Question from colored stone newbie

[bookworm21]

Hello all, I''ve recently started getting really interested in colored stones after practically drooling over the pieces I''ve seen on this forum. I saw a peach-colored sapphire from cherrypicked.com. It was somewhere around .50 carat for $345. Is that a reasonable price? And how nice (only descriptive word I can think of) can I expect the color to be? Is it stupid to make my first foray into colored stones with that?

Thanks everyone.

 

[movie zombie]

personal opinion: that works out to about $700/carat which puts it up there but not up there, i don't think, for an upper end quality stone.

there are some great books out there on what to look for and what constitutes the 'best' for any given stone. unfortunately, most of us can't afford those prices for those stones. but fortunately there is something for every budget!

what's important is that it 'speaks' to you and that YOU like it. it really doesn't matter if anyone else likes it or not: i'm not the one buying it or going to wear it. i also find that i don't always like what is considered the 'best'. for instance, i don't mind some green in blue sapphires. but i can't abide gray in aquamarine....

cherrypicked has been the vendor of choice for many here at pricescope. however, its very hard to tell much about a stone until you see it in person: does it window, how bad are any inclusions to my own eye, and color just doesn't come across as accurate on computer monitors.

as long as the vendor has a good return policy [and i avoid restocking fees], then its worth taking a look at that stone!

tip: sapphires are often heat or otherwise treated and there has been much discussion here at pricescope regarding the merits [or lack thereof] of such treatments.

welcome to the world of pricescope color! if you get this peach sapphire, i hope you'll post pictures....SOON....!

movie zombie

 

[bookworm21]

Thanks movie zombie! I may call to get more info on that stone, but believe me, I know the first rule of PS: PICTURES! (If I do buy, that is.)

 

[just_looking!]

Another option for sapphires with a range of prices is The Natural Sapphire Company.

I''ve had a look on there recently and some of the smaller stones are nice. Be careful though, it''s very tempting to look at the others and then your wallet will be in real peril!!

 

[colorchange]

Since you are quite a newbie, I will mention that using a poer carat price is the norm but that a 2Ct peach sapphire will be worth far more per carat than a 0.5Ct of same color and clarity.
Also, the shape will have an impact : if a gem is overly deep for instance it will affect the value seriously...

I personnaly feel the color is rather champagne than peach based on photo (if it's the brillant cut 0.59Ct) , if it's the true color, the price is a bit stiff...

Youo may start with just anything you like when beginning with colored stones, just take much time to choose.

 

[PrecisionGem]

Some good advise above.
I had a look at the stone, from the picture, the color doesn''t look too peachy to me, and you can see the polishing scrathes on some of the facets. Native cut stones, are cut much differently than are stones cut in the USA or in Germany. Facets are actually cut and "polished" in one operation. The cutters work in an assembly line process. One guy dops the stone, one guy shapes it, then passes it on to another cutter who grinds the stone on a finer lap. THe stone is then passes to the polisher, who using by US standards a coarse polish, both cuts in the facet and polishes in one step. All this work is basically done by hand on jam peg machines. In precision cut gems, the work is done by one cutter on a faceting machine that allows the cutter to come back to the facet over and over again. Sapphires are cut in with a 600 grit wheel, the prepolished with 8000 grit diamond, then finish polished with 50,000 grit. The 8000 will cut and polish, and to overseas standards be good enough for the final polish.
Also, a 1/2 ct stone will be priced much lower per ct than a 1 ct. and 2 ct etc. 2 weeks ago at the Tuscon shows, I saw native cut small sapphires (1/2 and under) selling all over for $50 per ct and less. If the color of this stone looks like the picture, I would think that $30 / ct would be a typical wholesale price, especially giving the native cutting. Better cutting would bring a higher price, but certainly nothing close to $700/ct.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 2/16/2006 2:14:45 AM
Author:Cinderella


I saw a peach-colored sapphire from cherrypicked.com. It was somewhere around .50 carat for $345. Is that a reasonable price?

Hm.... compared to the 30k/ct ruby next to it? Sure

And how nice (only descriptive word I can think of) can I expect the color to be?

Light colores look great in either large or very bright stones... otherwise they are washed out. Sapphire and garnet and topaz are about as bright as you can get aside diamonds. But of these, topaz is the easiest to find (and lest expensive) in large stones. And garnet does ''peach'' quite nicely. Large sapphires with a pinkish orange color are nice too, only large sapphires would be exponentially more expensive than either of the other two. A small one would look peach on a white sheet of paper. On more normal background, I wouldn''t hold my hopes too high for the color.
Oh, and speaking of peach stones - kinzite, beryl and tourmaline may also be candidates, only neither has light orange-pink as a common color. Beryl does it nicely and the peach stones are not highly prized - many would mix them with pink morganite as a ''poor'' cousin. Too bad, that.


