RB HELP please :) Looks good??

[prettypaper01]

Hello all!

Long story short: Upgrading and my dream is to own a WF RB ACA. Unfortunately it is looking less and less like a reality... I am having a heck of a time selling my current MRB. It was sold to us as J, SI1, Ideal cut but after being sent to GIA for grading, we found it is actually O-P, I1, Very Good. We were quite surprised as it sparkles like mad with beautiful HA, faces up white (BF) and the twinning wisps are not visible (it's 100% eye clean). But due to the grade no one wants it, or is offering next to nothing for it. Understandably so. We paid a lot for it, and are pretty disappointed.

Dream stone would be 2.1-2.4, J or higher, VS+ ACA (or AGS0 or super ideal).

We would have much better luck $$ wise at a local BM since they would accept it as a trade in. That being said, I am very nervous as I don't own an idealscope or any other tools. Actually nervous doesn't even scratch the surface, I am really really stressing out over it. Does this particular GIA MRB look good to you?? Any glaring red flags? Any advice greatly appreciated

 

[Kim N]

It looks very promising! Can you post photos of it, perhaps a head-on photo in diffuse lighting?

 

[prettypaper01]

It looks very promising! Can you post photos of it, perhaps a head-on photo in diffuse lighting?

I will try! I need to call and see when he is in. The fact that it even "looks promising" makes me feel a little better - thank you for responding!

 

[MRBXXXFVVS1]

How big is yor current diamond? Have you tried selling here or via LoupeTroop? Would you consider keeping it and making a neklace or something with it?

 

[mwilliamanderson]

I agree that the stone they're offering you looks great on paper! Post photos and video when you can.

 

[prettypaper01]

How big is yor current diamond? Have you tried selling here or via LoupeTroop? Would you consider keeping it and making a neklace or something with it?

It is 1.72 and I submitted to many consignors. To be honest I am so scared of LT and DB just because I used to sell on ebay all the time and was constantly dealing with scammers

 

[prettypaper01]

I agree that the stone they're offering you looks great on paper! Post photos and video when you can.

Will do! Thanks so much!

 

[DejaWiz]

Hello all!

Long story short: Upgrading and my dream is to own a WF RB ACA. Unfortunately it is looking less and less like a reality... I am having a heck of a time selling my current MRB. It was sold to us as J, SI1, Ideal cut but after being sent to GIA for grading, we found it is actually O-P, I1, Very Good. We were quite surprised as it sparkles like mad with beautiful HA, faces up white (BF) and the twinning wisps are not visible (it's 100% eye clean). But due to the grade no one wants it, or is offering next to nothing for it. Understandably so. We paid a lot for it, and are pretty disappointed.

Dream stone would be 2.1-2.4, J or higher, VS+ ACA (or AGS0 or super ideal).

We would have much better luck $$ wise at a local BM since they would accept it as a trade in. That being said, I am very nervous as I don't own an idealscope or any other tools. Actually nervous doesn't even scratch the surface, I am really really stressing out over it. Does this particular GIA MRB look good to you?? Any glaring red flags? Any advice greatly appreciated

Beautiful proportions! 40.8/35.0/57 is a great combination, in my opinion. As long as the ASET and/or IdealScope images check out, then it should be a beautiful diamond that leans slightly towards fiery.

If you want to buy your own, David Atlas (oldminer) sells both the ASET and IdealScope on his web store.

ASET (recommend getting it with both the ideal and average CZ stones)

ASET Scope

datlas.com

Expert IdealScope (with ideal and average CZ)

Expert Ideal-Scope

datlas.com

ASET and Expert IdealScope package (professional kit only, unless you also want the stone holder and/or the lighted dual loupe)

New Professional Kit

datlas.com

 

[prettypaper01]

Beautiful proportions! 40.8/35.0/57 is a great combination, in my opinion. As long as the ASET and/or IdealScope images check out, then it should be a beautiful diamond that leans slightly towards fiery.

If you want to but your own, David Atlas (@oldminer ) sells both the ASET and IdealScope on his web store.

ASET (recommend getting it with both the ideal and average CZ stones)

ASET Scope

datlas.com

Expert IdealScope (with ideal and average CZ)

Expert Ideal-Scope

datlas.com

ASET and Expert IdealScope package (professional kit only, unless you also want the stone holder and/or the lighted dual loupe)

New Professional Kit

datlas.com

WOW thank you so much! This is awesome! Looking into this now... do you think with these proportions (which I know it's difficult without the aset / idealscope) that this might have the potential to be cut as well as a strict ACA / AGS0 / Super Ideal graded one? That is what I'm really going for. Maybe it's impossible to speculate without all the details. Thanks again!

