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Question for Maisie or any other Brits who''ve upgraded via the US

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jenniann

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 16, 2008
Messages
149
Hi!

I''m not sure if this is the correct place to post this (so let me know if it needs to move) but I''ve a question for anyone in the UK who has upgraded their diamond with a US company - Maisie, I know you''ve done this a few times which is why I targeted you


Anyway, I''ve only just received my new 0.80ct ACA but as fantastic as it is, I know full well that I''ll be after a 1.0ct at some point in the next 18 months or so, possibly sooner if prices continue to drop (my poor H2B is cursing the day he let me choose my own ring
). My question is this - when you had the new stone shipped back to the UK, did you have to pay VAT on the full list price of the stone or just on the difference between the old and new stones?

Reading the HMRC guidance the implication is that I might have to pay VAT on the full price before any deductions for the stone I''m trading in. To me this seems really unfair but since when did that stop them
!

If anyone has experience with this I''d be really grateful for your input.

Thank you!
 

Maisie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2006
Messages
12,578
Hi

I have only ever had to pay duties on the price I paid for each transaction. If I have traded in my diamond I have only paid duties on the final price after trade in.

So if my old diamond was worth $1000 and the new one was worth $1500 I only paid duties on $500. Does that make sense?

If the paperwork shows the full value of the diamond then customs would ask for that full value. If the paperwork reflects the price you paid to upgrade you will get assessed on that plus the shipping cost.

I think it becomes an issue when the vendor needs to insure the shipment. If they say its worth $1500 then thats what you will be assessed on for customs.

Its complicated. I hope I explained it properly!
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 3/29/2009 4:04:29 PM
Author: Maisie
Hi

I have only ever had to pay duties on the price I paid for each transaction. If I have traded in my diamond I have only paid duties on the final price after trade in.

So if my old diamond was worth $1000 and the new one was worth $1500 I only paid duties on $500. Does that make sense?

If the paperwork shows the full value of the diamond then customs would ask for that full value. If the paperwork reflects the price you paid to upgrade you will get assessed on that plus the shipping cost.

I think it becomes an issue when the vendor needs to insure the shipment. If they say its worth $1500 then thats what you will be assessed on for customs.

Its complicated. I hope I explained it properly!
That makes sense Bruddah, so you are only taxed on the difference between the price of the diamonds each time, not the whole cost again.
 

Maisie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2006
Messages
12,578
Yes Bruddah, but the last time I sent my ring to WF for ring sizing I ended up being charged the full amount again. We are a year down the line and its still in dispute. A big nasty mess.
 

Maisie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2006
Messages
12,578
Date: 3/29/2009 2:36:59 PM
Author:sparkleaddict
Hi!

I''m not sure if this is the correct place to post this (so let me know if it needs to move) but I''ve a question for anyone in the UK who has upgraded their diamond with a US company - Maisie, I know you''ve done this a few times which is why I targeted you


Anyway, I''ve only just received my new 0.80ct ACA but as fantastic as it is, I know full well that I''ll be after a 1.0ct at some point in the next 18 months or so, possibly sooner if prices continue to drop (my poor H2B is cursing the day he let me choose my own ring
). My question is this - when you had the new stone shipped back to the UK, did you have to pay VAT on the full list price of the stone or just on the difference between the old and new stones?

Reading the HMRC guidance the implication is that I might have to pay VAT on the full price before any deductions for the stone I''m trading in. To me this seems really unfair but since when did that stop them
!

If anyone has experience with this I''d be really grateful for your input.

Thank you!
Hehe
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 3/29/2009 4:19:32 PM
Author: Maisie
Yes Bruddah, but the last time I sent my ring to WF for ring sizing I ended up being charged the full amount again. We are a year down the line and its still in dispute. A big nasty mess.
 

oldmancoyote

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 22, 2008
Messages
755
Date: 3/29/2009 4:04:29 PM
Author: Maisie
Hi

I have only ever had to pay duties on the price I paid for each transaction. If I have traded in my diamond I have only paid duties on the final price after trade in.

