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Question regarding Kays and perception

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tkdee

Rough_Rock
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Jan 25, 2010
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This is my first post on this forum. I''ve been researching engagement rings for the past couple months, and I had all but made up my mind to buy a 1.13C, G, VS1, excellent polish/symmetry cut round diamond from Tiffany''s in their 6 prong setting (for $14,100). I also looked at Cartier, but was surprised that they were coming in significantly more expensive. I realize that I could get this same stone much cheaper online (I looked at James Allen, Brilliant Earth, and Blue Nile for price comparisons), but I just never felt comfortable with spending such a large sum of money on a ring I hadn''t seen in person. Also, while I realize the "blue box" effect is fleeting and no one is going to really know it was a Tiffany''s ring I still attributed ~1-1.5k of value to this when I was pricing out rings.

Well that leads me to yesterday. I went to Kays once in the beginning and wasn''t really too impressed by their offerings. They, however, did have a loose diamond and setting event that I decided to go to (I was very doubtful I''d find anything). Well, at first they tried to sell me on a 1.0C, G, SI1, ideal cut diamond (IGI certified) that was coming out slightly cheaper overall but actually slightly higher per carat than the Tiffany ring. Then they brought out a 1.51C, F, SI1, ideal cut, (AGS certified) diamond that someone else had apparently backed out on that they were going to give me for basically the same price as the Tiffany ring. So, I was left to decide on almost half a carat vs. the specialness of Tiffany''s. I guess what I was most concerned with that with the Kays ring that it will seem like I didn''t put too much thought into it and just went to the mall. I''ve also seen several questionable reviews about Kays which also makes me worry that there might be something I''m not seeing right now. What do you people think about the situation, and would you think that a ring from Kays was automatically not thoughtful? Either way I have 60 days to mull it over where I can return the ring with no questions asked if I don''t like it.

Also, I had it set in a 6 prong Tiffany''s style platinum setting that was in the store due to the loose diamond event.
 
Date: 1/26/2010 8:49:24 AM
Author:tkdee
This is my first post on this forum. I''ve been researching engagement rings for the past couple months, and I had all but made up my mind to buy a 1.13C, G, VS1, excellent polish/symmetry cut round diamond from Tiffany''s in their 6 prong setting (for $14,100). I also looked at Cartier, but was surprised that they were coming in significantly more expensive. I realize that I could get this same stone much cheaper online (I looked at James Allen, Brilliant Earth, and Blue Nile for price comparisons), but I just never felt comfortable with spending such a large sum of money on a ring I hadn''t seen in person. Also, while I realize the ''blue box'' effect is fleeting and no one is going to really know it was a Tiffany''s ring I still attributed ~1-1.5k of value to this when I was pricing out rings.

Well that leads me to yesterday. I went to Kays once in the beginning and wasn''t really too impressed by their offerings. They, however, did have a loose diamond and setting event that I decided to go to (I was very doubtful I''d find anything). Well, at first they tried to sell me on a 1.0C, G, SI1, ideal cut diamond (IGI certified) that was coming out slightly cheaper overall but actually slightly higher per carat than the Tiffany ring. Then they brought out a 1.51C, F, SI1, ideal cut, (AGS certified) diamond that someone else had apparently backed out on that they were going to give me for basically the same price as the Tiffany ring. So, I was left to decide on almost half a carat vs. the specialness of Tiffany''s. I guess what I was most concerned with that with the Kays ring that it will seem like I didn''t put too much thought into it and just went to the mall. I''ve also seen several questionable reviews about Kays which also makes me worry that there might be something I''m not seeing right now. What do you people think about the situation, and would you think that a ring from Kays was automatically not thoughtful? Either way I have 60 days to mull it over where I can return the ring with no questions asked if I don''t like it.

Also, I had it set in a 6 prong Tiffany''s style platinum setting that was in the store due to the loose diamond event.
Hi tkd and welcome!

Whether you choose Tiffany or not depends on the value you place on the status of the name and the price premium you will pay in so far as whether it is worth it to you.

Concerning the AGS diamond from Kay, this should be one of the better cut stones but we could get a better idea if you could post all the info from the report here and the price. It might be possible you could get a similar diamond for less if you worked with one of the trusted online vendors but it does come down to where and how you prefer to shop.
 
My Opinion only:

-I had a hard time considering an online purchase as well.
Consideration: I'm having the ring shipped to an appraiser for me to review (charge is insignificant when you consider the online discount and a potential 5% discount for Pricescoper's)



-Tiffany's vs. non-branded
Consideration: Any man can pick a ring from a catalogue (and there is nothing wrong with that) - I prefer to shop for and piece together something so it's unique to us
(not to mention, the added quality/quantity and value)


-Mall Store vs. Online
Consideration - Online you are provided with documented proof of performance (ask the vendor). Mall store you only get the Lab Cert.
Consideration- Upgrade, buy-back and return policies online. Most stores don't offer them and online vendors don't charge for them... value added if you ask me!

