Question about Tutorial

[Kareberry]

I spent some time reading the advanced tutorial on PS and did a lot of forum searches but I''m still sort of confused with all the terminology.

So far, I got that fire = dispersion = coloured light, brilliance = contrast = white vs dark areas when looking at a diamond and scintillation = sparkles. Correct me please if I''m wrong.

I''m confused because, what environment/lighting should I be looking at this diamond to determine those things? For example, when I''m looking at my diamond under office lighting I think I see mostly glare or is that scintillation? It''s very white with not many dark areas and there is no coloured light.

When I walk into a local B&M store, their lighting makes all the diamonds sparkle, white and shine rainbows! So if it sparkles colour that''s fire and if it sparkles white light that''s scintillation and I would only see brilliance in low light settings?

If my question has been answered in some other thread I didn''t click on, please direct me there too!

 

[oshinbreez]

You might want to check out the videos on Good Old Gold website. They''re quite informative. Link

 

[chrono]

Kareberry,
You''ve got it a little mixed up:
fire = dispersion = coloured light,
scintillation = contrast = white vs dark areas when looking at a diamond
brilliance = white light = white sparkles.

Office lighting is probably the worst lighting for a diamond and jewellery store lights is the best for diamonds. Halogen and candle light will bring out fire. Office lighting will only show brilliance and scintillation. Dappled sunlight will show a good bit of everything (but in direct sunlight, you''ll probably see brilliance and scintillation).

To see the diamonds true performance, it is best to view it in every concievable lighting you can think of: office, natural, etc. Most jewellers will let you check it out under various lightings. My own local jeweller let me bring it to the window for natural light and to their office for fluorescent light.

 

[Kareberry]

Then how does glare fit in?

 

[belle]

Date: 5/10/2007 4:53:30 PM
Author: Kareberry
Then how does glare fit in?

with ''glare'' are you talking about poorly cut diamonds where the only ''sparkle'' (in the most vague sense of the word) you see is the reflection off of the table facets?

 

[diagem]

Date: 5/10/2007 5:04:46 PM
Author: belle

Date: 5/10/2007 4:53:30 PM
Author: Kareberry
Then how does glare fit in?

with ''glare'' are you talking about poorly cut diamonds where the only ''sparkle'' (in the most vague sense of the word) you see is the reflection off of the table facets?

Every Diamond has glare=reflection from all the facets that stick out of the setting (jewelry).
Its not a symptom of a bad cut..., but it has to combine with the rest of the list.

 

[belle]

Date: 5/10/2007 5:41:16 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 5/10/2007 5:04:46 PM
Author: belle

Date: 5/10/2007 4:53:30 PM
Author: Kareberry
Then how does glare fit in?

with ''glare'' are you talking about poorly cut diamonds where the only ''sparkle'' (in the most vague sense of the word) you see is the reflection off of the table facets?

Every Diamond has glare=reflection from all the facets that stick out of the setting (jewelry).
Its not a symptom of a bad cut..., but it has to combine with the rest of the list.

i wasn''t saying it was a symptom of a bad cut diagem, just trying to relate to what she was asking.

 

[diagem]

Sorry Belle, I didnt say you did...
Just stating that all faceted Diamonds posses it.

 

[belle]

Date: 5/10/2007 5:50:34 PM
Author: DiaGem
Sorry Belle, I didnt say you did...
Just stating that all faceted Diamonds posses it.

cool, thanks for clarifying. and yes, agreed...all diamonds have reflections/glare off of the facets.
i think i was not explaining my meaning well. hopefully kareberry will clarify what she was asking and i can try and unmuddy my waters from there!

 

[Kareberry]

Yes, I think belle knows exactly what I mean...glare meaning the reflection off the surfaces of each facet...that''s different from scintillation right? I mean, if I''m buying a stone and I don''t have all those neat tools/technology to analyze this diamond how would I be able to differentiate between, brilliance, fire, scintillation vs glare?

The problem with being here in Canada, and I''m sure a lot of other people will agree is that the majority of jewelry chains here just suck! When I walk into a relatively better independent jewelery store all the diamonds look amazing, so what should I visually be looking for? And since I''m in such a nicely lit environment inside the store, are all the sparkles I''m seeing just glare?

 

[chrono]

Karebear,
Yes, glare is the glassy reflection off the facet. Since you aren''t sure of what to look for without tools, you might have to shop by the numbers first. Pick a jeweler and give them your specifications:
1. The usual carat weight, colour and clarity
2. Give a tight range of parameters for the table & depth
3. Go for a safe cert (AGS where the light performance is on the cert)
4. When the diamonds come in, run the numbers through the HCA

While typing this, I think you really need an Idealscope. It''s pretty cheap (under US$30) and will really help you pick out the right stone. It''ll be worth every dollar you spend, considering how much you are going to part with for the diamond.

 

[diagem]

Date: 5/10/2007 11:10:17 PM
Author: Kareberry
Yes, I think belle knows exactly what I mean...glare meaning the reflection off the surfaces of each facet...that''s different from scintillation right? I mean, if I''m buying a stone and I don''t have all those neat tools/technology to analyze this diamond how would I be able to differentiate between, brilliance, fire, scintillation vs glare?

Dont forget the most important tool!!! Your eyes....

The problem with being here in Canada, and I''m sure a lot of other people will agree is that the majority of jewelry chains here just suck! When I walk into a relatively better independent jewelery store all the diamonds look amazing, so what should I visually be looking for? And since I''m in such a nicely lit environment inside the store, are all the sparkles I''m seeing just glare?

