re: clarity....Is there ANY logical reason to buy IF/VVS etc?

[Marjan12]

HI all -

I have been looking to replace my stolen engagement ring, and thanks for all your help w/this (I''m in the process w/pear stones, etc.) My initial stone was an IF. I can''t quite remember exactly WHY we got an IF but probably a combination of I wanted what was considered "the best" and one of millions of boutiques we went to (my husband is form near Antwerp) happened to have an IF pear that was pretty.

Now that I''m looking to replace it, and I have you guys who are helping me learn about this stuff, is there any reason a person (besides there own ego) would buy an IF? I mean of course anyone should be able to buy what they want !, but are there reasons to look for an IF or VVS ring besides ego? (Like resale value, scintillation, anything?)

Thx, as always -
- Marjan

 

[stone-cold11]

Nope, nothing, only ego.

 

[Moh 10]

Yes, people vary and some people want high clarity - people like me.

I could have bought much larger diamonds but prefer D E Fs and VVS1 through VS1.

Why do I want them?
Is it logical?
Well is it any less logical than insisting on a REAL diamond?

I want my diamond to be real AND have high clarity.

I encourage you to get out and see lots of diamonds in person of all clarity grades and make up your own mind if the higher clarity is worth it to you.

If you are like many people you will draw the line at the eye-clean threshold near SI1.

Nobody is wrong or right.
It is all personal preference.
I say, buy and let buy.

 

[Moh 10]

Stone cold your wrote, "Nope, nothing, only ego. ".

The same could be said of people who absolutely MUST have a REAL diamond.

You want a REAL diamond because it being real means something important.
Likewise high color or clarity means something to some buyers.

I enjoy just knowing my stone is high color and clarity just as I enjoy knowing it is real, even though all three of these are not detectable by most people.

BTW, nothing wrong with ego.
We all have one.

 

[Amethyste]

For me, I have eagle eyes and i always look for flaws in my diamond if its like a SI stone, i''ll find it!
That''s why I rather have VVS-VS stones so I don''t drive myself crazy.

my pear is a VVS2 and perfect for my annoying eyes lol

 

[glitterata]

You''re buying at retail (or your insurance company is replacing something bought at retail), so if you try to resell you''ll lose money. So you shouldn''t think of this as an investment or worry too much about the resale value. The resale value is not great in any case.

Some people like IF diamonds because they love having something so rare. Some like them because they find the thought of inclusions in their diamond dirty or icky. Some people love having something that''s considered the best of its kind (what you''re calling "ego").

It sounds as if you would probably be happy with an eye-clean SI diamond, which would allow you to save money or go bigger or get a higher color.

 

[atroop711]

For ME an IF stone would be a waste of my money. I''d rather have a great cut, biggest stone for my dollar and as long as it''s eye clean..that''s ok with me. I''m not going to walk around with a loupe to brag and show to everyone who would listen that I have an IF stone? People have their reasons for only wanting an IF or VVS stone. That''s all good. BUT their are others who do it for bragging rights. Reminds me of the guy who has to have the biggest and most expensive car...why? What is he trying to make up for

?

Seriously...it''s all personal preference. I don''t ever ask anyone what are the stats of their stone..nor do I care what they are. As long as they are happy with their jewelry all is good! If someone wants an IF stone...more power to them...it''s their money to spend.

 

[Venice]

"EGO" has nothing to do with it. I prefer clean, clear diamonds because I enjoy looking at them through my loupe quite often, and I do not want to see inclusions. It''s a personal thing. I also prefer D-E color(less) because I am very color sensitive. I will take color and clarity (and cut) over size any day. But that''s me.

That being said, the only exception is I would love to have an OMC or one of GOG''s new cut chunky cushions in a low color, but I would still want higher clarity. I am in love with AJ''s new "downgrade." It''s so exquisite!

 

[FancyDiamond]

My first diamond is VVS2. I bought it because of stupidity, paying lots of money for nothing that matters. I could have got a bigger stone or paid less money if I knew to get VS2 instead.

 

[ficklefaye]

my ering diamond is a vvs1 because FI wanted to give me the best diamond he could get and clarity was one of the important factors for him, if i ever purchased another one, i would go lower in clarity (eye clean range), but only because it would probably be for another piece of jewelry and not my ering, i''m far too critical for that

 

[oldminer]

You have to respect the individuality of diamond lovers. Some people want a tiny bit of perfection that nature has provided. Others simply don''t care about what they can''t appreciate with their naked eyes. Who sits in judgment of these different appraoches to what they want to own in a diamond? We have visitors here from cultures which seek a nearly perfect slice of nature and others who come from a cuture which is in love with larger size rather than a lack of inclusions. Both have their place although we may find our own ideas don''t correspond with their''s.