 

[DejaWiz]

WOW thank you so much! This is awesome! Looking into this now... do you think with these proportions (which I know it's difficult without the aset / idealscope) that this might have the potential to be cut as well as a strict ACA / AGS0 / Super Ideal graded one? That is what I'm really going for. Maybe it's impossible to speculate without all the details. Thanks again!

Absolutely. These proportions fall smack-dab into GIA 3X, AGS 000, and GCAL 8X criteria.

 

[prettypaper01]

Absolutely. These proportions fall smack-dab into GIA 3X, AGS 000, and GCAL 8X criteria.

Wow - trying not to get my hopes up, but this made me feel so much better about potentially considering this over a WF ACA. THANK YOU! I will see if I can get ASET + Idealscope images from the jeweler. And if not, I will definitely purchase for peace of mind.

 

[prettypaper01]

Wondering if I should be concerned about the "Pinpoints are not shown. Internal graining is not shown." Since graining is internal (not surface), I wonder what the chances are of seeing it in a VS2. I guess I shouldn't worry until I see it in person...

 

[DejaWiz]

Wondering if I should be concerned about the "Pinpoints are not shown. Internal graining is not shown." Since graining is internal (not surface), I wonder what the chances are of seeing it in a VS2. I guess I shouldn't worry until I see it in person...

Highly doubtful it will be of any impact for anything SI1 or better.
Best bet is to have your jeweler confirm that there isn't anything present that would pose as an inhibitor to transparency and light return.

Diamond Clarity: Everything You Need To Know

What is the best diamond clarity? Our extensive guide and interactive diamond clarity chart shows you everything you need to know.

www.pricescope.com

 

[Diamond_Enthusiast]

Highly doubtful it will be of any impact for anything SI1 or better.
Best bet is to have your jeweler confirm that there isn't anything present that would pose as an inhibitor to transparency and light return.

Diamond Clarity: Everything You Need To Know

What is the best diamond clarity? Our extensive guide and interactive diamond clarity chart shows you everything you need to know.

www.pricescope.com

Agree! It sounds pretty benign, especially for a VS2.

Here is an article that has photos showing what some inclusions look like in you case you are interested:

Understanding Diamond Clarity, the Good, the Bad, and Ugly

The GIA Diamond Clarity grading scale consists of six categories and eleven subcategories that depend on the absence of inclusions rather than presence.

niceice.com

 

[ringo865]

I hope you are not using the original jeweler that sold you the “not” J SI1 diamond for this new one. Perhaps forgo the “trade” part of the deal and just keep your original as a pendant. Or do the “sale” and “purchase” as two separate transactions. Otherwise, the price of the new stone could be increased to seem like you’re being offered a bigger “trade” price.

 

[prettypaper01]

I hope you are not using the original jeweler that sold you the “not” J SI1 diamond for this new one. Perhaps forgo the “trade” part of the deal and just keep your original as a pendant. Or do the “sale” and “purchase” as two separate transactions. Otherwise, the price of the new stone could be increased to seem like you’re being offered a bigger “trade” price.

UGHhhh. As much as it pains me to admit, yes. I don't want to use them. I did my due diligence and found the same exact same stone (it's from 3rd party virtual selection that a lot of jewelers have on their site) listed on other local competitor's sites and printed out their listed prices. I have 4 prices from my state. If they want more we will simply walk away. While they over charged me by $$$$$$, they do have a 100% trade up policy so it gives me between 9-10K towards the upgrade. I was only getting 2-3K offers from buyers, so I'll take the 9-10K ish (I need to look it up, was over 15 years ago) as long as I know exactly what we are getting. In this case, a GIA certified ideal that is laser inscribed. Not thrilled but looks like one of my only options as we just can't justify the stats we want in a WF ACA out of pocket with no trade credit right now

 

[prettypaper01]

Agree! It sounds pretty benign, especially for a VS2.

Here is an article that has photos showing what some inclusions look like in you case you are interested:

Understanding Diamond Clarity, the Good, the Bad, and Ugly

The GIA Diamond Clarity grading scale consists of six categories and eleven subcategories that depend on the absence of inclusions rather than presence.

niceice.com

thank you! reading it now...

 

[DejaWiz]

...found the same exact same stone (it's from 3rd party virtual selection that a lot of jewelers have on their site) listed on other local competitor's sites and printed out their listed prices. I have 4 prices from my state.
If they want more we will simply walk away.
100% trade up policy so it gives me between 9-10K towards the upgrade.