Is it stupid to make my first foray into colored stones with that?

With a peach sapphire? No. With that one... well, $300 is not exactly a fortune, although anyone can have a different opinion on how to spend them

Speaking of peachy stuff

Garnet, a better priced sapphire and topaz sound like a better way to start a gem folly.

[PS: I could not decide which of the first three Malayas on that page to post, although the lighter sounds more tempting, despite the seller''s word of caution on the ''brinish'' color modifier. I think I know what thy mean, and these guys are more conservative than I am.]

Anyway, I have not see as much or as nice Malaya garnet in the wind for a while. There is even some trace of it in the photo gallery here... perhaps the guys who listed that, have more to choose from.

Of those, perhaps the topaz could be the esiest to hide in a slice of vegetal peach - if the color is not quite right in the picture, I would still expect the nicest shades in the range from light-colored precious topaz.


Hm..... Then tourmaline makes stupendound surprises - in the form of light (& cheap) pink that errs into orange in incandescent light. I don''t see anything online of that species. I''d call them ''peach'' also I''d never heard anyone calling those stones by that name. In fact, this is not a common color descriptor for colored stones - meaning, it is up to you what fits the bill and what not. Nad that usually is good news for the price department

Btw. tourmaline... don''t know what color is THIS, but the thing leaps from the screen. Who put those inclusions in there anyway!

Sorry for the ramble. It is a fun subject

 

[bookworm21]

Thanks for all the advice everyone! I think I''ll pass on this stone for now. I really appreciate the links that a few of you provided. Let me look around a bit more, and then I''ll buy very soon.

I''ll be back for more advice and opinions.

 

[valeria101]

Glad to share the bug

Btw. I wonder what would THIS become recut? Anyway, I''d be looking for a deep-cut stone with such a color, and this one is definitely not deep cut.


Anyway, while posting away before, I was trying desperately to remember one seller with a stash of nicely cut peach garnet. Here it is

If the magic bend of the site doesn''t do away with your good humor, the peach garnets (and a few other unusual things - like that large clean Kyanite) seem to be attractive bargains. I doubt those garnets are 300% Hessonite - most likely some of the obscure mixes of garnet most folk would call ''Malaya''. Michael E has a recent post about the mix up of garnet classification. The chemistry detail matters little price-wise.

My 2c

I only know one thing about the last shop - the return policy holds and they tend to be good at describing merchandise upon request. I never bought from them - an Indian colleague did and ended up changing the first purchase (a coral cab) for better from the same seller.

 

[colorchange]

Talking about price, I can give you a price quote : I have a 2.5 Ct cushion cut (in the USA) similarly colored (except more peach indeed, similar to a lower end padparadsha under torch light) very gently heated and to me $700 / Ct would be an excellent price !

In such color, topaz are extremely cheap and quite nice, while garnet are not very nice (my 2c opinion indeed I don''t like garnet except mandarin).
Topaz are more transparent and color is less perceived but such color in native cut topaz will just claim a few $/Ct.

Regards

 

[PrecisionGem]

Date: 2/17/2006 4:23:28 AM
Author: colorchange
Talking about price, I can give you a price quote : I have a 2.5 Ct cushion cut (in the USA) similarly colored (except more peach indeed, similar to a lower end padparadsha under torch light) very gently heated and to me $700 / Ct would be an excellent price !

In such color, topaz are extremely cheap and quite nice, while garnet are not very nice (my 2c opinion indeed I don''t like garnet except mandarin).
Topaz are more transparent and color is less perceived but such color in native cut topaz will just claim a few $/Ct.

Regards

That''s the point exactly! You can not compare a 2.5 ct USA cut stone, with a .59 ct native cut stone and think the price per ct. should be the same, especially if the larger stone has better color.
My point was that I felt the the .59 ct stone was pretty darn expensive for what it was. Like I said, in Tucson I saw similar type goods all over for $30/ct or so. I bought some 4 mm round blue sapphire, not bad color, certainly not top of line, but decent stones, for $2 each. I picked these up for someone who wanted them for a project she is working on. These stone are maybe .18 ct each or so. Saw some very nice 5 mm princess cut blue sapphire for $200 per ct.

 

[colorchange]

Indeed such color is quite more expensive than blue, it''s rather a rare color and currently well in demand.

Native cut is not a problem to me, indeed they are sometimes very nice, even if not perfect, as long as flaws are not visible to the naked eyes. But sometimes they are just awful like most Burmese spinel. I don''t feel that the cut on this stone is affecting value very negatively.

I will post a photo of mine on Monday for comparison.




