Question re I1 diamond

[togal]

Hi, I''m a "newbie".....

I am looking to upgrade my diamond and have come across a lovely I1 stone from a jeweller in my area who was recommended by someone on this site (Canada). The diamond is rated by GemScan (who, according to virtually every jeweller I''ve spoken, to is quite stringent) as an .80 ct, D colour, I1, Very Good cut - Class 1 (equivalent to an "Excellent Cut", I think, if GIA rated), total depth 59.90% (don''t have the rest of the stats at hand). I''m trading up my .63 ct J color, VS2, Very Good cut - Class 1.

I never thought I''d even consider an I1 stone, or even an SI stone for that matter, but this stone sparkles like crazy. The inclusions are not visible to the naked eye -- and I have very good eyesight. When I put it against my current stone, it has quite a bit more fire, and an overall more dazzling look -- I''m sure due to the "D" colour. The jeweller and I compared the I1 stone with several others, including some VS stones, as well as a few SI stones of varying colour, cut, size, etc. For the price the I1 stone seemed to be really, really nice.

So here''s my question.....is it silly to trade a VS2 for an SI stone, size and color aside? The other question is....the jeweller is charging me $2,500.00 CAD, including tax, which factors in my trade-in. This is approx. $2,175.00 US. Does that sound reasonable. I just want to make sure that I''m not doing something completely foolish. My instincts tell me it''s a fair trade. My instincts also tell me that if I can''t see the inclusion with my naked eyes, than it really doesn''t matter, as long as there''s lots of fire and dazzle with the diamond and I feel more comfortable with the larger size. This jeweller also has a good trade-up policy, which I may utilize again in the future. Your opinions are welcomed and appreciated.

 

[pinkflamingo]

i am no expert but that is A LOT of money for an I1 stone plus your trade-in. I think for the same amount you could keep your current stone and buy another stone the same size with a better cut. i''d look around a little more and be careful.

 

[belle]

the ''more fire and more sparkle'' you are seeing is due to the cut of the diamond, not the color. i guarantee you there are many a lower color (i/j/k...) diamonds out there that will out sparkle and out fire the poorly cut d/e/f''s. upgrading to a well cut stone is always a good move, no matter what the color/clarity.

you can do price comparisons using this diamonds specs above using the ''pricescope your diamond'' search tool above.

 

[jldunn]

As a point of reference:

Here is a GIA certified 0.81 ct D SI2 for $3,100US that has a cut that would be considered ideal by AGS.

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=28386964&flag=ps

Here is a GIA certified 0.63 ct J VS2 for $1,269.99US that also has a cut that would be considered ideal by AGS.

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=28909882&flag=ps

This leads me to believe you''re getting at least a decent deal for the upgrade. A lot of SI stones have inclusions visible to the naked eye so if the I1 stone you''re looking at doesn''t have any visible to the naked eye it might really be a better stone than an SI2.

I don''t know anything about GemScan, but I''m usually scared of anything other than GIA or AGS. Being able to see the diamonds next to each other in person is a great luxury though. I''d have the jeweler point out where the flaws are responsible for giving it the I1 clarity grade. Sometimes a stone looks perfect until someone points out how it''s not, and then you can''t not see it. If it looks good to you I''d go with your gut.

 

[pinkflamingo]

I found a .81 E I1 for $1343 with 59% depth.

I think I1 stones are heavily discounted.
e I1

I found a .61 J Vs2 for $1043 for $1074 with 62% depth

J vs2

obviously the numbers are not exactly what you have, but should give you an idea. I know this because I briefly considered a D I1.. The .91 J VS1 was more expensive than the 1.00 D I1. (they were both ideal cuts from the same seller)

 

[valeria101]

Date: 2/22/2006 7:13:01 PM
Author: pinkflamingo
I found a .81 E I1 for $1343 with 59% depth.

I think I1 stones are heavily discounted.
e I1


This one comes with a note : "with EGL Israel certificate"... that has something to do with the 'bargain basement' quote too.

Depth only is snot going to be enough by far to locate a comparably well cut stone or compare what you were offered with others in terms of cut. And since that is what you found attractive about this stone...