I think you're making the right move by giving your original jeweler the first shot with the diamond you are looking at.
Can't argue the trade credit, plus I think the new diamond has a very high chance of being a jaw-dropper!

 

[Dancing Fire]

WOW thank you so much! This is awesome! Looking into this now... do you think with these proportions (which I know it's difficult without the aset / idealscope) that this might have the potential to be cut as well as a strict ACA / AGS0 / Super Ideal graded one? That is what I'm really going for. Maybe it's impossible to speculate without all the details. Thanks again!

You need to post H&A pics otherwise the answer is no.

 

[DejaWiz]

You need to post H&A pics otherwise the answer is no.

To be fair, the question was "might have the potential". To me, the answer is yes it has potential, but only based on the proportions and angles since they are within the criteria that most super ideal cut sellers define for their diamonds.
Confirmation requires the ASET/IdealScope/H&A images.
Is it possible? Yes.
Is it probable? No, but I think that it has a good chance of having decent H&A patterning and great light return, even if they aren't to the extreme standards of super ideal cut sellers.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Is it possible? Yes.
Is it probable? No, but I think that it has a good chance of having decent H&A patterning and great light return, even if they aren't to the extreme standards of super ideal cut sellers.

Yes, but decent is different from a true H&A stone. It is ok if the OP isn't paying H&A premium.

 

[DejaWiz]

Yes, but decent is different from a true H&A stone. It is ok if the OP isn't paying H&A premium.

That I absolutely agree with, and why I am anxiously awaiting advanced images.

 

[prettypaper01]

To clarify, I am wanting the precision cut of an ideal stone. Maybe I am ignorant, but the reason my UHG would be a WF ACA is knowing that its cut 100% maximizes light return, sparkle and brilliance. I am not as concerned with H&A as long as the attributes I mentioned aren't compromised. Is that an oxymoron? Do all Super Ideal cuts have perfect H&A? I apologize for all the questions, still learning. I appreciate you all so much!

Update: Jeweler called and they are overnighting the stone in to see in person. I will share photos when I can

 

[DejaWiz]

To clarify, I am wanting the precision cut of an ideal stone. Maybe I am ignorant, but the reason my UHG would be a WF ACA is knowing that its cut 100% maximizes light return, sparkle and brilliance. I am not as concerned with H&A as long as the attributes I mentioned aren't compromised. Is that an oxymoron? Do all Super Ideal cuts have perfect H&A? I apologize for all the questions, still learning. I appreciate you all so much!

Update: Jeweler called and they are overnighting the stone in to see in person. I will share photos when I can

For most of us here at PS, all MRB super ideal cut diamonds are H&A by default.
But not all H&A diamonds would qualify to be super ideal cuts (this one is subjective, since there are those that hold the viewpoint that a true H&A diamond must also be a super ideal cut that falls into a specific range of proportions and angles). Example: it's possible for a 60/60 style cut to have great H&A patterning, but the proportions and angles would disqualify it from meeting the criteria of most super ideal cut sellers.

 

[daisygrl]

To clarify, I am wanting the precision cut of an ideal stone. Maybe I am ignorant, but the reason my UHG would be a WF ACA is knowing that its cut 100% maximizes light return, sparkle and brilliance. I am not as concerned with H&A as long as the attributes I mentioned aren't compromised. Is that an oxymoron? Do all Super Ideal cuts have perfect H&A? I apologize for all the questions, still learning. I appreciate you all so much!

Update: Jeweler called and they are overnighting the stone in to see in person. I will share photos when I can

I am going to play a devil's advocate here. Chances of this stone being similar to WF ACA? None. Could it be a decent stone? Yes. You want to have a cake and eat it, too.

This "jeweler" ripped you off once. I understand that you have 100% trade-in option. I also understand that you did your homework this time and made sure he would not rip you off on the next purchase. That being said, out of my principle (might not be yours) I would never give my hard-earned money to this guy twice. I would choose those 3K over 9K and cut my losses and not look back. What is done is done. I would rather have a smaller stone from a reputable seller. Someone I know I can come back to in another 15 years for an upgrade knowing I am getting for what I am paying.