 

[stone-cold11]

But is that a logical reason? That is the OP''s question I believe.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Nobody needs a diamond. But most people want, and own at least one. For many who have only one--their choice might be something that represents exclusivity, hence IF. I understand that concept, completely; yet it never occured to me that would be in any way egotistical.

cheers--Sharon

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 7/23/2009 4:03:55 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
But is that a logical reason? That is the OP''s question I believe.

To me, the answer is yes, the reasons Dave listed are logical reasons.

If I value rarity enough to pay for it, then it''s a logical reason. If I value knowing that my diamond my diamond''s clarity is in the upper end of the range, that''s also a logical reason.

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 7/23/2009 12:10:16 PM
Author:Marjan12

Now that I''m looking to replace it, and I have you guys who are helping me learn about this stuff, is there any reason a person (besides there own ego) would buy an IF? I mean of course anyone should be able to buy what they want !, but are there reasons to look for an IF or VVS ring besides ego? (Like resale value, scintillation, anything?)

Thx, as always -
- Marjan

One reason might be because you appreciate/value the rarity of higher clarity stones.
Another might be that IF has a symbolic meaning to you, i.e. representing purity.

These might not be necessarily "ego" points, but things that reflect what you personally value.

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 7/23/2009 4:51:54 PM
Author: Allison D.

Date: 7/23/2009 4:03:55 PM

Author: Stone-cold11

But is that a logical reason? That is the OP's question I believe.

To me, the answer is yes, the reasons Dave listed are logical reasons.

If I value rarity enough to pay for it, then it's a logical reason. If I value knowing that my diamond my diamond's clarity is in the upper end of the range, that's also a logical reason.

Nope, I consider that an emotional, cultural reason, that is not universal and apply to everyone, across board.

To quote OP's question.

I mean of course anyone should be able to buy what they want !, but are there reasons to look for an IF or VVS ring besides ego? (Like resale value, scintillation, anything?)

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/23/2009 12:18:13 PM
Author: Moh 10
Stone cold your wrote, ''Nope, nothing, only ego. ''.

The same could be said of people who absolutely MUST have a REAL diamond.

You want a REAL diamond because it being real means something important.
Likewise high color or clarity means something to some buyers.

I enjoy just knowing my stone is high color and clarity just as I enjoy knowing it is real, even though all three of these are not detectable by most people.

BTW, nothing wrong with ego.
We all have one.

Ditto and what might be a logical reason to one person might be completely illogical to another, doesn''t matter - only that the person buying the diamond/car/house/shoes/bicycle is happy.

 

[Stephan]

Is there ANY logical reason to buy IF when you could buy Flawless???!?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/23/2009 4:55:21 PM
Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 7/23/2009 4:51:54 PM
Author: Allison D.

Date: 7/23/2009 4:03:55 PM

Author: Stone-cold11

But is that a logical reason? That is the OP''s question I believe.

To me, the answer is yes, the reasons Dave listed are logical reasons.

If I value rarity enough to pay for it, then it''s a logical reason. If I value knowing that my diamond my diamond''s clarity is in the upper end of the range, that''s also a logical reason.

Nope, I consider that an emotional, cultural reason, that is not universal and apply to everyone, across board.

To quote OP''s question.

I mean of course anyone should be able to buy what they want !, but are there reasons to look for an IF or VVS ring besides ego? (Like resale value, scintillation, anything?)

Yes resale value could be a factor, a high colour and clarity diamond is likely to have a higher resale value than one which is lower.

 

[lovegem]

Date: 7/23/2009 4:03:55 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
But is that a logical reason? That is the OP''s question I believe.

I totally agree with David on this issue.

Stone-cold...is it logical to buy a stone that is only fraction of a gram but costs thousands? You can''t eat it, you can''t use it, but it pleases your eyes. Why buy a car that costs millions, while you can spend $20k and achieve the same thing, that is, if you goal is to get from point A to point B. The logical reason is to buy things that please us, make us happy and have a peace of mind.

 

[honey22]

No logical reason, but a mind-clean issue. It''s up to you. Would you prefer to know that you have no inclusions on paper, or a bigger and possible whiter stone?

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 7/23/2009 5:02:03 PM
Author: Lorelei

Yes resale value could be a factor, a high colour and clarity diamond is likely to have a higher resale value than one which is lower.

Are you saying resale value as a percentage or monetary value here?

I am assuming if you pay a higher monetary for it, you will get a higher monetary back when you sell it. But it is going to be 50% of the money back for a D IF vs. maybe a 30% back for a J SI1? If not, that is really not a valid reason, is it?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/23/2009 5:09:52 PM
Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 7/23/2009 5:02:03 PM
Author: Lorelei

Yes resale value could be a factor, a high colour and clarity diamond is likely to have a higher resale value than one which is lower.

Are you saying resale value as a percentage or monetary value here?

I am assuming if you pay a higher monetary for it, you will get a higher monetary back when you sell it. But it is going to be 50% of the money back for a D IF vs. maybe a 30% back for a J SI1? If not, that is really not a valid reason, is it?

