RE: birthday gifts

[wakingdreams53]

AmeliaG, lol, there was no discussion re: coitus, I just blurted something out at the wrong time which ended hurting him. Accidentally reminding him of that certainly didn't aid an open discussion of our relationship. Should I be in a less-maintenance relationship? Probably, but there's no part of me that wishes to part with him just because it isn't "easy." Two human beings entwined in each others lives is never easy. My mom ultimately doesn't want me to fall into the same trap she did (my parents have been married for 26 years, only after 24 years did my father fully process the degree to which my mother hates red roses). She doesn't want me to be with someone who can be perceived as thoughtless, and while I admit, this entire thread is basically dedicated to his thoughtlessness, he's really not that bad.

Oh, and marriage is not on the table at ALL. As much as I was for it just six months ago, I'm as much against it now. Perhaps I was ready then, but he clearly wasn't. Perhaps one day our timelines will match up, if they don't, we'll deal with it then. Why burden a relationship with future possible problems?

I don't particularly believe that I'm not mature or wise enough. I agree that I don't have enough life experience to full stand for my decisions, but that's the point of life, no? To learn. I'm okay with making mistakes now. I'm in no rush.

 

[blacksand]

I'm with Amelia. There's nothing wrong with your boyfriend, and there's nothing wrong with you. I think counseling can be a wonderful thing, but I don't necessarily think it's what you need. You just need the perspective and maturity that comes with age. I don't think there's any reason to rush that. It's wonderful being young! I just think, if you spent a whole week with your parents and they both think you're unhappy, and most of your posts here make it sound like you're unhappy, well...maybe you're not happy? Your boyfriend may be great, but maybe you're just not a good match. It sounds like you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself, as well as your boyfriend, and it sounds like the relationship is a lot of work. It really doesn't need to be that much work. I know that's a lesson most people eventually learn the hard way (trust me, I've been there), but I promise you: it doesn't need to be that much work. You shouldn't have to walk on eggshells. You should have your needs met. There are guys who value the same things you do. There are guys who will happily plan vacation activities with you and will thank you for the plans you make.

I've been in quite a few relationships with men of other cultures and classes. FI is, in fact, the first American I've ever dated in my life (I'm American, in case that wasn't clear). In my case, none of those relationships worked. That does not mean, of course, that it can't work (of course it can, if you have similar values and communicate well!). But it does add a tremendous amount of strain. You don't see eye-to-eye on a lot of issues. Families may clash. It isn't fun. I used to think all relationships were like that. It was such a shock, when I met FI, to see how beautifully, and easily, things just clicked into place. I had no idea what I was missing. I'm not saying things can't work in your current relationship. It's not my place to comment on that. But I do think you are more unhappy right now than you are willing to admit to yourself. I think your parents may be on to something.

 

[iheartscience]

I'm with Amelia. There's nothing wrong with your boyfriend, and there's nothing wrong with you. I think counseling can be a wonderful thing, but I don't necessarily think it's what you need. You just need the perspective and maturity that comes with age. I don't think there's any reason to rush that. It's wonderful being young! I just think, if you spent a whole week with your parents and they both think you're unhappy, and most of your posts here make it sound like you're unhappy, well...maybe you're not happy? Your boyfriend may be great, but maybe you're just not a good match. It sounds like you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself, as well as your boyfriend, and it sounds like the relationship is a lot of work. It really doesn't need to be that much work. I know that's a lesson most people eventually learn the hard way (trust me, I've been there), but I promise you: it doesn't need to be that much work. You shouldn't have to walk on eggshells. You should have your needs met. There are guys who value the same things you do. There are guys who will happily plan vacation activities with you and will thank you for the plans you make.

Ditto blacksand. I don't think there is anything wrong with couples counseling, but you're 20 years old and not even close to marriage so it doesn't really seem appropriate in this situation. Honestly it sounds like perhaps you two just aren't right for each other. Sometimes love just isn't enough...if you're not compatible why try to force it?

 

[iugurl]

I just need to ask a question to clarify things. (Sorry if this has already been said. I read through all the responses, but perhaps not clearly enough.)

You went to your parents for a whole week for your birthday.Who paid for the transportation (did you fly?), food, extras during this trip? Did your bf? If he did pay for it, was it because it was your birthday and he wanted to treat you? Did he have to take off a week from work? If he paid for your portion of the trip, it seems as though he already got you a "gift." True, he could have/should have bought a card. But, come on he took a week off of work and paid for you to go see your parents, and stayed with your parents for a week. That seems like a pretty good present. (I don't know if I am generous enough to spend a whole week with my in-laws, let alone give up 5 days of precious vacation time to visit them)

If he didn't pay for anything and didn't have to take off time, well then my response would be different. Although, my comment still stands about spending a week with your parents! I will wait to say anything else until I know exactly what happened.

