Rappaport to start online diamond auction

[diagem]

Date: 9/21/2007 8:45:54 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
I was fishing for bargains in VS2 that met my cut criteria.

Garry..., do you "really" expect "bargains" in YOUR cut criteria???

There were not many. And not all my bids were competitive because for e.g. I will not pay as much per carat for a 1.08ct as a 1.00ct etc

You go by total!!!

Re Rap''s list relevance - I think it is rather deliberate to let size and rarity catagories develop their own dyneamics because the list is now so widely used that it needs some finesse for dealers to make money using it. (If that is not clear, then I will not have to kill you)

deliberate by who? Rap?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 9/22/2007 4:20:03 AM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 9/21/2007 8:45:54 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
I was fishing for bargains in VS2 that met my cut criteria.

Garry..., do you ''really'' expect ''bargains'' in YOUR cut criteria???

There were not many. And not all my bids were competitive because for e.g. I will not pay as much per carat for a 1.08ct as a 1.00ct etc

You go by total!!!

Re Rap''s list relevance - I think it is rather deliberate to let size and rarity catagories develop their own dyneamics because the list is now so widely used that it needs some finesse for dealers to make money using it. (If that is not clear, then I will not have to kill you)

deliberate by who? Rap?

I think Mike Rap is now part of a system and no longer has the power to act as his own person with the list.

the list is like a social construct now.

 

[diagem]

Date: 9/22/2007 4:58:22 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 9/22/2007 4:20:03 AM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 9/21/2007 8:45:54 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
I was fishing for bargains in VS2 that met my cut criteria.

Garry..., do you ''really'' expect ''bargains'' in YOUR cut criteria???

There were not many. And not all my bids were competitive because for e.g. I will not pay as much per carat for a 1.08ct as a 1.00ct etc

You go by total!!!

Re Rap''s list relevance - I think it is rather deliberate to let size and rarity catagories develop their own dyneamics because the list is now so widely used that it needs some finesse for dealers to make money using it. (If that is not clear, then I will not have to kill you)

deliberate by who? Rap?

I think Mike Rap is now part of a system and no longer has the power to act as his own person with the list.

the list is like a social construct now.

Mike-Raphone..., cool!

Question..., part of what system? DeBeers-Rapaport-GIA "group"???

"...no longer has power..." because his PriceSheet is becoming irrelevant (in my humble opinion only.)

I keep seeing prices all over the place..., for the same type of goods just on different paths.

 

[elmo]

Well the new list is out and this time it includes the reserve prices. But the reserves still appear optimistic...many in the single digits to 10-15 back. I''m not up on this like someone in the trade but can''t you normally buy similar stones at better prices on 30 day memo?

Date: 9/21/2007 9:15:19 AM
Author: denverappraiser
Well, the auction ended yesterday. Here are the results.


Auction Results September 20 2007


It looks like only about 25/210 of them actually exceeded the reserve and sold. So much for my theory that the reserves will be set so that most will end in a sale. Quite a few of the bids that were refused generally look pretty reasonable. Realistic buyers and overly optimistic sellers isn’t going to make for a very interesting auction if they don’t address it for next time. I suppose it is pretty easy and it’s free to list a stone so even a 10% chance of a sale is still enough get takers on that side but buyers who are seriously interested in a particular stone are going to find a 1 out of 10 chance of a high bid actually getting it to be pretty discouraging. Highly automated buyers will have no great problem with it but I expect that humans will get quickly frustrated with it and choose to do their shopping elsewhere.

 

[denverappraiser]

They do seem to have finally received their first bid for the October auction although it’s not showing signs of great excitement. It may be the optimistic looking reserves or it may be that the current dynamic encourages tactics rather like ebay where it pays to withhold from bidding until the very last second. Curiously this bid is below the stated reserve price. I’m not sure how this logistically possible because it looks to me like the starting bid is automatically set at slightly above the reserve.

I notice that the September results now include the highest bid on the ones that failed to meet the reserve as well as the ones that actually sold. This makes the data far more useful for statistical purposes although the descriptions beyond the summary has still been removed.

