Questions about jewelers and diamonds

[bpilgrim]

Hello Everyone,

I''m searching for a diamond engagement ring for my girlfriend. I''m probably going to by in the 0.7-0.8 F/G VS1 range. I''ve done quite a bit of online research and have visited many jewelers in the area (Virginia suburbs of DC.) At any rate, I feel like I''m nearing the end of my search and have some questions just to ease my mind - possibly just going through everything will help me answer my own question....


1.) Online vs Local: First off, do you pay sales taxes when you buy online? Secondly, how do you deal with getting the ring sized if your guess isn''t quite perfect? Also, what do you do about cleaning, inspections, and repairs? How much do all those things cost? Would you suggest buying the stone online and getting it set locally? Do jewelry stores get upset that you didn''t purchase the diamond from them? I''m not sure whether I really save money by buying online - mainly I would be reassured by the extra info like brilliancescope and sarin measurements that I''m getting a great diamond.

2) Certifications: I understand that AGS and GIA are the best certificates to have. How much can I trust EGL, though? There''s a local jeweler that I like very much - he''s very straightforward, seems to be honest, and has excellent prices. Anyways, 99.9% of his diamonds are GIA certs, but the one that I like the best has an EGL. Here''s the line on it:

0.8 E VS1 Depth: 60.4 Table: 57 Girdle: N-N F
Culet: N Polish/Symmetry: EX EX Flour: M
Price: $3200

The jeweler lets me use whatever lighting I want: bright, dim, flourescent, halogen, sunlight at the window. This stone looks great in all of them - I couldn''t see any noticeable difference in "sparkliness" from an AGS Ideal that I was comparing it to (0.83 F SI1 with a black (yuck!) inclusion visible from the bottom.) As far as I can tell, it is definitely more clean than all the GIA SI1s I''ve seen, so I doubt that the clarity rating would ever rank lower than VS2. Color is hard for me to judge in the D/E/F range, but it was definitely whiter than a couple of G color GIA stones that I looked at.

I guess my question is: do I trust what I see and trust the EGL cert to be accurate, or do I go with the peace of mind of buying online from someplace like goodoldgold or superbcert? I do plan on getting it indepentently appraised and the store does have a return policy......

One last thing: anyone have any sneaky suggestions of how to find out my girlfriends taste in settings?

Thanks in advance!
Paul

 

[strmrdr]

No tax online if the vendor isnt in the same state as you.


egl ny is sometimes close any of the others are often way off.
The only way id buy one is if an independant appraiser gives me the true ratings first.

Sizing: have it done localy or send it back to the vendor.
Inspections etc. - best find someone local.
The good ones wont get mad if you bring in a diamond you didnt buy from them they get it all the time.
Now if you used up 20 hours of his time then brought in a diamond from elsewhere dont be suprised if even the best might get a little grumpy at times.
Usualy online you have a choice can either save a lot of money or get more diamond for your money.
I havent heard anyone come on here and say the got a better price at a b&m on a comparable diamond.

Frankly Id buy from GOG or superbcert either one over a b&m.


If you would like we would be happy to help you hunt online but we need some more information.
size range?
acceptable clarity?
acceptable color?
budget?
ideal ags0 or super-ideal h&a?

 

[bpilgrim]

Thanks for the input. I generally would prefer GIA or AGS certs over EGL, but don't know how far off EGL can be. Where on the certificate can I see which EGL lab it comes from? It must be in the fine print because it definitely didn't jump off the page at me.

To be honest, I guess that I'm not necessarily sold on the "super ideal" cuts. I went to the local vendor of HoF diamonds to take a look. Sure, it was a beautiful stone, but it wasn't obviously much better than the better of the AGS0 stones that I've seen -- those that score well on the HCA and also show the "arrows" when looking at them from the top (no special viewer.) Possibly, by being careful of the AGS0s I would pick out myself, I'm finding stones that would be H&As or close if looked at with the viewer.

As far as pricing, it must be a fairly competitive market in DC because, with enough searching, I've found reputable places that sell stones for within a few percent of the online stores (for comparable numbers GIA/AGS) DC has some diamond importers/wholesalers who also sell to the local market (dirtcheapdiamonds, for example is in a DC sububrb.) So the savings online amounts to a couple of percent plus the sales tax (4.5% in Virginia.) So, for at the very most 8%, I get a local jeweler who will do sizing and lifetime cleanings and repairs for free. By buying online, what I can be assured of is getting a diamond that is not only a good AGS0, but a full "super-ideal" at the same price as the "regular" ideal.

Maybe I should go for the best of both worlds and order the stone online and get a setting at a local jeweler who'll do the sizings and cleanings for me. But I'm not sure whether those things come as freely without having bought the stone from them as well.

If you do have fun searching for diamonds online, I'm looking for something in the ballpark of 0.7-0.8, F/G, VS1/2 either a good AGS0 or a H&A. My budget is roughly $3500 for the stone. Maybe you'll find something that I didn't see myself.

Thanks again for your help.

-Paul

 

[strmrdr]

Someone posted a scan of an egl ny cert and it had egl ny at the top.
I wouldnt consider any of the other egl certs it will be too hit and miss sending diamonds in to an independant appraiser to do the job egl was suposed to do.
With egl ny you can atleast get ballpark and have a better chance of getting a good result back from the appraiser.

You can save some money by going egl but keep in mind they are cheaper for a reason.

 

[strmrdr]

some options...
.82 h vs1 h&a 3398
Would need to get actual photos and not stock images on that one and run hca on it.



.71 g vs2 h&a 2717
again run hca and get firescope results.

awesome h GOG diamond in your price range

another awesome gog .84 eyeclean h si2

Id be real tempted to snag the .84 gog diamond. if he says its eyeclean it will be.
It has it all and check the price its the same price as the egl diamond you were looking at.

