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Question about the following the rules?

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Pussy Cat

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 8, 2003
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12
Leonid posted the following rule sometime ago; "MERCHANTS: You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to promote your own services and products."


Is someone walking the bright line between following the rule and promoting their services and products?

Is that someone a bit hypocritical since in the past they have lambasted another about this particular issue?


What’s good for the goose is good for the gander...

I may be a newbie, but I have read a lot of interesting old drama on this awesome site. I firmly believe that if one person chastises another for something similar they have done or are willing to do, they should be held to the same standard that they demand of others.

This observation should not be misconstrued as anything other than an independent and good natured piece of constructive criticism.

Meow, Meow...

 

canadiangrrl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2003
Messages
787
What's with the muckraking?

I understand the reason for such a rule, but it's pretty subjective.

As a consumer, I come here to learn. I want to make the most informed, educated decision before my better half spends thousands on a diamond. In that regard, I'm no different from the hundreds if not thousands of other consumers who troll this board. If that information happens to be offered to me by a vendor, so be it. If that vendor happens to have stones that meet the criteria I'm seeking - even better. I genuinely appreciate the feedback I'm given from vendors - who invest of their time freely and educate me *sans* sales pressure - and with zero commitment from me to purchase anything from them, ever. I'm also a mature adult who is able to separate the wheat from the chaff - meaning, I know when I'm being fed a pitch.

Not real sure where you were going with this - and I'm not interested in the history - just my 2 cents.
 

Pussy Cat

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 8, 2003
Messages
12
I agree with you one hundred percent, but if one vendor viciously attacks another vendor for doing something quite similar to what you have described as your favorable expectation and experience with vendors on this site, I thought it noteworthy to comment on the issue.


Meow
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,302
I think in traditional media editorial terms Leonid has just enabled information to be disseminated about a new product.

This may be close to the line, however if other new products were released it would be reasonable to expect that they too could have an airing


There are plenty of new cuts in particular that would not wish to be publicised here however.
The reason could be that their offer could be shown to be inferior because this forum is interactive and leaves no place to hide.

Meow meow
 

Pussy Cat

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 8, 2003
Messages
12
Oh and by the way canadiangrrl, you seem to be a (potential) client and/or friend of that particular someone, so I will consider your two cents as somewhat biased. At least my opinion is neutral, since I am not chummy with this particular someone.

mkgnao, mrkgnao, mrkrgnao...
 

elmo

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Messages
1,160
Why does a retailer have to self-promote, when there are so many consumers here to shill for the retailer, like lemmings?
 

pricescope

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
8,266
A few comments.

I considered the first version of Rhino' post as out of line indeed because he just provided a link to the page on his site. I emailed Rhino that it is against the forum rules and took a liberty to edit his post showing him how this information should be presented.

Indeed, Rhino is selling this product but this is also a new cut on the market and it might be interesting for consumers. If any other vendor or consumer have information/education (don’t confuse with blatant advertisement) about new diamond products, it deserved to be presented here.

Pussy Cat,

during your registration.

I have to draw your attention to the following two rules:

Rule #12: Discussions about moderator or administrator actions are welcome in email or local private messages, but should not be discussed in public forums. This is out of respect for the members and moderators or policy involved.

That means you should email me privately about your concerns instead of creating a new drama.

Rule #14: Do not create multiple memberships (multiple IDs). These members will be banned.

You have exactly the same IP address as Dr. Know Little Diamond .


The policy words that you've quoted above are not there for quite a long time. It makes me think you’ve been around for quite a while.


I think you are using multiple IDs. Please explain these odds to me in private correspondence. Until then, unfortunately, I have to suspend your membership. [/u]
 

AGBF

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 26, 2003
Messages
21,318
I never saw the unedited version of Jonathan's posting, but I felt the edited version was very appropriate here. It was informative and if a vendor can keep us udpated, then he is doing the forum a service.

BTW, I am not a customer of Jonathan.