Here''s the current catalog for those who want to watch.
http://www.diamonds.net/auction/Tender.aspx?TenderID=46

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[denverappraiser]

Seller can reduce reserve price up to one hour before auction close.

I just noticed this interesting wrinkle in the new rules. This will definitely result in sensible bidders keeping their bids to themselves until at most an hour before the auction close. There’s no payoff at all for bidding early and there’s a definite benefit to waiting.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[diagem]

Date: 10/24/2007 9:29:44 AM
Author: denverappraiser
Seller can reduce reserve price up to one hour before auction close.

I just noticed this interesting wrinkle in the new rules. This will definitely result in sensible bidders keeping their bids to themselves until at most an hour before the auction close. There’s no payoff at all for bidding early and there’s a definite benefit to waiting.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

And Rap wants to commoditize Diamonds....???

I guess he will keep adding "new" rules..., until..........???

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 10/24/2007 11:45:04 AM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 10/24/2007 9:29:44 AM

And Rap wants to commoditize Diamonds....???

I guess he will keep adding 'new' rules..., until..........???

Until he gets it right or until he gives it up. It’s hard to get everything right the first time and trying something different is a necessary next step when you stumble. I’m not so sure it’s exactly right this time either but it’s an interesting twist to have a variable and published reserve amount. I don’t recall ever seeing an auction format that did it this way although sometimes the auctioneer will announce what the reserve is during the bidding or that a previously known one has lowered in order to encourage bidders. I suppose in some cases this announcement may have been planned well in advance as a matter of strategy. This seems to be having the opposite affect. The sellers have started with optimistic reserves that are clearly stated and labeled as subject to change so the buyers are waiting for the ‘real’ reserves to appear. Instead of encouraging people to bid, it’s encouraging them to remain silent.

There only seem to be about half a dozen stones repeated from the last auction to this one which surprises me a bit as well. Since there’s no cost to sellers to list a stone if it doesn’t sell, I figured the list of stones being offered would just grow and grow more or less indefinitely.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

 

[diagem]

Date: 10/24/2007 12:05:33 PM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 10/24/2007 11:45:04 AM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 10/24/2007 9:29:44 AM

And Rap wants to commoditize Diamonds....???

I guess he will keep adding ''new'' rules..., until..........???

Until he gets it right or until he gives it up. It’s hard to get everything right the first time and trying something different is a necessary next step when you stumble. I’m not so sure it’s exactly right this time either but it’s an interesting twist to have a variable and published reserve amount. I don’t recall ever seeing an auction format that did it this way although sometimes the auctioneer will announce what the reserve is during the bidding or that a previously known one has lowered in order to encourage bidders. I suppose in some cases this announcement may have been planned well in advance as a matter of strategy. This seems to be having the opposite affect. The sellers have started with optimistic reserves that are clearly stated and labeled as subject to change so the buyers are waiting for the ‘real’ reserves to appear. Instead of encouraging people to bid, it’s encouraging them to remain silent.

There only seem to be about half a dozen stones repeated from the last auction to this one which surprises me a bit as well. Since there’s no cost to sellers to list a stone if it doesn’t sell, I figured the list of stones being offered would just grow and grow more or less indefinitely.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

I figure..., if dealers didnt get a premium on the "so-called" auction..., they would be better of selling on the open market...
Why wait for the next auction if you can sell these type of Diamonds (Rap wants on his auction) right away!!!

 

[Quash]

So, here''s a question for the vendors/appraisers and experts on this forum:

What incentive is there for a dealer to take part in this auction, when:

-the wholesale price the vendor bought the diamond for at auction could be discovered by the subsequent purchaser or competitor, as they''re posting GIA certs. So, suddenly you know the vendors mark-up not only for that diamond but likely for their other diamonds, as well;
-the amount of detail and data provided for the diamond is limited;
-there''s not wholesaler or cutter to talk with about the diamond before purchase, who has it in front of them to inspect;
-you can''t call the diamond in to inspect and then return it if you''re not pleased;
-you can''t re-negotiate based on the product you receive.