Do a forum search for Kay's to get more information

Be careful that the 60 day return offer is for CASH (get it in writing). A lot of times they only give you a store credit.

Good luck - I have had great success getting all my questions answered here. Don't hesitate to post, everyone is VERY helpful!


Welcome to the site!
 
Like Lorelei said, whether or not you choose Tiffs, depends on the value you and your girlfriend place on the name. If she''s a Tiff''s type of girl, maybe Kay''s isn''t the best place to get the e-ring. If she doesn''t care, and you''re more comfortable seeing the stone before you buy it, then an AGS0 is usually a safe bet regardless of where you get it.

I know you don''t want to shop online but I did a search for an F, SI1 1.50 AGS0 to see what''s available and at what prices.
This is what I found http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-2192311.htm 12,822 with the PS discount (this is a branded Hearts and Arrows diamond, top performer). Here''s another http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-2224315.htm F, 1.55,VS2, $14,020 with the PS discount.
The second one is not an ACA and I don''t even know if they have it in house. I''m just linking it for comparision.
 
Thanks for the quick replies so far. As for a little bit more information. I don''t have the AGS cert yet so I can''t give every detail. The price they gave me for the stone alone was 13,500. The SI1 inclusion is a carbon deposit in the corner of the table. I could see it clearly under 10x, I hadn''t noticed it before I looked under the microscope, but after I knew it was there and squinted I could barely make it out. The "MSRP" for the stone was just under 16k, but that is pretty meaningless if you ask me.

Kays also offered buy back, upgraded, lifetime cleaning, replacement for a chipped/damaged stone, or if it falls out.

I checked the return policy online, it says that it is a return for 60 days and an exchange for 90 days.

My girlfriend is not what I would call a "Tiffany''s" girl. I think that she has kind of mixed emotions about the whole concept. On one hand she isn''t big into jewelry and thinks it''s a waste of money. On the other hand there is a part of her that "wants" something nice (basically her heart vs her head) in general she is fairly pragmatic. For example she doesn''t even really like wearing jewelry but at the same time if it''s something she has for the rest of her life she wants it to be something that she will like. I know that she has looked at rings just one time with one of her friends (to hypothetically think about what they would want) and it was on the Tiffany''s website, but I think that was more just an easy place to start looking at than anything else.
 
Like I said I think my biggest concern is that a chain mall store ring won''t seem thoughtful.
 
I just wanted to give you a nod of encouragement toward buying online because there are some wonderfully reputable vendors out there. My husband and I purchased my diamond online, without seeing it in person and we were thrilled when it arrived. I think it''s great that you sought out PriceScope because you''re doing the right thing by delving into the research prior to the purchase.
 
tkdee- I don''t think that in the real world, most people would think it less thoughtful to buy a ring from Kay''s. Millions of rings are sold through chains, it''s normal
1.gif
PS is a different world, we''re very anal about getting the perfect diamond
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re: Kay''s buy back, most of the vendors here also have a lifetime buyback and trade in policy. Cleaning is done for free at any jewelry store, it only takes a few minutes. Better yet, investin a steam cleaner or ultrasonic and do it yourself. As far as
replacement for a chipped/damaged stone, the worst thing you can do is buy their insurance policy. It won''t cover damage caused by YOU and that''s how the majority of chips and stones that fall out happen, ny the wearer. The chances of them honoring it is pretty much zilch.

What most people do is buy seperate insurance or have a valuable article policy added on to their renters or homeowners insurance. It covers alot more than Kay''s and it''s pretty cheap.
 
Thanks for the reply iceexplorer.

"-Tiffany''s vs. non-branded
Consideration: Any man can pick a ring from a catalogue (and there is nothing wrong with that) - I prefer to shop for and piece together something so it''s unique to us
(not to mention, the added quality/quantity and value)"

I actually didn''t pick this ring from the Kay''s catalog, and the perception that I did kind of goes with my initial fear about buying from here. I had gone in during their loose diamond event and picked out a loose stone and paired it with a bare setting that they also only had because of the event.

"-Mall Store vs. Online
Consideration - Online you are provided with documented proof of performance (ask the vendor). Mall store you only get the Lab Cert.
Consideration- Upgrade, buy-back and return policies online. Most stores don''t offer them and online vendors don''t charge for them... value added if you ask me!"


Both Kay''s and Tiffany''s offer similar things. My one gripe with the Kay''s warranty policy is that you have to have the ring inspected every 6 months or you void your warranty. Is this common to other places? FWIW I''m planning on having the ring separately insured regardless.

Thanks again for all the feedback.
 
What would make walking into Tiffany's and buying a ring more thoughtful than walking into Kay's and buying a ring? The higher price tag?