I am saying from personal experience if you try to resell for monetary value, a higher colour and clarity diamond will sell for more money than a J SI1 in most cases. Assuming 2 diamonds of equal carat and cut, one is D VVS1 and the other is J SI2 then the D VVS will resell for more money than the J SI as it is worth more.

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 7/23/2009 5:15:23 PM
Author: Lorelei
I am saying from personal experience if you try to resell for monetary value, a higher colour and clarity diamond will sell for more money than a J SI1 in most cases. Assuming 2 diamonds of equal carat and cut, one is D VVS1 and the other is J SI2 then the D VVS will resell for more money than the J SI as it is worth more.

Of course, that being you pay more for it in the first place right?

Say you bought a D IF for $10000, sell it for $5000k, 50% resale value.

a J SI1 for $1000, sell it for $500, still 50% resale value or are you saying the J SI1 will sell for 40% resale value everytime?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/23/2009 5:23:33 PM
Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 7/23/2009 5:15:23 PM
Author: Lorelei
I am saying from personal experience if you try to resell for monetary value, a higher colour and clarity diamond will sell for more money than a J SI1 in most cases. Assuming 2 diamonds of equal carat and cut, one is D VVS1 and the other is J SI2 then the D VVS will resell for more money than the J SI as it is worth more.

Of course, that being you pay more for it in the first place right?

Say you bought a D IF for $10000, sell it for $5000k, 50% resale value.

a J SI1 for $1000, sell it for $500, still 50% resale value or are you saying the J SI1 will sell for 40% resale value everytime?

Yes you pay more for a higher ' quality' diamond it in the first place and by rights it should have a higher resale value too. I am not applying any particular percentages here, just that a D IF diamond of the same carat weight and cut quality as a J SI will resell for proportionately more.

 

[stone-cold11]

So the percentage return is the same is my point. You pay more for it, you get back more, but still the same percentage of what you pay in the first place. Is that better? Not from my POV.

 

[FancyDiamond]

I would not count on future resale value. As shoppers become more sophisticated and informed, high clarity grade may not be as in demand in the future, and thus may not command as high price.

 

[Moh 10]

I consider myself a highly informed and sophisticated diamond customer.
The more I learned the more I gravitated towards DEF VVS stones.

So I wouldn't say people who want high clarity and color are ignorant.

Now granted, an ignorant person may think high clarity and color make a stone look beautiful, while cut is primarily responsible for that.
But still, even after I learned that it is good cut that is responsible for a diamond's light show I still want high color and clarity.

I'd never say anything to suggest that the people who prefer I SI1 range stones have big egos since they want large stones or their stones are dirty or icky.
I'd never say their stones are a waste of money because they are low color and clarity.
I'd never say I first bought an SI1 because of stupidity and my next stone will be VVS.
Yet those are the kinds of statements people have made (in the other clarity direction) in this thread.
People, lets be more respectful when choosing our words.

I really think this all boils down to accepting diversity.
Other people are not like me, and that's okay.

And my goodness, none of this is logical.
Nobody needs a diamond, let alone one with this or that grade combination.
We buy them because we want them.
Any diamond purchase is 10 times more emotional than logical.

 

[FancyDiamond]

Date: 7/23/2009 7:32:44 PM
Author: Moh 10
I consider myself a highly informed and sophisticated diamond customer.
The more I learned the more I gravitated towards DEF VVS stones.

So I wouldn''t say people who want high clarity and color are ignorant.

Now granted, an ignorant person may think high clarity and color make a stone look beautiful, while cut is primarily responsible for that.
But still, even after I learned that it is good cut that is responsible for a diamond''s light show I still want high color and clarity.

I''d never say anything to suggest that the people who prefer I SI1 range stones have big egos since they want large stones or their stones are dirty or icky.
I''d never say their stones are a waste of money because they are low color and clarity.
I''d never say I first bought an SI1 because of stupidity and my next stone will be VVS.
Yet those are the kinds of statements people have made (in the other clarity direction) in this thread.
People, lets be more respectful when choosing our words.

I really think this all boils down to accepting diversity.
Other people are not like me, and that''s okay.

And my goodness, none of this is logical.
Nobody needs a diamond, let alone one with this or that grade combination.
We buy them because we want them.
Any diamond purchase is 10 times more emotional than logical.

My head is spinning from reading your comments. You are too sophisticated for a person with a simple mind like me. Instead of dwelling on logics and what not, I prefer to watch a mindless movie or drool over the eye candies in the "show me your ring" section to stay stress free.

 

[Moh 10]

Fancy Diamonds, earlier you wrote, "My first diamond is VVS2. I bought it because of stupidity, paying lots of money for nothing that matters. I could have got a bigger stone or paid less money if I knew to get VS2 instead."


Stupidity, and nothing that matters? OUCH!

That's a pretty unkind thing to say about people who are different from you because they prefer high clarity.

Sophisticated or simple, we all can respect others who are different from us.