Radiant cut dimensions - Advice needed

[Rascal]

Hello everyone,

I must say how happy I am to have found this site. It''s an absolute amazing resource.

Now to take advantage of it...

I am looking for a radiant cut diamond for an e-ring (approx. 1.5-2C, F-G, VS1-2 is what I have looking for).

I have recently been offered the following stone:

1.56 C
Color - E
Clarity - VVS1
Dimensions: 6.5 X 6.21 X 4.77
Depth - 76.8%
Table - 75%
Girdle - slightly thick to Thick
Culet - None
Polish - Very Good
Symmetry - Very Good
Flourescence - None

Now the stone looks pretty nice, but I am hesitant in light of the table and depth measurements.

I''d appreciate any advice you guys have. Thanks.

 

[EdSkinner]

depth and table are both in class 3b, so the cut isn't that good. Nice color and clarity, who graded it? I'd pass, unless the price real cheep,and go down in clarity and up in cut.

 

[Nicrez]

I just went through this search myself for a stone with identical specs. We finally went with Henry Grossbard's The Radiant Cut stone to minimize all the "junk" of table and depth over 70% cuts out there. We wanted a 2ct, but fell short in carats to get a really great well cut stone with no bow-ties and no fisheyes, and a higher precision of cut (NOT possible in most radiants)




Do a search on Radiants and you'll see nothing but bad tables and depths, because the cut is so unrefined and unmonitored. Everyone has their own cut, and I have seen radiants with princess patterns on the pavillions, and a whole set of weird cuts claiming to be "radiants". I know q few places that carry lots of them, but none are really that good from what we found. http://www.DirtCheapDiamonds.com was helpful, as well as http://www.BuyDiamondsDirect.com (speak with Ron in Miami, he's great!), and for your final resort, if you don't mind spending a bit more for a better stone, try http://www.Radiantcut.com.




Good luck!!!

 

[Rascal]

Ed,

The stone is GIA graded.

The price is $8900 (I know a wholesaler in NYC). Would it be worth it at this price, or should I tell him to keep looking?

Nicrez,

I agree, most of what I've seen is spotty. But the fact that I have this relationship makes it hard to consider branded cuts. Maybe I'll have to start.

 

[Nicrez]

You may have a relationship, but what he is selling you for ANY amount of money, especially $8K, IS NOT WORTH IT. It's a yucky stone. The cut is done so deep that it has excess carat weight (which you pay for) that does nothing but diminish the proper proportions of your stone, and doesn't allow it to sparkle and cast fiery reflections. You may have a relationship, but you should ask for a "good deal" for a better stone. Nothing wrong with that.




By the way, hitting a 2ct mark will push you over twice your current price, so stick with 1.5 and 1.7s or so for size, but don't hit the 2 mark. It's not worth it.

 

[EdSkinner]

The price being asked is ok for a wholesale cost. The stone is listed on one survey at 6400p/c. Because of the cut there has to be at least a 15 to 20% deduction off of this cost. So using 15% you bring the p/c $$ down to 5440 p/c,x 1.56 ct.=8486 wholesale cost for the stone. If I had to put full retail replacment value on it I would be over 14000. And if you shopped around in the B&M stores you could get it for about 9400 (+-). And you could probally get less over the internet. He is asking 8900, you decide. But like I said before I would go down in clarity and up in cut. Question, if this for an ER, does she want a radiant cut?

 

[Nicrez]

Also a little FYI, if you are looking for size for less, this stone isn't the best for that, because the larger you get in size, the harder it is to find a good cut. Smaller radiants are better cut, not quite sure why.




Also, this stone demands a colorless or at least a nearly colorless grade, and a fairly eye clean stone, because it is not as sparkly as a round stone. You will see more color and more inclusions in this shape than your regular round, so that will make your search criteria lesses, add carat at 1.5-2ct and that's a tough search. THEN try to find a stone that is well cut within those parameters!