 

[Circe]

I can't tell if I'm a hard-ass, or if y'all are pushovers - a man going on a vacation where he's fed and housed by strangers is not a present from him, it is a present to him! And phrasing it as his "putting up with [her] arguments" makes it sound like she's being irrational, and he, poor patient dear, has been suffering mightily ... suffering the, what, generally reasonable expectations that an SO somehow observe a partner's b-day and respond to carefully thought-out questions concerning mutual plans? Man, the expectations for men get lower and lower by the second.

That said, I think one of the reasons I'm reacting the way I am is that, WD, your relationship as you describe it reminds me so much of my first relationship - right down to the fact that sex was something that seriously needed to be addressed by a trained professional (and, no, I do not mean a member of the oldest profession when I say that). Alas, that long-ago first BF did not concur, and I wound up sticking it out in that relationship for 7 years, partially because I loved him, partially because I hated quitting, and partially because I'd convinced myself that I was responsible for his happiness in a way that it never quite seemed that he worried about mine. Note: none of those were good enough reasons to stay in a relationship that was making me miserable.

I'm going to repeat something I said a few posts ago: it doesn't have to be this hard. In a good relationship, you might not be on the same page on every issue, but you'll be on the same page on the ones that matter most. You won't have to struggle against your own instincts and expectations at every step of the way, and you won't feel like you have to drag a partner, kicking and screaming, into some modicum of acceptable behavior. Couples counseling can help by providing "neutral" ground where you can address issues without anybody getting hurt or huffy, with a moderator of sorts to keep things on track: that said, individual counseling can be useful, too, and it sounds like it might be a benefit to you to work this stuff out. One thing I'd vociferously recommend, though, is that you stop trying to talk yourself out of what you're feeling, accept it as your baseline, and go from there ....

 

[Hospatogi]

I agree with everything every one else has said but just wanted to add one thing. You need to be true to yourself. You talk alot about what your boyfriend wants and feels, what your parents feel but what do you really want? You dont have to settle for a relationship that makes you less than happy especially at 20. I am certainly not saying that you should break up with your boyfriend but if you have had the breakup talk more than once in your relationship than there is alot more going on than being unhappy about not receiving a birthday present. It is not selfish to want to feel loved, valued, and appreciated. You deserve it and are worth it !

 

[suchende]

If your boyfriend were my friend and he told me he took you on this trip, spent time with your parents, bought you a dress, and you didn't see that as your "present," I would be concerned. Seems like what you're upset about is that he never said, "this is what I am doing for your birthday." I know you wanted him to be more involved in planning, but honestly? I think you were asking for too much. You wanted him to plan the trip on your "turf," to buy the tickets, and then to do another formal present? I don't mean to berate you but it seems like your focus is too narrow.

 

[wakingdreams53]

Blacksand, I get what you're saying about cultures, but for the most part, I can't stand my culture's men lol. I started off dating them and was turned off pretty quickly. Before bf, the guy I was dating was mostly American, but still saw himself as part-Spanish (mom's from Cuba)-- however, we were both in the same class, so there was never any clashing in that sense. I was much more delusional about my happiness in that relationship, so with that as my point of reference, this relationship really isn't that bad.

This is what he said to me last night, "Other people have problems that are much worse, so in that regard, we're perfectly fine." To which I replied, "I hate ignoring our problems just because they're not as bad as someone else's. I hate saying "nevermind" and letting it all rot inside me. I also found it incredibly hypocritical that you said we'd talk then a second later you got upset and closed yourself off from me."
He understood and apologized-- but that's all that was said. Incredibly generalized.

Thing2of2, I entertained the notion of couples counseling quite simply because I'd like it to work out between us.

Iugurl, yes, you're correct. We flew, he took a week off from work and paid for my half. I gave him the option to stay elsewhere, but since my mother offered to house us and it was economical, we stayed with them. My family always warmly welcomes him and he was ecstatic to spend time with my sister (he loves her more than I can describe). We didn't all spend much time together, so in that sense it wasn't fully an "in-law" type visit. But I do agree, he spent more than enough to be construed as a great birthday gift-- but it wasn't about that.

Circe, LOL. I think this is exactly what I mean my culture differences. To you, it's clear as day that "a man going on a vacation where he's fed and housed by strangers is not a present from him, it is a present to him!" while to the others it seems he's done more than enough.
Heh, well, he wouldn't go as far as to have sex to be addressed by a professional-- just that if sex were to be a problem, he feels there would be a lot more issues re: his masculinity. But as long as that isn't questioned, anything else is surmountable.