 

[Kim N]

If you're going to be seeing the diamond in the absence of tools, check out @flyingpig's tutorial on how to DIY an ASET scope. https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/dyi-aset-nerdy-stuff-ver-2-0.234343/

 

[Decision_Decisions]

I feel that I can weigh in on this. I did a trade at a local jeweler because the 100% trade in value was much more than anything I was being offered. I didn't want to work with him again but I felt trapped. The $ I had invested was less than you so I can certainly understand your feelings. I was able to find a stone through him with PS recommended proportions. It was a lovely stone.

But, I just went with WF for another upgrade and lost several thousand in the trade, which is certainly disappointing, but I have zero regrets. I will stress that I did not have any advanced images when I bought my stone, so the one you're looking at may certainly be better. But below are pictures of my old stone next to my new ACA. Absolutely no comparison in my eyes. It is so satisfying to me to know I have the best possible cut & light performance. As well as the comfort of the upgrade policy.

 

[MissGotRocks]

I had this exact same experience too with WF. I traded in an AGS0 diamond for a WF ACA and the difference was significant. The chances of finding a near ACA diamond are slim to none. WF goes way beyond numbers on a cert to define their light performance. You can read it all on their website.
Having said all of that, you can certainly find a beautiful diamond that may make you very happy without paying the premium for a super ideal. Just don’t be misled by the ‘almost ACA’ language and go into your purchase with your eyes wide open. The criteria for choosing a diamond can widely vary for folks and that is ok too.

 

[DejaWiz]

I am going to play a devil's advocate here. Chances of this stone being similar to WF ACA? None. Could it be a decent stone? Yes. You want to have a cake and eat it, too.

This "jeweler" ripped you off once. I understand that you have 100% trade-in option. I also understand that you did your homework this time and made sure he would not rip you off on the next purchase. That being said, out of my principle (might not be yours) I would never give my hard-earned money to this guy twice. I would choose those 3K over 9K and cut my losses and not look back. What is done is done. I would rather have a smaller stone from a reputable seller. Someone I know I can come back to in another 15 years for an upgrade knowing I am getting for what I am paying.

@daisygrl , I've reread your comment numerous times now, and I'm torn on what advice to give, now.

On one hand: the 100% credit of $9000 is nothing to balk at, especially since the replacement diamond may very well be an ideal H&A and has great potential to have excellent light return and performance, which will likely be a massive improvement compared to the diamond that it is to replace. The trade-in money is enticing, and things look positive so far for the replacement diamond that some simple vetting with advanced images viewing tools can reveal. Not a guarantee that this new diamond will have the optical precision of a super ideal, but: is "regular ideal" with decent H&A patterning acceptable? Only the eye of the beholder can answer that.

On the other hand: you're absolutely right...once bitten, twice shy. Take the lower offer, cut the losses, lesson learned (almost all of us have been there), and go with a guaranteed super ideal cut such as WF, BGD, CBI, VC, etc. It may be a smaller diamond to offset the loss in resale/trade, but there is always the lovely upgrade programs to stair-step up to bigger diamonds over time.

Now that I'm on the verge of hitting the "post reply" button and have been able to let some thoughts simmer while typing this out, maybe the correct path would be: investigate both?

First, determine if the replacement diamond from the original jeweler at least represents an ideal diamond with no leakage or serious symmetry issues (noticeable H&A is obviously a bonus). If it's deemed worthy, then take the full trade money, the new diamond, and run. If the new diamond turns out to be a dud by not meeting the desired goals, then proceed to option #2:

Second, the super ideal sellers are always on stand-by to welcome a new customer and work hard to earn their trust, build a lasting relationship, and offer the best service and policies in the industry. Yes, the resale hit will hurt, but the end result of having a highly vetted guaranteed super ideal cut with perfect H&A diamond may very well be worth the ouch factor in offloading the old diamond.

This is seemingly such a tough spot to be in: it's a tug of war between...

1. Subjectiveness

• replacement diamond being "good enough" if great light performance and a lively personality are verified, representing a big step up from the current diamond.
• problem solved, but a lot of time and effort must be put forth to vet the new diamond.

2. The science of optical precision

• a super ideal cut diamond that represents the pinnacle of the MRB, leaving zero doubt.
• problem solved with sugar on top, albeit with some sacrifices made to get there.

 

[Decision_Decisions]

I also want to stress that a non-ACA can be stunningly beautiful. I just wanted to post the comparison photos as you are specifically interested in how an ACA compares.

My advice would hinge on whether or not this will be your last upgrade. If so, you may be really happy with something your jeweler can source. But if you think there's even a chance you'll upgrade again I would take the hit now vs losing even more in the future. Plus WF is so easy to work with and that combined with their selection is worth the premium to me.