I''m sure there are other issues. Please feel free to add or eliminate from the list.

Wouldn''t a vendors current system for acquiring diamonds wholesale, along with their developed relationships with cutters/wholesalers trump the value of taking part in Rappaport''s open auction?

Quash

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

At this time there are only 3 stones of well over 100 with bids above the reserve prices with 4 hours to go.
The vendors can lower their reserves up to 1 hour before end of auction.

The stones that I have viewed 3D files for on DiamCalc that were inscribed H&A''s are not even close to what would be considered well cut round these here parts.

There are many very interesting examples of GIA EX EX EX. John will be pleased to know you can paint and dig a fair bit on GIA stones now.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 10/25/2007 7:22:28 AM
Author: Quash

What incentive is there for a dealer to take part in this auction, when:

Quash

Beats me.

Obviously, just like all of us, the dealers are looking to buy the best diamonds at the best prices. This open fishbowl of pricescope where you have the potential to track individual stones is still pretty unusual and most shoppers are shopping in environments that are a bit less competitive but the ‘wholesale’ world is a pretty vicious place. For the vast majority dealers the public nature of it isn’t really much of a problem and it might even be a feature. Most consumers are amazed when they discover the thin margins that the competitive dealers work on because of the widely held belief that jewelers get 100% markups or more, that they’re making money hand over fist and that the whole thing is a scam from the get go.

Just like at retail, wholesalers compete on the strength of value added services that they provide their clients. This can include things like fast service, accurate and useful data (or inaccurate and optimistic data), financing, ‘free’ addons and all manner of creative ways of attracting customers. In the end the objective of the dealers is to buy things and resell them at a profit later and they need to weigh their various options against one another. It’s very competitive.

Date: 10/25/2007 7:22:28 AM
Author: Quash

Wouldn't a vendors current system for acquiring diamonds wholesale, along with their developed relationships with cutters/wholesalers trump the value of taking part in Rappaport's open auction?

Quash

Apparently so. In another few hours we’ll see how many of these 174 offers actually turn into a deal but any way you look at it, this is a tiny tiny piece of the business. What makes it interesting is how public it is. I wouldn’t be surprised if the dealers of Las Vegas move that many diamonds in a decent week but they’re much more difficult to watch.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[diagem]

Date: 10/25/2007 7:58:29 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
At this time there are only 3 stones of well over 100 with bids above the reserve prices with 4 hours to go.
The vendors can lower their reserves up to 1 hour before end of auction.

The stones that I have viewed 3D files for on DiamCalc that were inscribed H&A''s are not even close to what would be considered well cut round these here parts.

There are many very interesting examples of GIA EX EX EX. John will be pleased to know you can paint and dig a fair bit on GIA stones now.

I see only one stone above the reserve and two below..., am I not reading correctly?

 

[diagem]

Date: 10/25/2007 8:16:05 AM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 10/25/2007 7:22:28 AM
Author: Quash

What incentive is there for a dealer to take part in this auction, when:

Quash

Beats me.

Obviously, just like all of us, the dealers are looking to buy the best diamonds at the best prices. This open fishbowl of pricescope where you have the potential to track individual stones is still pretty unusual and most shoppers are shopping in environments that are a bit less competitive but the ‘wholesale’ world is a pretty vicious place. For the vast majority dealers the public nature of it isn’t really much of a problem and it might even be a feature. Most consumers are amazed when they discover the thin margins that the competitive dealers work on because of the widely held belief that jewelers get 100% markups or more, that they’re making money hand over fist and that the whole thing is a scam from the get go.

There are a lot of dealers out there that don''t have a consistent supply of these "higher"-quality Diamonds..., + the fact that they (dealers) have the opportunity to pinpoint their purchases is considered a "added value" for most...