We searched over 45 different vendors of stones for our within a 2 monthly daily search. Seriously, we were obsessed. Finally found the little guy, but i can almost guarantee you that your search can most likely take you a few months. If that's OK, and she's looking for a radiant as I was, then good luck, but DON'T settle for a bad cut. In the end, it IS worth the premium for a well cut, smaller stone, because this thing shines like a round brilliant (as it is designed to!) All the other bad cuts just look sad in comparison! Trust me!

 

[Iceman]

Nicrez

Your post on who carries lots of them. Get this~ big surprise they dont !

They post paper , blue Nile carries more inventory of their own then most. The others post more paper then they have diamonds.

When we as jewelers can call up any cutting house and get a diamond overnight we dont have to own it.

Did it ever dawn on you why if you ask for one diamond that 10 people have it posted

There is nothing wrong with posting pages, but these people that make up these webpages get people to think its all in stock.

You can ask any jeweler that has access to Polygon to look up what is in the nations stockpile

 

[Nicrez]

Iceman, Ok, what was your point?

I assume you are a jeweler...




Did it ever dawn on my why stock piles overlapped? Yes, because we knew cutters who sold to 4-5 different sources for retail. I also know that a large majority of jewelers in the NYC area use the same siteholders, cutters and distributors. What's your point?

Am I supposed to go on and on about jewelers who can't possibly carry all their stones in every size, color, cut and style? They are just as limited as their internet guy, if not MORE, because they have to BUY stones and pay for overhead. What was your point?

If he is simply doing a search, independant of service and all that other extra stuff, I suggested that he try these places.




Who cares who owns the stone, when the person knows which one he likes and if the internet price is cheaper, then why not get it there...? I had a jeweler show me a stone he owned and we liked it he quoted us $16K. Then we saw the SAME GIA certified stone online for $12.5K. Who would we buy from? The guy who "owns" the stone, or the guy who just had the "paper" and culd get it to us for $12.5? What was your point?

I'm sorry if that threatens you as a jeweler. Lots of poeple shop online, and if you can carry the stone he seeks at a good price, then good, you get the sale. If not, someone else does. B&M or not...In the end I bought from a jeweler who carried a specific brand stone and paid a premium.




What was your point again?

 

[Rascal]

Ed,

Yes, it for an e-ring and she does want a radiant cut. She wants something different, so doesn't want a round stone. I briefly looked into the Regent cut and Queen of Hearts, but the premiums for these stones, and lack of inventory, make it difficult to seriously consider them.

I would love to go down in clarity and up in cut. I just need to find the right stone.

Nicrez,

I am not looking for size for less. I'm just looking for a radiant stone, as this is what my GF likes.

 

[EdSkinner]

If you are in a bind for time and you are satisfied with the stone your friend has in NYC. Buy it. His price is fair. If not don't. With alittle bit of luck this is the only engagement ring you will ever have to buy. Personally, I'd tell him to keep looking. VVS1 clarity is nice, but as far as Iam concerned it is a waste of money. Move the clarity down to VS1 or VS2. Try to stay in the same color range, not many people will be able to tell the difference between and E or F. Try to keep the weight over 1.50 ct. But don't worry about it if it has to be smaller. Mind you 1.50 is a critical weight for pricing, but so is 1.00 and 2.00 ct. Get a certificate stone, preferable AGS, GIA (with a sarin report)even EGL (they are sometimes light on color & or clarity, and they are also right on sometimes) but at least it would give you the characteristics to determin cut. Also get it appraised by and independant appraiser (not another retailer) before you finish the deal. So lets figure your friend finds a 1.35 ct. radiant cut, VS2, F, 2b cut. Wholesale cost around 4100 p/c. At this point I would not make any deductions for cut, but add an additional 5% for size. Making K @ 5535 for the stone. Full retail would be about 9700 So you might be able to get it at a B&M for about 6300 to 6700. You will have something for less that probally look better. I can't dictate what he has to sell it for, but that sounds like a fair price for something of that ilk. I can't tell you to buy that stone or not, but if you are not in a hurry, look around some more. If she knows she is getting it, why don't you shop with her and let her pick the stone. Maybe you will save some money that you can spend on the honeymoon.