 

[diagem]

Date: 5/11/2007 9:14:06 AM
Author: Chrono
Karebear,
Yes, glare is the glassy reflection off the facet. Since you aren''t sure of what to look for without tools, you might have to shop by the numbers first. Pick a jeweler and give them your specifications:
1. The usual carat weight, colour and clarity
2. Give a tight range of parameters for the table & depth
3. Go for a safe cert (AGS where the light performance is on the cert)
4. When the diamonds come in, run the numbers through the HCA

While typing this, I think you really need an Idealscope. It''s pretty cheap (under US$30) and will really help you pick out the right stone. It''ll be worth every dollar you spend, considering how much you are going to part with for the diamond.

If you are shopping for a fancy cut..., I wouldnt suggest shopping by numbers first!

 

[belle]

chrono is right, an idealscope would be a good investment. also, do you have any branded hearts and arrows (h&a's) stones like 'hearts on fire' or 'eightstar' there? i'm not crusading for h&a's, it's just a really easy way to track down a group of well cut diamonds. seeing diamonds that are known to be good performers is a great way to get an idea of what to look for. once you spend some time with well cut diamonds, you will assimilate what the differences are and you will be able to pick them out when looking at different stones.
whatever you do, if you are interested in weeding out a good cut, you need to get an idealscope. www.ideal-scope.com

 

[chrono]

Date: 5/11/2007 9:27:01 AM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 5/11/2007 9:14:06 AM
Author: Chrono
Karebear,
Yes, glare is the glassy reflection off the facet. Since you aren''t sure of what to look for without tools, you might have to shop by the numbers first. Pick a jeweler and give them your specifications:
1. The usual carat weight, colour and clarity
2. Give a tight range of parameters for the table & depth
3. Go for a safe cert (AGS where the light performance is on the cert)
4. When the diamonds come in, run the numbers through the HCA

While typing this, I think you really need an Idealscope. It''s pretty cheap (under US$30) and will really help you pick out the right stone. It''ll be worth every dollar you spend, considering how much you are going to part with for the diamond.

If you are shopping for a fancy cut..., I wouldnt suggest shopping by numbers first!

Well, I am assuming a round brilliant cut, which you can shop by the numbers. You are correct that for fancies, numbers won''t do too much though. It''ll help but like I posted earlier, an Idealscope is best for those with inexperienced eyes.

 

[Rhino]

Good morning. Just reading and thought I''d add my .02c

Diagem is correct in the sense that all diamonds (and gemstones for that matter) will produce glare. You can see it in the vids that were linked as the diamonds are rocked and tilted.

The optical characteristics (brightness, fire & scintillation) you''ll see within diamond depend upon the lighting environment you''re in.

Brightness & Patterned Scintillation: The reflections of white light seen both from facet surfaces and primarily internal reflections off the pavilion. Brightness is mainly observed in lighting environements depicting cool diffused white light. Outside on a cloudy day is the most natural diffused white light source I can think of however the same phenomena can be observed outside on a sunny day yet in the shade as well. Office lighting shows a quasi-similar view but the reflections are softer in the more natural conditions and the reflections are harder (more individual and stronger) as the lighting grows less diffuse. The type of scintillation observed in these diffuse conditions is as Chrono has described. "contrast = white vs dark areas when looking at a diamond" Plainly put this type of scintillation is properly described as "patterned scintillation". In the GIA Cut Grading system "patterned scintillation" is something that is observed both statically and dynamically (still & moving) as the light and dark reflections off the pavilion form either a pleasing or unpleasing pattern to the eyes. The 2 primary factors that contribute to a decrease in both brightness and patterned scintillation are both steep angled diamonds (which contribute toa glassy/watery appearance) and shallow angled diamonds (which contribute to too many darks as opposed to lighter areas within the diamond as there are too many facets reflecting back the reflection of the observer standing before the diamond).

Fire & Sparkle Scintillation: A general rule of thumb with diamonds is the stronger the light source the more it should function as a prism breaking up the stronger white light entering the diamond into its spectral components (ROYGBIV). The reflections observed are stronger/harder and more individualized allowing the observer to see characteristics that many describe as broad fire/pin fire flash. Some diamonds, depending on the cutting style place a heavier emphasis on broad fire flash, some pin fire flash and there are combinations which many feel offer the best balance of both. Lower girdle facet length is a great contributer to one appearance or the other within ideal 57 facet round brilliant cuts however adding more facets to a diamond cut to ideal proportions can produce some really insane optics and contribute to notably more sparkle. These stronger/harder reflections are what are commonly referred to as "sparkle scintillation" which most layman are familiar with. These sparkles can be both white and colored depending upon the strength of the light source used in the observation.

Hope that helps.

Regards,

 

[Kareberry]

Thanks for all the comments everyone! And your summaries, Rhino helped me make sense of everything. Actually, haven''t been around the forum cuz I spent so much time watching all those videos on GOG! Those video''s are fantastic by the way. I finally understand what everyone means when they say "use your eyes". Seeing all those ideals and superideals is a huge difference from what I''ve been seeing in those B&M stores. I haven''t had much luck locating H&A diamonds here in Canada and the ONE store I did find them in has a no refund/no exchange policy, but most importantly they were just salespeople without much knowledge about diamonds at all.

I noticed on some other threads that a lot of people are in awe of what an Eighstar really looks like. Too bad there aren''t any eightstar videos on GOG. Can someone describe what those 8*s look like...broad fire flash or pin? If I liked broad fire flash under spot lighting, strong fire even under low light settings and more contrast in diffuse light what brand/cut should I be looking for? I realize my question is more about personal preference so there might not be a definite answer, but any comments are appreciated!