Just like at retail, wholesalers compete on the strength of value added services that they provide their clients. This can include things like fast service, accurate and useful data (or inaccurate and optimistic data), financing, ‘free’ addons and all manner of creative ways of attracting customers. In the end the objective of the dealers is to buy things and resell them at a profit later and they need to weigh their various options against one another. It’s very competitive.

Date: 10/25/2007 7:22:28 AM
Author: Quash

Wouldn''t a vendors current system for acquiring diamonds wholesale, along with their developed relationships with cutters/wholesalers trump the value of taking part in Rappaport''s open auction?

Quash

Apparently so. In another few hours we’ll see how many of these 174 offers actually turn into a deal but any way you look at it, this is a tiny tiny piece of the business. What makes it interesting is how public it is. I wouldn’t be surprised if the dealers of Las Vegas move that many diamonds in a decent week but they’re much more difficult to watch.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

But it still seems like dealers are not running to pay these prices (as of yet!!!

)

I guess we will be smarter in a few hours..., but I dont expect any storms...

 

[diagem]

Rap just added an new (little) rule:


"Bidders may place bids up to 5% below the reserve price. Seller can reduce reserve price up to one hour before auction close."


Is that what you meant Neil?

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 10/25/2007 8:47:52 AM
Author: DiaGem
Rap just added an new (little) rule:



'Bidders may place bids up to 5% below the reserve price. Seller can reduce reserve price up to one hour before auction close.'

Is that what you meant Neil?

Auction dynamics is a whole artform in and of itself. People have written PhD’s theses on this topic and it’s a centuries old multi-billion dollar industry. There's a LOT of accumulated wisdom out there. It looks like the folks at Rap are trying to reinvent this as well as the commodities and diamond businesses. That’s a pretty ambitious plan. I like Martin, I like ambitious people and I like seeing people challenge the status quo but I must say it looks like a bit more homework might be in order if this is going to fly. The trifecta with 3 underdogs isn’t always the best place to start.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[denverappraiser]

Well, it’s over. We can get back to watching the World Series (Go Rockies) and other important things in life.

9/174 stones received bids.
1/174 received a bid above the minimum.
1/174 chose to lower the reserve while they could but still didn’t get a bid.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

 

[diagem]

I understand only one Diamond reached the original reserve price...
Eight others sold below... (or didnt???)

Hmmmm!!!!

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 10/25/2007 7:58:29 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

John will be pleased to know you can paint and dig a fair bit on GIA stones now.

Not if it's robbing Peter to pay Paul, Garry. It should be configuration-based. We worked with the lab to understand what they were doing and expected they'd relax on crown painting for some configs - but if it becomes too permissive across-the-board (shallow-painters for example) you have the opposite problem. We have not heard more digging would be permitted?

Sorry for the off-topic, but as long as we're just "Rapping..."

 

[Quash]

Okay, I have another question for the pros (scroll up a bit to see my first one, if you haven''t already).

This auction seems to have diamonds which are priced a decent clip below PS vendors and Bluenile, both of which I use as reference points (rightly or wrongly).

So, what would stop a vendor accepted by the Rappaport system from simply setting up a system where they will bid on behalf of a purchaser to a pre-determined maximum for a pre-determined diamond. The purchaser will then be obligated to pay a 10% markup for the diamond based on the reserve price (ensuring the vendor doesn''t bid to the max to increase their 10% fee). This would still give the purchaser the rock below most on-line vendors and create a profit for the vendor. It would involve the purchaser, by proxy, in the auction process. Plus, it would do it in a way that was transparent, which I think a lot of consumers might be interested in, given perceptions (whether false or true) about overly-inflated markups.

Quash

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 10/25/2007 3:07:00 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 10/25/2007 7:58:29 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

John will be pleased to know you can paint and dig a fair bit on GIA stones now.

Not if it''s robbing Peter to pay Paul, Garry. It should be configuration-based. We worked with the lab to understand what they were doing and expected they''d relax on crown painting for some configs - but if it becomes too permissive across-the-board (shallow-painters for example) you have the opposite problem. We have not heard more digging would be permitted?

