Question for professional jewelers

[Virgo13]

Long story short... sort of....
We purchased a ring last month from a reputable out of town dealer. I have all confidence in this jeweler and also felt very comfortable with his return policy so we went for it and purchased a ring. It was perfect and just what we were looking for. As a matter of due diligence, I took it to a local appraisal firm. The appraisal came back with a grade of S/I 1 and ring we decided to keep the ring.
The appariser then sent the ring to a recommended jeweler in the area to be sized per my instructions. I recieved a call saying the prongs were loose and would need to be tightenend.
A few days after I picked the ring up I noticed a chip or nick in the girdle. I could actually run my finger nail over it and feel the nick. I then took it to yet another jeweler who said it may in fact be a natural inclusion that had been hidden under a prong but there was no real way to tell. I took it back to the original appraiser and she downgraded the stone to a S/I 2. I''m not sure I would have purchased the ring had I known this...
I took the ring back and have the stone shifted to cover the inclusion.
I am still bothered by this whole mess and have some lingering questions.
Is it possible that two different appraisers could have missed this inclusion even if it was hidden under a prong??
Shouldn''t the jeweler who tightend the prongs have noticed the inclusion when the stone was unmounted and should he have let me know of the inclusion??
What are chances the jeweler chipped the stone while tightening the prongs??
Thanks for any help and sorry for the long post.

 

[denverappraiser]

I’m not fully understanding your appraiser (appraiser #1). Did she revise her opinion downward because she thought she made an error the first time or because she thought there was damage between the two inspections? Were both reports in writing? What about the report from appraiser #2?

Get resolved the question of whether it’s a natural or a chip. The difference is important, especially if the conclusion is that it’s a chip and that it was not present for the first inspection.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Virgo13]

Thanks for the quick reply.
It was appriased before the prongs were tightend but I took it back to the same appraiser to look at it again after I noticed the problem (after the prongs were tightenend). She just said she could not determine if the inclusion had been there the whole time--she said it may have been hidden by the prong. Is this possible? She didn''t give me a second written appraisal--just the verbal info.
How can I determine if it is a natural inclusion or other??
The jeweler I bought it from also had it appraised and never caught the inclusion ( I never saw this appraisal but felt comfortable with his word)--
Could the jeweler have chipped the stone when he tightened the prongs??
Thanks so much for your help as I am really sick about this.

 

[denverappraiser]

Did you insure it?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Virgo13]

No, I haven''t had it insured yet.....

 

[Regular Guy]

It's not my explicit intention to use Virgo's question...except that that's what I would do...adding a prong to this query. (Hey, I'm a Virgo, too!). Obviously, I have no idea what actually happened in Virgo's case.

But...I've always been sort of curious about how careful a run of the mill Pricescope shopper should be.

For example, frequently, we do suggest that, at least with Pricescope vendors...the shopper might well have the diamond set, and only then (some say IF then), have it appraised.

But...what if it is chipped while set? I suppose the operational question is...as Virgo has...how likely is this?

If the intention, generally (unlike Virgo), is to be appropriately diligent...if we do not recommend that shoppers do as he actually did...and if the diamond is chipped in setting...the appraiser would only, in the best of circumstances, note the discrepancy after the stone is set, and at the point when it may be only a question call as to which was really correct...the grading report, or the appraiser's downgrading.

Further...although Neil asks here, if the diamond had been insured....even if the Pricescope shopper is being careful...isn't it typical that the jeweler remains the owner throughout the process, until set and released...such that the shopper would only have, even if being careful, the appraiser do a pre-purchase eval, and therefore not even really empowered to insure the diamond until the jeweler later sets it. In this latter case, if the jeweler does make a boo-boo with the diamond later, I would presume they would not be highly motivated to reveal this, whether they were aware of the problem or not.

So, for anyone concerned about methodological issues in the buying process...I raise this, motivated by what seems to be the real life question bringing the query forward.