If you are concerned with being thoughtful, then I would take my time and learn about diamonds. Then select a diamond from a respected PS vendor who provides images, IS, ASET, and even video to buy the stone from. As you said your GF is pragmatic and partly sees jewelry as a waste of money, I think she would really appreciate the work you went to to get a beautiful diamond that was also reasonably priced.

ETA - A LOT of women would have a problem with a visible inclusion in their engagement ring so I would really consider that before buying this stone. It becomes more noticeable when you wear it everyday and also outside of the store lighting.
 
I would return the stone with the visible inclusion, especially given your budget. I would think after she notices it, it could be the sort of thing that your eye trains to zoom in on.

Why not get a Tiffany ring and drop down to an H in color and to their lowest clarity --- not sure what Tiffany''s is? That should still look white. Personally I wouldn''t go with an I in color. They can order you another ring from their inventory. Then you can run the numbers they provide here (I think?) I don''t know I have a 1.10 ct. Tiffany ring and I love it. We got mine second hand, but that was my choice. Its a simple classic setting and sure you can buy something similar elsewhere but there was no way my husband was buying an engagement ring sight unseen. *Besides honestly we got a fantastic deal* I''ve never been to Kay''s so I can''t comment, but I will note that I had a ring with an every 6 mo. inspection policy from another company and it was the biggest pain ever --- let''s just say I let it lapse.
 
My sis-in-law had hers lapse too!
She said it''s harder than it sounds to get that thing in every 6 months.
 
Yeah I had paid for the $389 warranty on the ring itself which would basically cover repairs and refinishing that would normally cost $79 to do on the platinum band. I didn''t realize that also lapsed if you didn''t have your ring inspected every 6 months. I have 30 days to remove that coverage so I''m thinking about getting my money back on that at the very least when I go in to pick it up today.

I may have over stressed the visibility of the inclusion. I could only see it when I was trying to see it, knowing where it was, after having just looked at it through the microscope. If I were to rotate the diamond around a couple times so I lost the orientation of the stone I don''t think I''d be able to see it. I would probably call it BARELY eye visible.
 
Hi,

For sure return the stone with a visable inclusion! I love Tiffany & Co for many of their pieces, but their prices are too high! For your budget, you can find the perfect stone from one of many vendors *or* if you are hoping to buy locally, look around and find another AGS stone. Just don''t end up having a sales person tell you that one of the certifications by MDX or other weird labs are as reliable as AGS!

Best of luck!
 
Maybe propose with the Kay''s ring, but make sure to do it within the return period, and let her know if there''s anything she doesn''t like about it it can go back.
 
You are spending so much money, I just don''t get why you''d want a visible inclusion to go up .4 ct in size? I have really stared at my ring alot so I think I would have discovered any visible inclusions at this point - - - I have even gone over my ring with a 10x loup, but then I''m a little nuts. Maybe you just want to be done with the purchase, but I would strongly recommend returning it. It just doesn''t seem worth the money to me.
 
Kay just called me about some questions I had yesterday with the AGS report, since they didn''t have the cut details at the time and AGS was already closed.

The cut, polish, and symmetry are all AGS0
Table: 56%
Depth: 61%
 
I would find another stone through a PS vendor.......I had ordered in a diamond (NON PS vendor) that the seller said was "100% eyeclean." It had a carbon spot.......I got it and it WAS very visible. If someone sees a carbon spot that is visible to the naked eye, that is what they will think about EVERY time they look at the ring. Plus, when she shows it to her friends, she will be thinking in the back of her mind the entire time with panic, "Gosh I hope they don't see the spot."

Needless to say, I sent that stone back and bought an AMAZING diamond at a killer price from a PS vendor.

Personally, you could not pay ME to go to Kay's for a diamond. "MSRP" means nothing.......they can tell you whatever they want about the price. Seriously, find a better stone with more bang for your buck from PS.
 
Ok, so I took my ring to a broker (that I was referred to through the Boston Diamond Exchange) who basically said he could beat the Kay''s ring just based on price. He''s one of those guys who likes to deal based on rapp prices (which I realize has pros and cons). The prices he gave me seemed only slightly higher than the online prices. The first stone I saw was an AGS000 stone with F color and VS2 inclusions it was 1.228C and I think he offered around 9k for the price. The second was GIA Very good excellent/excellent, G color, and VS2 1.50C (it was more of a 60/60 type diamond) which he offered for around 11k. The most striking thing I saw was when he let me look at my stone next to his my inclusions were much worse, color was about right, but my cut didn''t look as good as I had thought it was. Based on that, even if I don''t buy from him, I returned the Kay''s ring. The 1.228C ring came out pretty good on the HCA calculator, the 1.50 one came out just good.

I think the 1.228C ring he had seemed like a good value, and it looked great.

I''m also starting to warm up a bit to the idea of online shopping. I found one on James Allen that is 1.32C/000/G/VS1 for 9600 that had good marks on the HCA, and another one on whiteflash that was 1.248C/whiteflashACA/G/VS1 that also came out good on the HCA for just under 10k.
 
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