 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Leo...I think your editing of the post was very appropriate, but of course once I see those beautiful sparkles on the new cut of stone, I tend to get very distracted and notice little else!


I, as a forum member, love seeing the experts and/or trade members post new data or tools or new cuts of stones that they feel are going to make a mark. I hope the sharing does not stop!

BTW I love this IP tracking stuff. I better stay in line...heehee.
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272
The question is how do I teach John Q. Public on the forums about new cuts/technologies without appearing in someone's eyes to be self promoting? I am glad Pussy Cat/Dr. Know Little wrote on this becuase I think this needs to be addressed. If it is wrong for me to educate people here and it goes against rules then I simply will not share any information on these forums concerning the new technologies measuring the minor facets and their impact on brilliance, fire, scintillation, the upcoming Isee2, new cuts and stuff coming down the pike. Leonid, you know I keep cutting edge insofar as this industry is concerned and always have the latest to help educate and share. My post teaching about the new Queen of Hearts was not in response to someone asking for a diamond. It was strictly educational in content and there is no pitch to anyone on the forums. I was simply sharing my enthusiasm about a new product which shows a leap forward in cutting technology for modified squares and light return within modified squares.

To any reading ... I have to honestly ask ...

Did my post and does my page regarding the Queen of Hearts (which Leonid copied word for word on the forum) sound like a pitch? Do you honestly feel it is wrong for me to educate the people on the diamond forums concerning new cuts and technologies coming onto the market?

If it is wrong then I will refrain from posting any educational content.

I realize no matter what I share I will always appear in someone's eyes to be "self promoting" but how can you share information about Sarin's, BrillianceScope's, MegaScope's, H&A pictures, H&A scopes, LightScope's, IdealScopes' etc. without making it evident that YOU INDEED offer these services? I couldn't comment on any of the above if I didn't offer the services and work first hand with the equipment.

Another issue that Barry and perhaps Pussy Cat would have a problem with too is if a person is on the forums asking for advice on how a diamond may appear that has 34.5 crown angles, 40.7 pavilion angles and a 56 table. In an effort to help the person and give them an idea of how the stone may perform in a real optical test I will point them to a link on my site WITH THOSE EXACT PROPORTIONS teaching them what they might expect to help this person out. Is helping the person in this regards wrong too?

Should my future response be ... I'd like to show you a live example of what you can expect but I'm not aloud to on this forum?

I'd like to hear some input on this and if I'm crossing a line I shouldn't I'm open to listen.

Kind regards,
Rhino
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272
Ok ... sorry for drudging this up. It had me concerned though as I enjoy participating here and helping people and I greatly respect the operation Leonid is running here. I asked those questions because I don't want to violate Leonid's rules. If providing that information/educational content somehow violates rules I have no problem being a team player.

Peace,
Rhino
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
One suggestion Rhino (since you ask!) is that if you want to post something as you did on Queen of Hearts...is to post the pictures the way you did (or Leo did) in your post. That way you are not necessarily directing someone to a spot on your site, and/or product pages, whether its a new cut of stone, or a new tool or a specific 40.6 degree pav angle 34.5 crown angle stone. If you post the picture itself to answer the question or convey what you are trying to explain instead of posting a link to your site (which is a hybrid in itself because its heavily educational but still revenue driven), you really minimize the instances where someone could jump to conclusions and/or accuse you of toeing the line.

Then if someone wants to see the stone you posted, or the new cut of stone, they can look up your signature, or your profile and find your url. Then find your site etc. You get alot of promotion on here what with all the excellent stones you sell, so newbies figure out pretty quickly where the sites are to visit IMO!


Personally I know there will always be some sort of overlap when you have online vendors who are also experts and/or responsible for new technology or cutting edge advancements. I, for one, would love to hear about the new items much more than I care about wondering if someone is toeing the line (and that is not really our job anyway!).