Idk, right now it's not bad at all. I think I've over-dramatized it. We just talked on the phone and I finally get where he's coming from-- two different wavelengths of thought: his idea was to go to the jewelry shop, if I was to love a bracelet there, he'd get it for me. But because of the huff I made, he felt no incentive to go and spend money on someone who won't appreciate it.
Really wish we had this talk last week...

Hospatogi, thank you! What I want? To be loved and cared for. Which he does, more than I ever thought possible. I'm not trying to settle for a less-than-perfect relationship. While I respect my parents opinions, everyone deserves to make their own mistakes. At this rate, I honestly don't care what they think. I know that sounds unreasonable and terribly immature, but if I'm happy, why do I need their words causing doubt?

Suchende, you're right, but a card isn't tough to buy. And yeah, the "ceremony" of it is whats missing for me, but right now, I truly am over it. At any rate, I'm grateful for the time we spent together. You mentioned the dress, yes, it's beautiful and he knows how much I appreciate him buying it for me.

 

[iugurl]

I can't tell if I'm a hard-ass, or if y'all are pushovers - a man going on a vacation where he's fed and housed by strangers is not a present from him, it is a present to him! And phrasing it as his "putting up with [her] arguments" makes it sound like she's being irrational, and he, poor patient dear, has been suffering mightily ... suffering the, what, generally reasonable expectations that an SO somehow observe a partner's b-day and respond to carefully thought-out questions concerning mutual plans? Man, the expectations for men get lower and lower by the second.

I totally disagree. I think sure, it would be great for him if they went to a resort and were fed and housed by staff of a hotel, but staying with her family for a week? Unless they are VERY close, I don't that was is idea of "present" or his dream "vacation." I guess you must LOVE your in-laws to want to give up a week of vacation and stay with them. That is great, but I would say that you are in the minority. Heck, I love my parents and see them frequently, but I wouldn't consider staying with them a whole week as a vacation or a present to myself. It would be if we lived a whole plane ride away though...

Plus, come on you don't consider a plane ticket and food and extras for a week a gift? You think him shelling out all of the $ was also a present to himself?

 

[Circe]

I can't tell if I'm a hard-ass, or if y'all are pushovers - a man going on a vacation where he's fed and housed by strangers is not a present from him, it is a present to him! And phrasing it as his "putting up with [her] arguments" makes it sound like she's being irrational, and he, poor patient dear, has been suffering mightily ... suffering the, what, generally reasonable expectations that an SO somehow observe a partner's b-day and respond to carefully thought-out questions concerning mutual plans? Man, the expectations for men get lower and lower by the second.

I totally disagree. I think sure, it would be great for him if they went to a resort and were fed and housed by staff of a hotel, but staying with her family for a week? Unless they are VERY close, I don't that was is idea of "present" or his dream "vacation." I guess you must LOVE your in-laws to want to give up a week of vacation and stay with them. That is great, but I would say that you are in the minority. Heck, I love my parents and see them frequently, but I wouldn't consider staying with them a whole week as a vacation or a present to myself. It would be if we lived a whole plane ride away though...

Plus, come on you don't consider a plane ticket and food and extras for a week a gift? You think him shelling out all of the $ was also a present to himself?

I will admit, I am hella lucky when it comes to my in-laws - staying with them is totally a vacation, right down to the mixed drinks. But I didn't know that the first time I ever visited them, and, yeah, I still regarded it as a vacation, if only because I was seeing a new place with my SO. And as for the tickets? WD mentioned that she pops down to see them every few months anyway, so it seems more like quid pro quo than anything else - he pays for both tickets, she (or her family connections, at any rate) cover room and board. I am just really failing to see how dude has done anything more than the bare minimum here. For me, he lost basically all credit he got for paying for meals and/or the dress, thongs, etc. with the cheap shot about how it would have cost him less if he'd timed it better ... it suggests that he's looking to do the bare minimum in a relationship, which is anathema to me. I'm sure he has other sterling qualities, if the two of them have been together for 2.5 years ... but I haven't heard any of them in this thread.

In my head, I keep comparing it to that Hangout thread from a month or two back, where somebody posted about their mom not liking their fiance because he hadn't driven them to the airport, and they'd missed the flight (OP on that thread, I apologize, I cannot place you specifically). On that one, I was puzzled in the opposite direction - from my perspective, he hadn't done anything wrong! But for the majority, it was a cardinal sin. I can't help but wonder, is it a difference between the boards, or am I just that contrary?

 

[AmeliaG]

Yeah, this may be cultural differences. Not necessarily Russian-Italian, but different families treat gifts and birthdays, holidays, etc. different.