Sorry for the off-topic, but as long as we''re just ''Rapping...''

good idea make their cut grade even more useless by giving in too the trade again.
Either their study found it bad or it didn''t they cant have it both ways.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 10/25/2007 3:39:26 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 10/25/2007 3:07:00 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 10/25/2007 7:58:29 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

John will be pleased to know you can paint and dig a fair bit on GIA stones now.

Not if it''s robbing Peter to pay Paul, Garry. It should be configuration-based. We worked with the lab to understand what they were doing and expected they''d relax on crown painting for some configs - but if it becomes too permissive across-the-board (shallow-painters for example) you have the opposite problem. We have not heard more digging would be permitted?

Sorry for the off-topic, but as long as we''re just ''Rapping...''

good idea make their cut grade even more useless by giving in too the trade again.
Either their study found it bad or it didn''t they cant have it both ways.

There were 70,000 observations but made by only 300+ people, most in the trade. The brillianteering qualifications & sample were not thorough enough. It''s all about configuration. I can line up a dozen top fine-makes with varying degrees of painting just below, at and just above the threshold and you won''t see a difference. Do the same with shallows and you will. Do the same with steeps and you''ll like those with more painting better. This blanket-approach was never sophisticated enough Strm. A fluid metric is needed.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 10/25/2007 3:38:22 PM
Author: Quash
Okay, I have another question for the pros (scroll up a bit to see my first one, if you haven't already).


This auction seems to have diamonds which are priced a decent clip below PS vendors and Bluenile, both of which I use as reference points (rightly or wrongly).


So, what would stop a vendor accepted by the Rappaport system from simply setting up a system where they will bid on behalf of a purchaser to a pre-determined maximum for a pre-determined diamond. The purchaser will then be obligated to pay a 10% markup for the diamond based on the reserve price (ensuring the vendor doesn't bid to the max to increase their 10% fee). This would still give the purchaser the rock below most on-line vendors and create a profit for the vendor. It would involve the purchaser, by proxy, in the auction process. Plus, it would do it in a way that was transparent, which I think a lot of consumers might be interested in, given perceptions (whether false or true) about overly-inflated markups.


Quash

Here’s an example of a more or less random one that didn’t make the reserve. I chose it because it’s superficially the sort of thing that shoppers look for here.

Lot #137,
1.74cts./G/VS2
VG cut
Ex polish
VG symmetry
7.60x7.65x4.77
$14,638 reserve.

I didn’t save the cert or the sarin and it’s not online anymore but, for arguments sake, let’s assume that it’s at least a pretty good example of stone with the above specs.

Add a 10% dealer commission and we’re up to $15,771. No inspection, no returns, cash sale, you pay shipping. Buy it sight unseen and it’s yours to do with as you will.

A quick search of the PS database for 1.74-1.76 G/VS2/GIA produces 27 stones. Ignoring the 5 most expensive and 5 cheapest as likely having other issues at play and you’re looking at a range of 17 stones with asking prices from $16,025 - $16,771.
All are prepared to have you order it any time, day or night and they’ll get it out to you within a day or two, all will allow you to return it if you’re unhappy for any reason, all will take credit card payments and all would love to set you up with a ring to mount it in if you but ask their friendly salespeople about it. Most will even toss in a ‘free’ cleaning cloth or velvet bag.

Is it possible to do as you suggest? Yes, and I suspect that this will start happening. Is the savings worth the tradeoffs? It’s up to you but for most customers I sort of doubt it. Expert dealers (apparently) refuse to buy under these terms for their own inventories, are you sure you want to do it as a consumer?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

 

[Quash]

Yes, and I suspect that this will start happening. Is the savings worth the tradeoffs? It’s up to you but for most customers I sort of doubt it. Expert dealers (apparently) refuse to buy under these terms for their own inventories, are you sure you want to do it as a consumer?

