry law schools who care less about student experience and more about the bottom line, i.e. getting the best kids there with the most scholarship money to raise stats to improve rankings, repeat cycle. That said, I had a great law school experience.
 

Haven

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
13,166
suchende|1305746196|2924982 said:
Haven|1305745021|2924962 said:
That is very interesting, megumic. I've never heard of a remedial study program for law school students. It makes me wonder if the school has kept records on how students in this program perform in the real working world once they're practicing.
The problem with law is that your ability to get elite jobs is very dependent on grades, particularly first-year grades. As a field, it's not very forgiving to people who struggle academically, so the data would probably not be very revealing about their capabilities as practitioners. Of course, salary isn't necessarily the number you have to look at, but I'm having a hard time thinking of what else you might consider: cases won? Most don't go to trial.
I know that colleges often keep tabs on a particular group of graduates by sending short surveys to the direct supervisors of those graduates. I imagine a remedial study program is already doing something like this as an ongoing assessment of the program's effectiveness, but I could be wrong.

I find it interesting because I imagine law would be a very difficult field for an individual who has a hard time keeping up with a full course load in school, so it's surprising to learn that there is a remedial study program for law school students. I'm also interested because my own field is developmental education (for undergrads) and the most difficult thing about the work I do is facing the reality that some individuals just are not capable of earning a college degree. Many of my students are capable, and they're in our developmental program because they simply missed the boat on learning how to read or write academic work, but some just don't have the cognitive ability to succeed in college. I find the notion of a remedial study program for law students to be really difficult to grasp, therefore, because my first question is whether the school is serving a population that cannot reasonably be expected to succeed in the career for which they are preparing. Honestly, I don't know enough about the real work that lawyers do to really draw that conclusion, I'm just speculating.
 

suchende

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
1,002
Haven, they definitely do keep track (at least my school does) but I am just wondering how helpful salary information would be, since in law it seems like an uphill battle to ever become financially successful without that first job at an elite employer, and that's heavily dependent on first year performance. If it takes you a little time to get the hang of law school, you may be shut out of 6 figure work forever. If there's another way to measure career success, I'm having a hard time thinking of it. Point being, it seems hard to prove that a lawyer with an LD was as successful as his peers without LDs thanks to the snobbishness of the field.
 

Madam Bijoux

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
5,391
That show is probably completely scripted. Who in real life would act like that at a christeningb party?
 

Sparkly_Not_Gaudy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
80
I have on my DVR for this weekend but there has been SO MUCH buzz about it being the white trash hoe down, I just cannot wait to see it. This show is a guilty pleasure of mine, for sure!
 

megumic

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
1,647
Haven|1305747411|2925001 said:
suchende|1305746196|2924982 said:
Haven|1305745021|2924962 said:
That is very interesting, megumic. I've never heard of a remedial study program for law school students. It makes me wonder if the school has kept records on how students in this program perform in the real working world once they're practicing.
The problem with law is that your ability to get elite jobs is very dependent on grades, particularly first-year grades. As a field, it's not very forgiving to people who struggle academically, so the data would probably not be very revealing about their capabilities as practitioners. Of course, salary isn't necessarily the number you have to look at, but I'm having a hard time thinking of what else you might consider: cases won? Most don't go to trial.
I know that colleges often keep tabs on a particular group of graduates by sending short surveys to the direct supervisors of those graduates. I imagine a remedial study program is already doing something like this as an ongoing assessment of the program's effectiveness, but I could be wrong.

I find it interesting because I imagine law would be a very difficult field for an individual who has a hard time keeping up with a full course load in school, so it's surprising to learn that there is a remedial study program for law school students. I'm also interested because my own field is developmental education (for undergrads) and the most difficult thing about the work I do is facing the reality that some individuals just are not capable of earning a college degree. Many of my students are capable, and they're in our developmental program because they simply missed the boat on learning how to read or write academic work, but some just don't have the cognitive ability to succeed in college. I find the notion of a remedial study program for law students to be really difficult to grasp, therefore, because my first question is whether the school is serving a population that cannot reasonably be expected to succeed in the career for which they are preparing. Honestly, I don't know enough about the real work that lawyers do to really draw that conclusion, I'm just speculating.

Haven, I generally agree that the school probably is serving a population in which some may not reasonably be expected to succeed -- in school or a career. I'll say, it's not easy to get into law school. I actually think it's surprisingly difficult. However, that said, I also find there are a lot of morons among my peers and I wonder how the heck they got in :confused:

Like I said, law schools are the cash cows for many universities. While I like to think and pretend most law schools care about the students, generally it's about statistics and US News & World Report rankings: how many graduates, first time bar passage rate, avg LSAT, avg college GPA, annual salary, graduation employment rate, etc, etc. The better the stats and rankings, the better students a school brings in, the more $ a school gets from alums and from tuition dollars.