 

[Nicrez]

Rascal, well I was just trying to make sure, only because this stone does take a fair amount of searching to find a well cut stone, and although not impossible (we did it), it's just disheartening sometimes to see so many badly cut ones to choose from.




That being said, you really should stick to a radiant with lower depth and tables %s, under 70% each, because it DOES add a certain brilliance and fire to the stone when it's cut properly.




I do agree with Ed that you can go to VS1 or VS2, but I don't suggest any color lowere than G in a radiant, as they show color much more than rounds. That way you could gain in size, and not sacrifice any visible quality. Again, I asure you'll find it tough to find a good quality, well cut stone, but keep calling people, check on-line and contact as many sources as you can, or have this guy keep looking. I know you'll find the right stone. When you do, it will jump out at you!

 

[Rascal]

Ed and Nicrez,

Thanks for all your help and advice. Since I am not in a hurry, and my GF knows it is coming "eventually," it makes sense to keep looking.

As you say, it will hopefully be the only one I will purchase. I/we can wait to find the right stone. I'm very patient (and very picky).

 

[Nicrez]

If you are looking, might as well try the www.radiantcut.com, and see if anyone sells the stones near you. That's what we eventually went with (although we searched and searched) we didn't find anyone else in NYC who carried well-proportioned stones. Seriously, even if you don't buy, just SEE the stones, I am sure they will be pretty well made. Use it as a point of reference, against other stones, but who knows, you may fall in love. After all Henry Grossbard DID invent the cut! Good luck and post some stones when you see them!

 

[icelady]

Rascal,

I have to agree that the Radiant you posted may be a little bit too deep, but I do NOT agree that you HAVE to stay below 70 on depth. My Radiant is 70.3 and has phenomenal sparkle and fire!

I do believe in actually laying eyes on as many Radiants as you can because of the lack of standards, the cuts are all over the place. I would have made the mistake of passing this stone up if I had only looked at the GIA cert and stayed under 70 for depth!

Good luck, I know you will find YOUR stone!

 

[Nicrez]

Hey Icelady!

Our radiant depth is 69% I believe and although it's just below 70%, it's fabulous! I just gave him the 70% as a guideline...in otherwords, not 74%+ depths... 70-71 are still OK, and of course it depends on the stone, but those were just helpful guidelines we found worked the best for brilliance and fire...




Rascal check out icelady's posts on her stone in Show Me The Ring (eyecandy folder) It's to drool for!

 

[icelady]

Hi Nicrez!

Congrats on your Radiant!

Can you publish your specs yet??? I know you will post the mandatory EYE-CANDY when you get it!!!!

When did you make the purchase?

Rascal-again-good luck with your search!

 

[Rascal]

Icelady,

I just saw your ring pics. Very nice!

I'm going to keep looking. The guy my brother bought his ring from has a 2C G VS1 radiant that he wants to show me, but he's out of town next week, so I'll have to wait a bit.

BTW, in your thread with you ring pics you mention the spec listed by AGS, Pricescope and gemappraisers. I found gemappraiser's site and tables, but where can I find the listings of AGS?

Thanks.

 

[Nicrez]

Yes Icelady's radiant, is...RADIANT!

I LOVE your ring!!!




Rascal, here's the AGA cut chart we all use that is listed here on PriceScope. It's found in the tutorial section and can be quickly accessed right under the PriceScope logo on the top left of the page.




http://diamonds.pricescope.com/fnc2.asp




Icelady, I will post the specs once I get the ring, because although I helped to pic it out, I am banned from seeing it in it's temporary setting. I am VERY picky and want a well done, very simple, elegant and unique solitaire setting, but I haven't decided on who'se quality and work I like (as i still need some good platinumsmith's names in NYC) So we set it in a $60 white gold band which will do...BUT I DON'T KNOW WHEN I'll GET IT!!!

So as soon as I know the FULL specs and I get it to take some pics...It's an E VVS1, 1.73cts, with D & T under 70%, but full details will follow...

 

[Rascal]

Nicrez,

I'm going to take your advice and at least take a look at The Radiant Cut. I'm in NYC. Did you say you got your stone here in the City? Where do recommend I go to see The Radiant Cut?

Thanks