About a first choice in colored stones... why not choose a more colored one, this one is quite grey, isn''t it ?
A very orange or orangy-yellow (i.e. peach) one for instance (take care with Be-Heated).
In your budget you can get something nice around 1 Ct, I feel (with no self promotion intended $350 is the price I sell 1 to 2.5 Ct orange depending on tone) , and the difference between a 0.5 Ct and a 1 Ct is huge !

Regards

 

[Richard M.]

Date: 2/17/2006 12:19:59 AM
Author: valeria101
I doubt those garnets are 300% Hessonite - most likely some of the obscure mixes of garnet most folk would call ''Malaya''. Michael E has a recent post about the mix up of garnet classification. The chemistry detail matters little price-wise.

I''d love to read Michael E.''s garnet post but can''t find it. Can you point me to it?

Also, some folks might call them ''Malaya'' but Malaia is a pyrope-spessartite mix. Hessonite is grossular. They are entirely different species of garnet with different gemological properties and their chemistry makes a huge difference in color and value. Peach Hessonite is much more prone to inclusions and is valued much lower than Malaia.

Regards,

Richard M.

 

[Richard M.]

Date: 2/17/2006 4:23:28 AM
Author: colorchange

In such color, topaz are extremely cheap and quite nice, while garnet are not very nice (my 2c opinion indeed I don''t like garnet except mandarin).

Your comment about garnet interests me. Care to expand on it? We all have personal preferences and I respect them.

Unlike topaz and especially sapphire, garnet is not treated, heated, coated and synthesized. It doesn''t have a touchy cleavage like topaz. It occurs in a wide range of hues and tones and many varieties have higher R.I. than other comparable colored gems. It''s isometric so there are no dichroic colors -- what you see is what you get from all angles.

Many lovely garnet colors are much rarer than the lab-manipulated Frankenstone being sold as "sapphire" out of Bangkok. The hardness of garnets is comparable to Tanzanite, pearls, opals and many other popular gems. It''s also much more affordable than many other colored stones, putting it easily within reach of women who like to use colored stones for accessorizing. What''s not to like?

My two cents.

Regards,

Richard M.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 2/17/2006 2:26:42 PM
Author: Richard M.


I''d love to read Michael E.''s garnet post but can''t find it. Can you point me to it?

Oups... must have been wishful thinking

Also, some folks might call them ''Malaya'' but Malaia is a pyrope-spessartite mix. Hessonite is grossular.

What made me think that the seller got their garnet Id wrong is that the light color stones are very clear. I think that the traditional type of orange garnet used for the talisman jewels are Hessonite... so the name tends to catch.

 

[Richard M.]

Date: 2/17/2006 2:52:37 PM
Author: valeria101

What made me think that the seller got their garnet Id wrong is that the light color stones are very clear. I think that the traditional type of orange garnet used for the talisman jewels are Hessonite... so the name tends to catch.

I''m not quite sure what you''re saying, particularly in regard to Malaia. Peach hessonite is a long-established name in the trade and most is somewhat included, especially in larger stones. Certainly stones of good clarity exist though I notice the seller''s larger offerings aren''t as clean as those in the under 3 carat range. Clarity grading also differs, lol. I received some "IF" to "VVS1" stones from overseas yesterday I''d grade as SI1 at best.

Brownish to orangy hessonite/''cinnamon stone'' is famous for its ''treacle'' or ''Scotch in water'' internal appearance. It differs greatly from higher-clarity orange garnets like Malaia and Spessartite. Its R.I. is also much lower. Some hessonites are very pretty but of relatively low value except some of the fine Indian gems.

Regards,

Richard M.

 

[bookworm21]

Okay, what do you guys think of this:
http://www.multicolour.com/detail/index.html?-12942879

I''m starting with the more affordable ones, and this one looks really pretty in the picture.

By the way, thanks for all the links Ana!

 

[bookworm21]

Or this one? I''m planning to eventually make a colored stone pendant.
http://www.multicolour.com/detail/index.html?1962814985

 

[colorchange]

Hi,

These gems look good and will surely look very nice in pendant.
I would be completely unable to give price quote as I''m almost only in corundums.
I have seen some similar garnets in Ceylon, looking very nice indeed.

Just take time to choose, you''ll make the good choice !

Regards

 

[MINE!!]

I just wanted to pipe in and say something that was absolutely useless to this thread, but in reponse of agreeance to Michael M. I love garnets too!

 

[Richard M.]

Cinderella,

Those stones have lovely color and either one should make a wonderful pendant. Both appear to be very well cut. My personal preference is the pear shape, mainly because of its larger size. I think it might show better in a pendant, especially if you do a halo or some other treatment with well-cut small diamonds.

Richard M.

 

[bookworm21]

Okay, the pear it is! Thanks all! And after that, the search for a pendant setting!