So if my old diamond was worth $1000 and the new one was worth $1500 I only paid duties on $500. Does that make sense?

If the paperwork shows the full value of the diamond then customs would ask for that full value. If the paperwork reflects the price you paid to upgrade you will get assessed on that plus the shipping cost.

I think it becomes an issue when the vendor needs to insure the shipment. If they say its worth $1500 then thats what you will be assessed on for customs.

Its complicated. I hope I explained it properly!
Ditto. In fact, the shipping cost will only be included in the VAT and import duty calculations if they are shown on the invoice/customs declaration. The problem with insurance remains a problem - although if you buy with a credit card it is sometimes covered through that.

Let''s forget the nightmare scenario of customs actually challenging the value declared and slapping on duty and VAT on what they think is the "fair" value of the item (yes, they can do that - unlikely to, but they can)...
 

jenniann

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 16, 2008
Messages
149
Thanks Maisie!

That makes perfect sense and is what I always assumed would happen. However, when I received my package form WF last week I was charged VAT on the full value of everything listed anywhere on the invoice - inlcuding items with a $0.00 value entered in the right hand column. This inculded my own setting which Vera had recorded the approximate value of but stated ''customers own'' in the description box.


I hope customs haven''t changed their policy, I''d rather hoped to be able to upgrade gradually but if it means paying VAT on the full cost each time I don''t think I''ll be able to justify it.

What a pain getting hit for the full charges when it only went out for sizing Maisie! I hope you get it sorted out. Just out of interest, if you need anything done with your new setting are you able to do this via Indira Marchant or does it need to go back to Wink?

Thanks again for the info!
 

Maisie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2006
Messages
12,578
I would work with Indira Marchant if I needed anything done with my new ring. I deliberately chose her for this reason. Its just too much trouble sending things back and forward.

When you sent your own setting out to Whiteflash there is a code you are supposed to fill out on the paperwork to show its going out but coming back in. As you probably already paid charges on that they wouldn''t have charged you again.

If you ever have to send your ring back to WF make sure you ask customs for the code to show its going out for repair/replacement. That should protect you from charges again.
 

HermioneM

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 15, 2009
Messages
21
Hi Sparkleaddict and Maisie,

Sorry for the mini thread-hijack, but just want to confirm something with you... Hope you don''t mind! I''m also in the UK and I''ve just ordered my ER through Brian Gavin Diamonds. The centre stone is coming from them, then being shipped to Mark Morrell for the setting, then being shipped back to BGD before final posting to me. So, am I correct in assuming that I will be charged VAT and import tax on the insured amount? So, theoretically, not that I would risk my new ER in this way, by insuring the parcel for a lower amount, the tax would be reduced? So, what happens if like in Maisie''s case, the insurance value is say X, but the total transaction cost Y is much lower? Does that mean that if something bad happens, your ring wouldn''t be insured? Sounds like a bit of a minefield to me!
 

jenniann

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 16, 2008
Messages
149
Hi Hermione

I''ve been doing quite a lot of research into this over the last 2 days, including several calls to the HMRC helpline. You will most likely be charged on the gross invoice amount i.e. the maiximum possible amount listed on the invoice including shipping charges and before deducting any discounts. The only way to reduce the charges would be to have DBG underdeclare the value on the invoice but this would creates a number of problems:

(1) it''s illegal and might get him into trouble as well as you
(2) it may well create insurance problems
(3) as oldmancoyote mentioned, if customs disagree with the vlaue on the invoice they do have the power to opena nd examine tha package and impose what they think is the ''fair'' value.

There is a VAT / customs helpline which is quite useful if you have other questions (Maisie - I think you posted this a while back) 0845 010 9000.

Can''t wait to see your new ring!
 

loveloveloveit

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
738
Hi everyone, I am very interested in seeing your thread. I am in Australia, and have a .70pt diamond that I am really quite tired of - it''s been in and out of engagement rings for quite a few years and really I''d love to upgrade. Is it "easy" to do?? Back when I got my "princess" it wasn''t certified although it''s a good colour and clarity - can anyone tell me how it works? Thanks heaps
 
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