Are you two basically happy the rest of the year and you only get into these arguments around your birthday? Then, you may be overdramatizing. Birthdays are important but if everything else is good, they're not important enough by themselves to soul search a relationship. If he truly meets most of your needs the rest of the year, a screw up on your birthday should be an annoyance at most - something you mention casually afterward, air out your differences, and drop till next year when you remember BEFORE he spends a lot of money on a trip to remind him how you want your birthday celebrated.

 

[AmeliaG]

I will admit, I am hella lucky when it comes to my in-laws - staying with them is totally a vacation, right down to the mixed drinks. But I didn't know that the first time I ever visited them, and, yeah, I still regarded it as a vacation, if only because I was seeing a new place with my SO. And as for the tickets? WD mentioned that she pops down to see them every few months anyway, so it seems more like quid pro quo than anything else - he pays for both tickets, she (or her family connections, at any rate) cover room and board. I am just really failing to see how dude has done anything more than the bare minimum here. For me, he lost basically all credit he got for paying for meals and/or the dress, thongs, etc. with the cheap shot about how it would have cost him less if he'd timed it better ... it suggests that he's looking to do the bare minimum in a relationship, which is anathema to me. I'm sure he has other sterling qualities, if the two of them have been together for 2.5 years ... but I haven't heard any of them in this thread.

In my head, I keep comparing it to that Hangout thread from a month or two back, where somebody posted about their mom not liking their fiance because he hadn't driven them to the airport, and they'd missed the flight (OP on that thread, I apologize, I cannot place you specifically). On that one, I was puzzled in the opposite direction - from my perspective, he hadn't done anything wrong! But for the majority, it was a cardinal sin. I can't help but wonder, is it a difference between the boards, or am I just that contrary?

Yeah, I saw that thread; I was with you on that one.

the cheap shot about how it would have cost him less if he'd timed it better ... it suggests that he's looking to do the bare minimum in a relationship, which is anathema to me. I'm sure he has other sterling qualities, if the two of them have been together for 2.5 years ... but I haven't heard any of them in this thread.

You see, now this is where I'm the hard-ass. He said the truth, she admitted it, he didn't get personal and attack her - I didn't read anything more in his words than what he said so that comment wouldn't have hurt me. I didn't interpret that he was trying to do the bare minimum in the relationship. He may well be trying to do the bare minimum but I'd have to see more than one statement to think that. As far as not hearing of any of his other sterling qualities in the thread, I just assume that if a woman has enough of a problem to post a thread, then she's not focusing on his sterling qualities, so we're not likely to hear about them even if he has them. Sometimes I think that all the guys talked about in these types of threads cannot be as big of a jerk as they appear, but I think its just the nature of the threads. I've come to the conclusion that you can't tell everything that's going on in a relationship just off of what's posted on a forum thread which makes me really wary of giving drastic advise like, leave him!

 

[wakingdreams53]

Iugurl, we actually are that close. I suggested it would have been better not to stay with them, but he was pretty adamant about seeing my sister (5 years old, loves him to pieces). It wasn't "giving up" vacation, but rather having the vacation with them. Is it the ideal situation? No, but it was probably much better than how you imagine. Of course I consider the ticket and extras a gift, but I'm more in line with Circe's thinking on the matter.

Circe, yep, mixed drinks and everything -- we had Pisca Sours (which allowed for RIOTS of laughter due to the Russian meaning of "pisca" ). Yeah, the "cheap shot," hurt me, but he was hurt when he said it. While we're definitely not done talking about it, his surprise was ruined by my lack of enthusiasm. He thought that us going jewelry shopping together would be the best gift ever-- and he's right, but I completely didn't look at it that way. I've obviously painted him in a very bad light. He really is sweet and thoughtful, and there was thought put into the surprise, I just ignored it and took it as thoughtless-- when it was actually thoughtful.
He actually does a lot in the relationship. Sure, sometimes I need to mention something to him because we simply don't prioritize in the same way, but for the most part, I'm extremely happy with him. I think and mull over everything, CONSTANTLY. which blatantly do neither me or the relationship any good.

AmeliaG, thank you. He didn't really do anything wrong. I just read it all wrong and we really should have talked about it originally-- which we've been doing, which is why I haven't posted any "wtf is wrong with him" threads in a while, heh. He really isn't a jerk and I do regret painting him in that light. I was clearly just upset, perhaps it wasn't entirely baseless, but I shouldn't have been afraid to open up to him instead of the darling, opinionated ladies here.
And yes, we are happy the rest of the year. Actually, my birthday was spent quite nicely, and I don't have regrets in that regard. I admit to being both over and melodramatic. No need to soul-search the relationship, you're quite right. I've already let it go.

Again, thank you everyone! I'm glad I got to get all of my bs out and just talk to him. I read everyones responses and I truly appreciated all of them-- even the seemingly harsh ones.