I am not very familiar with Gem Scan's cut grading, and if it is 'equivalent with Gia Ex.' that is not such great news I am afraid... Many other labs have some cut grade or at least give proportions on the lab reports. But the grades are rather wide, so to speak. Which doesn't mean that some good doesn't get mixed with the not-so-hot under the same cut grade. You may have just found a good one, only I can't tell from the info given.

Anyway. I am not surprised that you found an I1 graded diamond looking clean (or at least that much cleaner than you thought by the grade's reputation). If it still looks clean and attractive in lower light - definitely away from the jeweler's counter... good for you. It may be that inclusions get annoyingly visible when the light is not very intense. Even the best cut diamonds don't have a small light source inside (yet?

) ... they can only be as bright as the light shining on them.

I would expect the stone to pass such test, but ... I can only know about it as much as you write.

Just an idea

 

[pinkflamingo]

here is one from GIA for $1892. I agree that depth isn't much to go by, but that is all the OP provided. Neither stone was an ideal cut.

e I1

my point is that she can find a similar stone for the same amount that she is paying without having to "trade in". I don't think it sounds like a good deal at all.

I think doing some research on ideal cut stones here will help you.

Edited to add: Look at the price jumps between Si2 and I1 on these price sheets. price sheets

 

[hlmr]

Hi Togal:

GemScan is widely used across Canada and from what I understand is fairly accurate with their grading.

I don''t think that is an unfair price but are you trading up to get a larger stone? If so, I would keep looking for a bit lower colour and get an ideal cut stone that is larger. If you dropped in colour you could really go up in size quite a bit more.

Heather

 

[togal]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply in such detail.

I think your responses have helped to alleviate, somewhat, my fear of I1 stones. I believe it was the high color/cut combo that made this particular I1 diamond look so good against my equally well-cut, J, albeit smaller stone. I did look at in varying light, incuding daylight, out of the glare of the hologen lights. I looked at it in a small mirror, a full length mirror, upside down, right side-up, on white paper, in a setting, etc., etc. We also compared it to some SI1 & SI2 stones....the I1 really did look better, as some of the S1s had feathers, that made the stones cloudy

I''m certainly not buying a diamond for investment purposes, just something that sparkes, to enjoy, and hopefully, up-grade (or maybe not) in a few years. The jeweller stated, and I agreed, that unless casuall observer has a loop, then the inclusions aren''t visible. I really just wanted assurance that I wasn''t making a completely stupid purchase, if I do decide to go ahead with it. Although, the point about looking at it with NO light shining on it, is a good one.

I think I am going to go back to the jeweller, look at the stone again, and try to negotiate a better price, and try to keep my original stone to put in a pendent or something. I know that I can''t buy my original stone for what the jeweller is offering as a trade, so I think I should really try to keep it. My budget was $2,500 CAD for the whole thing. She did say that without the trade, the stone would be $3,200 CAD, which I thought seemed high....or maybe not (?). I''m thinking more like $2,700 with a trade...??

 

[pinkflamingo]

did you tell the jeweler your budget when you went to the store?

 

[togal]

Well, originally, I told the jeweller that I had a budget, but didn''t say what it was (I wanted to see what she''d come up with)....she knew I wanted to upgrade to a larger size stone, so she showed me a .93, F colour, Good Cut, I1 - $3,200 with the trade-in -- it was also eye clean as far as I could tell -- a very clear stone. She also showed me a .91 E Colour, Very Good Cut, I1 - also $3,200 with trade-in. I told her that it was out of my budget, and then she showed me a the .80 that I like, as well as a .86, which was also an I1, but it wasn''t as nice as the .80, and she agreed.

 

[jldunn]

The sad thing is when you tell a jeweler it''s too expensive and they just show you a cheaper rock. What you''d prefer is them to offer you the same rock for a lower price.

I''d ask the jeweler to see this month''s copy of the rapaport price list (rap sheet). At least talk them down to the rap sheet price, (they buy at a discount from this price, even if they tell you "it''s wholesale, and no one gets it cheaper than wholesale"). There are a lot of other threads here that talk about rap sheet prices.

Sounds like you have a diamond you like, might as well try to talk them down some though... bargaining can be fun.