(edited to add)...in previous posts...I think it's been noted that by having the diamond owner also do the setting, the buyer is less contentiously protected, because they are always the owner. But...to what extent does this solution depend on the jeweler's really ideal behavior. Is the jeweler somehow protected themselves, should an unintended error occur? Although having a third party do the setting raises the question of needing for the monitoring of potentially contentious parties...at least there is some monitoring going on...

 

[denverappraiser]

Yes, it’s possible that it’s a natural that was hidden by a prong.
Yes, it’s possible that it is a chip that was hidden by a prong.
Yes, it’s possible that the jeweler chipped it.

For the most part, chips are fairly easy to tell apart from naturals but it does take a bit of practice and a good microscope. WHEN the chip occurred, if indeed it’s a chip, is an entirely different question.

To answer some of Ira’s IF’s.
I think it’s sensible for new purchase customers to have an independent inspection done immediately on new items of significant value. I’ll leave it to the shopper to decide what ‘significant’ value means to them. These problems are far more easily addressed if they are discovered immediately instead of waiting months or sometimes years.

If the selling jeweler sets it before delivering, THEY are taking liability for the setting. If it’s damaged simply don’t buy it. That’s one of the big reasons to have THEM do the setting. If a 3rd party jeweler sets it, you have usually voided your return privilege at the seller and the setter may or may not agree to be liable. Even if the setter takes responsibility, it can be a sticky mess.

If you insure it immediately, either using paperwork provided by the seller or using an appraisal done before the setting or resetting, the insurer would be on the hook. They may choose to subrogate against the jeweler but you would be out of that loop. An insurer, for obvious reasons, won’t cover damage done prior to the beginning of the policy but if Virgo had bound a policy immediately upon receipt of the first appraisal listing a grade, a price and no chip, this would have almost certainly been a covered loss.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[WinkHPD]

Did this ring not come with a diamond grading report by a reputable laboratory? If not, why not? Is it a big stone, a little stone? Many times smaller stones are not accompanied with a report as it is not cost effective, but in todays age it is rare for a larger diamond to be sold without at least discussing a grading report.

If your diamond had report you would already know if it was a new or existing situation, but now there is likely no way to go back and determine what was there when you bought it and whether or not there is new damage to the stone.

I am sorry to hear about your situation, and I recommend you send it to a competent appraiser for a high powered microscopic examination which may be able to determine if there was an indentation at the time of polishing. Often if a cleavage broke the surface of the diamond, there will be some tell tale indications at about 120 power examination, usually seen in reflected light. Perhaps someone here knows how to find the pictures that were posted of this some time ago.

Wink

 

[denverappraiser]

Wink,

The examination you describe would be a decisive answer to whether it was chipped (assuming it’s a chip) prior to polishing but the key question here seems to be whether it was chipped before or after appraiser #1 inspected it the first time. If it’s not a chip at all, that obviously answers the question, and if it predates the polishing step this too would answer the question but otherwise the only evidence available is the notes, report and statement from appraiser #1 and possibly those from the original seller.

Virgo,
I didn’t notice the timeline but if you bought it using a credit card, many will offer a limited sort of warranty against breakage on new purchases that extends beyond the original manufactures warranty (if any). If you’re less than a few months from the original purchase and you paid with a CC, it might be worth your trouble to contact them.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 12/30/2008 9:21:26 AM
Author: denverappraiser
Wink,


The examination you describe would be a decisive answer to whether it was chipped (assuming it’s a chip) prior to polishing but the key question here seems to be whether it was chipped before or after appraiser #1 inspected it the first time. If it’s not a chip at all, that obviously answers the question, and if it predates the polishing step this too would answer the question but otherwise the only evidence available is the notes, report and statement from appraiser #1 and possibly those from the original seller.

Right, which is why I suggested sending it to a competent appraiser, such as yourself, to see if this situation can be salvaged. Shame the diamond does not seem to have come with a reputable (or any) report.

Wink