I actually completely agree with you. Unless it was a significant savings, I wouldn''t do it. Now that I''ve done it once, sending to an appraiser before purchase is the only way I''d ever purchase a diamond. And a 10% savings wouldn''t be enough for me to change that. You''ll note my earlier post regarding Why a Vendor Would Even Take Part in This Auction notes the same concerns you raise. As a dealer, I''d much rather be able to call in diamonds, return them, build trusting relationships with wholesalers and cutters... A more conservative method for acquiring diamonds, I think, that would afford me greater protection, as a dealer. Which is why I can''t understand how this method of auctions will take off for wholesalers/vendor transactions.

That said, I wonder if we started comparing diamonds between 1ct and 1.2ct, if the price reduction you''d get by purchasing from a Rappaport Auction would be more significant, when compared to online retailers.

Quash

 

[denverappraiser]

The auction results page shows 8 stones that didn’t make the reserve but that had a valid bid as well as the one that actually sold. I think it’s reasonable to assume that the bids were 5% below the reserve so you can estimate what reserve +10% would be and you can compare the results to offers in the database here just as I have done with the 1.74 above. Let us know what you come up with.

Few would describe 1 stone sold out of 174 offers as 'taking off' but I guess this depends on your standards for success. Martin et. al. make 3% off of every stone that sells so they got $236 gross this month. Whoo hoo.

I wish them all the best for next months sale. I'ld still buy stock in Rapaport group if I could but so far this doesn't seem to be their best venture.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Sad - looks like it will not work - back to the drawing board.

Date: 10/25/2007 3:54:38 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 10/25/2007 3:39:26 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 10/25/2007 3:07:00 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 10/25/2007 7:58:29 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

John will be pleased to know you can paint and dig a fair bit on GIA stones now.

Not if it''s robbing Peter to pay Paul, Garry. It should be configuration-based. We worked with the lab to understand what they were doing and expected they''d relax on crown painting for some configs - but if it becomes too permissive across-the-board (shallow-painters for example) you have the opposite problem. We have not heard more digging would be permitted?

Sorry for the off-topic, but as long as we''re just ''Rapping...''

good idea make their cut grade even more useless by giving in too the trade again.
Either their study found it bad or it didn''t they cant have it both ways.

There were 70,000 observations but made by only 300+ people, most in the trade. The brillianteering qualifications & sample were not thorough enough. It''s all about configuration. I can line up a dozen top fine-makes with varying degrees of painting just below, at and just above the threshold and you won''t see a difference. Do the same with shallows and you will. Do the same with steeps and you''ll like those with more painting better. This blanket-approach was never sophisticated enough Strm. A fluid metric is needed.

Re the paining - Agree with above comments

I looked at about 20 .srns and they were mostly painted.

Did not compare all the reports - but the few I checked - only one had a paining mention. Some were shallows and i would have thought they deserved a drop from say VG to G, but did not study it close enough to have any evidence to back it up - and now the reports are not available online.

 

[diagem]

Date: 10/25/2007 8:28:43 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Sad - looks like it will not work - back to the drawing board.

Yes..., for some reason Rap is not only having a problem trying to commoditize Diamond prices..., but I don''t really understand why "most" of these Diamonds remain unsold!!! I guess polished price resistance is high!

Comparing this polished Diamond tender to other rough Diamond tenders makes the rough look like "Uranium"

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

As the Man says: the way to get rich in the diamond biz is to invent a machine to turn polished into rough.

Rough is worth more and harder to commoditize

But the real answer to all of this would be to change the gross dependence of all the people and processes away from black T model Fords (RBC''s)

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 10/26/2007 2:32:00 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

But the real answer to all of this would be to change the gross dependence of all the people and processes away from black T model Fords (RBC''s)

kewl a chicken in every pot i mean an asscher on every female''s finger!

 

[diagem]

Date: 10/26/2007 2:32:00 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
As the Man says: the way to get rich in the diamond biz is to invent a machine to turn polished into rough.

Rough is worth more and harder to commoditize

But the real answer to all of this would be to change the gross dependence of all the people and processes away from black T model Fords (RBC''s)

Like I said before..., its all about illusion!!!!!

And in Rough material..., all the shapes are in it until you actually start ruining (cutting) the rough