Rapaport Diamond Report

[Lady Lulu]

I spoke to a NYC jewelry designer yesterday who mentioned I should buy a diamond based on "percentage off of Rap". How do you get a Rap report and/or will most vendors share that information with you? How do you know you are getting a good deal?

 

[JulieN]

read this: https://www.pricescope.com/prices.asp

 

[codex57]

Date: 5/12/2006 6:11:55 PM
Author:Lady LuLu
I spoke to a NYC jewelry designer yesterday who mentioned I should buy a diamond based on ''percentage off of Rap''. How do you get a Rap report and/or will most vendors share that information with you? How do you know you are getting a good deal?

A % back doesn''t tell you much. Many dealers will show you the Rap sheet and exclaim how much of a discount they''re giving you. You just have to remember that as you get one factor (Carat, Clarity, and Color... not sure if Cut is in there), you get a greater % away from the "Rap price." It gets pretty confusing and I did attempt to memorize the Rap approximate price of a stone I was looking at and then run back here to compare to the online stores.

In the end, I decided the easiest way to compare prices was to memorize (or write down) the specs and then check back here for online store prices of similar stones. I''d check with my ideal stone to make sure they were ideal cut or H&A or whatever if the stone claimed to be one.

 

[denverappraiser]

Lulu,

As a consumer, Rap isn''t likely to be helpful and it''s very likely to lead you to a false conclusion. Here''s why.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Dancing Fire]

i always ask the vendor what is the Rap price. i would be mad

if i found out that i paid way over Rap for the stone. it never hurt to ask.

 

[diagem]

These day''s, it is not unusual to pay over Rap..., even when it comes to wholesale...

Not to mention most 5 cts. and larger diamonds, most of them trade at higher $$$ than Rap.

Which shows that the Rap-list is becoming "irrelevant"!!!!

 

[elmo]

It might be useful information if you're buying a superideal round in a fairly narrow size/color/clarity range. It gives a useful frame of reference to compare pricing of superideal h&a 1.22 D-VS1 from GOG, 1.25 E-VS2 from WF, and 1.28 F-VVS2 from your local jeweler. I think a lot of pricescope folks end up with a decision like this. This is an exceptional and specific case though.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/14/2006 6:28:06 AM
Author: DiaGem
These day''s, it is not unusual to pay over Rap..., even when it comes to wholesale...

Not to mention most 5 cts. and larger diamonds, most of them trade at higher $$$ than Rap.

Which shows that the Rap-list is becoming ''irrelevant''!!!!

Hmmm....so irrelevant that every diamond dealers/vendors still use it.

 

[diagem]

Date: 5/15/2006 2:18:38 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 5/14/2006 6:28:06 AM
Author: DiaGem
These day''s, it is not unusual to pay over Rap..., even when it comes to wholesale...

Not to mention most 5 cts. and larger diamonds, most of them trade at higher $$$ than Rap.

Which shows that the Rap-list is becoming ''irrelevant''!!!!

Hmmm....so irrelevant that every diamond dealers/vendors still use it.

Yes, they use it... (creatures of habit), but these days the range of prices vs. the Rap-list is tremendous...

For example one dealer might for a three carat f-vs1 -15%, another will ask +5%...

That means to me that it is slowly becoming irrelevant....,

These ranges were never this far out...

 

[denverappraiser]

DF,

The Rap list is extremely useful, it’s just not useful for the purpose that Lulu has in mind. When a dealer quotes a stones as 20-back, it is well understood by everyone in the trade that this means that the stone is being offered for 80% of the Rap listed price. If Rap goes up, the stone goes up, if Rap goes down the stone goes down. This allows the dealers to easily index their goods to a rapidly changing marketplace. Where it fails is when you try to use it to compare superficially similar stones. One 1.00-SI2-F is 10-over and another is 45-back. That’s a factor of two difference in price. Which is a better deal? This is exactly the sort of thing that Lulu is trying to decide and it simply isn’t addressed by the Rap list.
As has been pointed out above, certain types of stones are easy to buy at steep discounts while others are effectively impossible. This varies with time. Currently a correctly graded round 1.75ct VVS2-F at 30% back is an impossible request, even if it’s a dreadful cut. A stone claimed to be 1.01 SI3-I is easy to find at that price. An uninformed shopper, when presented a stone at 40-back can, and often is, led to believe that this is evidence that they are being offered a great bargain. It may be true but, for this purpose, Rap is irrelevant.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Capitol Bill]

I would tend to agree with the point I believe DiaGem is making:

Rap is a useful tool in the ct sizes were stones are relatively plentiful (.50 - 2.00). As carat weight increases (3ct+) decent stones are becoming so few and far between that Rap-based pricing is all over the map. In terms of Rap''s relevance in the 5ct+ range in today''s market...fuhgetaboutit.

Bill Scherlag

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/15/2006 8:16:04 AM
Author: denverappraiser

DF,

The Rap list is extremely useful, it’s just not useful for the purpose that Lulu has in mind. When a dealer quotes a stones as 20-back, it is well understood by everyone in the trade that this means that the stone is being offered for 80% of the Rap listed price. If Rap goes up, the stone goes up, if Rap goes down the stone goes down. This allows the dealers to easily index their goods to a rapidly changing marketplace. Where it fails is when you try to use it to compare superficially similar stones. One 1.00-SI2-F is 10-over and another is 45-back. That’s a factor of two difference in price. Which is a better deal? This is exactly the sort of thing that Lulu is trying to decide and it simply isn’t addressed by the Rap list.

As has been pointed out above, certain types of stones are easy to buy at steep discounts while others are effectively impossible. This varies with time. Currently a correctly graded round 1.75ct VVS2-F at 30% back is an impossible request, even if it’s a dreadful cut. A stone claimed to be 1.01 SI3-I is easy to find at that price. An uninformed shopper, when presented a stone at 40-back can, and often is, led to believe that this is evidence that they are being offered a great bargain. It may be true but, for this purpose, Rap is irrelevant.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

Neil
i know exactly what you''re saying.i only use Rap to compare well cut stones.i said it many times here "when its too good to be true " RUN FAST!!!

too many uninformed shoppers buys a ring on e-bay,comes here to post "thinking they just hit the jackpot"

i''m usually the first to advise them to send it back b/c it ain''t what they think it is.

 

[diagem]

Date: 5/15/2006 11:03:02 AM
Author: Capitol Bill
I would tend to agree with the point I believe DiaGem is making:

Rap is a useful tool in the ct sizes were stones are relatively plentiful (.50 - 2.00). As carat weight increases (3ct+) decent stones are becoming so few and far between that Rap-based pricing is all over the map. In terms of Rap's relevance in the 5ct+ range in today's market...fuhgetaboutit.

Bill Scherlag

Bill, dont "believe"..., you are right on the money!!!

And as i see it these day's..., comodities are flying north with the prices, for example metals, oil etc. etc...
My opinion is that diamonds will follow...

First sign is coming from the DTC, they have no problem anymore that sightholders return or give up their rights to purchase their boxes...
It used to be penalty day when a sightholder didnt pick up their assortment box..., i guess DTC doesnt mind stocking up on Diamonds these days...,
I think its a sign of whats coming in the future...