Once law students graduate, the only thing the school is checking up on (to my knowledge) is whether or not you've made a donation that year...
 

suchende

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
1,002
megumic|1305836316|2925917 said:
Haven, I generally agree that the school probably is serving a population in which some may not reasonably be expected to succeed -- in school or a career. I'll say, it's not easy to get into law school. I actually think it's surprisingly difficult. However, that said, I also find there are a lot of morons among my peers and I wonder how the heck they got in :confused:

Like I said, law schools are the cash cows for many universities. While I like to think and pretend most law schools care about the students, generally it's about statistics and US News & World Report rankings: how many graduates, first time bar passage rate, avg LSAT, avg college GPA, annual salary, graduation employment rate, etc, etc. The better the stats and rankings, the better students a school brings in, the more $ a school gets from alums and from tuition dollars.

Once law students graduate, the only thing the school is checking up on (to my knowledge) is whether or not you've made a donation that year...
I hope this doesn't come off as rude, but I don't agree at all. There are no prereqs. Any major from any school qualifies you. The LSAT is highly learnable. You only need a couple of letters of recommendation (or none at some schools), an essay, an LSAT score and a UG degree. It's easier than almost any other grad program that I'm familiar with. I know a girl who got into a certain law school even though her essay named the WRONG school, and she never noticed until after she was admitted. The ease of which one can get into law school, IMO, is one of the major reasons the field is so over-saturated.
 

Amber St. Clare

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Messages
1,693
Madam Bijoux|1305820914|2925712 said:
That show is probably completely scripted. Who in real life would act like that at a christeningb party?


You are absolutely right. My nail tech was at the infamous Posh fashion show last year--the one wherein Danille's hair was pulled. She said the whole thing was choreographed, Teresea was fed her lines, the director staged the action, and after the scene was filmed {Danielle being chased by Teresea and Jackie} the director yelled CUT, and Danielle asked is he wanted to re film the scene. She said the only unscripted part was when the daughter pulled Danielle's hair.
 

petrock<3

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 22, 2010
Messages
1,100
Amber St. Clare|1305847101|2926075 said:
Madam Bijoux|1305820914|2925712 said:
That show is probably completely scripted. Who in real life would act like that at a christeningb party?


You are absolutely right. My nail tech was at the infamous Posh fashion show last year--the one wherein Danille's hair was pulled. She said the whole thing was choreographed, Teresea was fed her lines, the director staged the action, and after the scene was filmed {Danielle being chased by Teresea and Jackie} the director yelled CUT, and Danielle asked is he wanted to re film the scene. She said the only unscripted part was when the daughter pulled Danielle's hair.

Well this makes me sad. I love this show.
 

megumic

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
1,647
suchende|1305840523|2925970 said:
megumic|1305836316|2925917 said:
Haven, I generally agree that the school probably is serving a population in which some may not reasonably be expected to succeed -- in school or a career. I'll say, it's not easy to get into law school. I actually think it's surprisingly difficult. However, that said, I also find there are a lot of morons among my peers and I wonder how the heck they got in :confused:

Like I said, law schools are the cash cows for many universities. While I like to think and pretend most law schools care about the students, generally it's about statistics and US News & World Report rankings: how many graduates, first time bar passage rate, avg LSAT, avg college GPA, annual salary, graduation employment rate, etc, etc. The better the stats and rankings, the better students a school brings in, the more $ a school gets from alums and from tuition dollars.

Once law students graduate, the only thing the school is checking up on (to my knowledge) is whether or not you've made a donation that year...
I hope this doesn't come off as rude, but I don't agree at all. There are no prereqs. Any major from any school qualifies you. The LSAT is highly learnable. You only need a couple of letters of recommendation (or none at some schools), an essay, an LSAT score and a UG degree. It's easier than almost any other grad program that I'm familiar with. I know a girl who got into a certain law school even though her essay named the WRONG school, and she never noticed until after she was admitted. The ease of which one can get into law school, IMO, is one of the major reasons the field is so over-saturated.

Would you agree it's difficult to get into a *good* law school? Of course that depends on your perspective.
 

suchende

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
1,002
megumic|1305894414|2926440 said:
Would you agree it's difficult to get into a *good* law school? Of course that depends on your perspective.
Ah, yes, that I can agree with.
 
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