 

[strmrdr]

another gog just over your budget but nice g vs2 .80

 

[Giangi]

Could you post the cert # so that I can tell you which EGL Lab issued the report??

 

[elmo]

If having GIA or AGS paper makes you feel better about the stone, by all means make the sale contingent upon obtaining a satisfactory GIA or AGS report. For that size, it costs not much more than $100. Maybe you pay if it comes back with the desired result, dealer pays if not and you can walk away from the deal.

 

[aljdewey]

I'd suggest considering these stones as well:




From whiteflash: .93, G, SI2, GIA, for $3183


http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=GIA-13013777 - This has FANTASTIC proportions




From whiteflash: .89, F, SI1, GIA for $3266


http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/diamond_Details.aspx?itemcode=GIA-13013737#




From Dirt cheap diamonds: .88, G, SI2, AGS0 for $3052


http://www.dirtcheapdiamonds.com/diamond_detail.cfm?did=6908671

 

[hoorray]

Congrats bpilgrim on taking the big step!

My 2cents is to not worry about the cleanings and inspections. I've never met a jeweler who won't do those things for me, whether or not I've ever bought from them. They tend to do it a customer service to encourage you to come into their store -- you end up browsing while you wait for it to be done, and I always end up trying something on. As a service, it shouldn't influence who you buy from. They will ALWAYS do it for you for free.

Another option might be to buy the setting locally and send it to the online vendor to do the setting. Lots of people do this with good luck. Or, just buy them both from the online vendor. Both Superbcert and GOG have a nice setting collection.

I believe that if you know what you are doing, you can buy equal quality for close to the same price from an independent B&M if they know they are competing with online prices. No sales tax is sometimes hard for them to compete against, but at least your is only 4.5% not the 8.x% of CA. I tend to feel that the selection if greater online, but if you know what you want, most of the brokered stones are probably available to your jeweler as well as the online people.

Lastely, EGL stones can be a good deal, but non-NY ones would rarely be graded the same by GIA -- usually a color and/or clarity lower at least. If you know this and are paying the price of a lower graded stone, then you might find a bargin. Don't pay the price of a comparable GIA stone graded the same tho!

Good luck!

 

[bpilgrim]

Thanks everyone, for your advice. There are some really great looking stones that you've pointed out. I also like the following stones:

0.72 G VS1

0.74 H VS2

Personally, I'm probably going to stay away from the SIs. An SI is an SI, whether its "eye clean" or not and I haven't found any that I like so far.

I guess before I decide, I need to find out where the EGL cert came from on the stone I looked at in town here. Too bad the jewelery is closed until Tuesday!

I'd hate to wait 3 weeks to get GIA to certify it. I think that getting the opionion of the best appraiser in the area, Martin Fuller, would satisfy me as to the stones true ratings. I plan on taking whatever I buy there for verification/insurance reasons. Maybe I can convince the jeweler to send it there before I purchase it.

Thanks again for all your help!
Paul

 

[hoorray]

Those are both great looking stones. I guess it comes down to a color/price tradeoff on these, as I don't think you'll notice a difference in the clarity -- VS 1 or 2 are both likely to be eye-clean.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

Hi Paul,

I don't really have any advice to you on your diamond question, but I will say that I know exactly which jeweler you're talking about! He's in Fairfax, right? We bought our engagement ring from him too, and are really happy with the service and prices. In fact, we just had the ring appraised by Martin Fuller, who said we got exactly what GIA said, if not better (the VS1 was very close to a VVS2 apparently). Plus, best of all, we got the stone for over $300 LESS than wholesale, according to Martin, who was extremely surprised, and did a double take at the wholesale price.

Good luck with the diamond search!

 

[fire&ice]

EGL has too labs in the US - NY & LA. It is the EGL Israel certs that can be problematic.

Also, the EGL cert should have some cut information like crown & pavillion percentages. If the cert is relatively new, the rounding usually doesn't occur.

Third, did I read correctly that the EGL stone has Medium Fluor. Is it blue? Also, in the colorless range DEF, Med Fluor will discount the stone a tad. Personally, I like stones w/ fluor. Make sure the stone doesn't look cloudy/oily in direct sunlight.

Good luck.

 

[bpilgrim]

mmeowcollins,

I think we're talking about the same place! Are you happy with the setting that you got? The work on it was done well? What style was it, if you don't mind my asking? Its good to know that other people who bought there are happy with what they got.

Just to let everyone know, I think that I'm going to stop looking around for a couple of days (its easy to get obsessed with this stuff!) until at least Tuesday, when I can find out which EGL lab did the certification on the stone I like in town. If it is NY (is Los Angeles as good?) then I think I will go ahead with that stone, as it really was as pretty I've seen so far (including the HoF stone for way more $$$$) and as long as the E VS1 is in the ballpark, its still a great value. If its NOT from NY (or LA?) then I'll probably go with an online option -- some places, including Superbcert, as I understand, will send everything directly to the appraiser before I even have to pay. That sounds like the way to go with an online purchase to me.....

Well, thanks everyone for all your help! Plus all the great info in all the archive posts that I looked through!

-Paul

 

[strmrdr]

Your welcome
Please let us know what you decide and post pictures!!! when you get it.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

Paul,

I love the setting I got- it's your standard die struck generic Tiffany-style 6 prong in platinum. I believe you can order settings if they don't carry them in-store. I think the work done there was really good too. We also bought our wedding bands there too, and got good prices. I made a Hearts and Arrows pendant for my sister and brought the diamond (from Good Old Gold) in for them to set. I also bought the setting and chain from them, and they never batted an eye or anything about setting a stone that wasn't purchased from them. I'd be happy to answer any more questions if you like!