My two cents. No one is ever able to please everyone...so you just do the best you can with what you feel is right.
 

pricescope

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
8,266
) and Pussy Cat didn't actually broke the rule #12 since she didn't discussed moderators actions.

Same IPs Dr.KLD explained that in his building everybody have the same the same IP addresses because the same ISP (Internet Service Provider). I agree that same IP address is not 100% prove that it is the same person (although the odds are extremely small).

Nonetheless, in attempt to be fair and not to allow my paranoia to eat me alive, I restore their membership and offer my apologies.[/u][/u]
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272
Very good.

Mara part of the problem was I didn't know how to post multiple pictures in a thread (tutorial) like Leonid has done. Contrary to what Pussy Cat as said I never EVER objected to anyone linking people on the forum to educational content be it from our website, JCK or WHEREEVER. Educational content is educational content and I felt the the content of the link I posted was purely educational. In the past what I have objected to was when a vendor would interrupt a thread when a client was working with someone or was interested in purchasing a product and the vendor tries to push his product disrupting the sale of another (not me either). If a client is happy working with someone LEAVE THEM ALONE. If they want to check out the goods of another let the client make that decision.

Pussy Cat somehow had a problem with me posting a link to educational data on our website. Is this really a problem? I'll do it the way you suggested though to avoid ridiculous accusations.

Peace,
Rhino
 

canadiangrrl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2003
Messages
787
Whoa.

Yep, I'm a potential friend/client of Rhino's. And in the interests of full disclosure, since this has turned into something resembling Nuremburg, I'm also a potential friend/client of Whiteflash, Dirt Cheap Diamonds, Abazias, and Blue Nile, since I've had favourable exchanges with each of those vendors as well.

But rest assured, my inner lemming won't be shilling for any one particular vendor until I've sucked up to each and every one of them.
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
Canadagirl - funny!

Leonid, IMHO, you do not have to explain nor apologize. Yeah right, another person in the same office building participating at the same time on Pricescope. Quite frankly, I smelled a rat *long* before this thread.

Multiple ID's should be forbidden. Multiple ID's can lead to many Problems. Why would someone legitimately feel the need to do so?
 

pricescope

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
8,266
----------------
Leonid, IMHO, you do not have to explain nor apologize.
----------------
F&I, I don't mind admitting if I'm wrong


but wasn't included into membership agreement.

Again formally speaking "Pussy Cat" didn't discuss moderator' actions...

I was overreacting because certain merchants use to complain that I'm more linen to others. This thread came up right after when I just emailed Rhino and fixed his post (hate doing that btw).

That is what I apologized for


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Yeah right, another person in the same office building participating at the same time on Pricescope. Quite frankly, I smelled a rat *long* before this thread.
----------------
I'm not the FBI nor KGB so I will keep my opinion for myself

----------------
Multiple ID's should be forbidden. Multiple ID's can lead to many Problems. Why would someone legitimately feel the need to do so?
----------------
Yep
[/u]
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,144

----------------
On 7/14/2003 9:41:25 AM fire&ice wrote:
Yeah right, another person in the same office building participating at the same time on Pricescope. Quite frankly, I smelled a rat *long* before this thread.

----------------
F&I, we are somewhat on the same wavelength, because I felt that something was fishy the first time I saw posts from Dr. KLD....I personally think it's someone already registered. Same with Pussy Cat.

HOWEVER.....I have to point out that it is not as far-fetched as you would think to have multiple users from an IP address. My puter at work is much faster than at home, so I tend to drop in here when I have a quick minute, etc.

There are 200 people at my company, and it's not beyond the realm of possibility that one of them may also register...and they would reflect the same IP address I do.

To further complicate things, I've told a few people I work with here about Pricescope also.....we got into a discussion about the jewelry at Costco, and I mentioned that they could get more for the money by coming here.

It's discomforting to think that my integrity could be called into question because I actually recommended Pricescope to co-workers (who may then post from the same IP address). Had I actually considered this possibility, I may have refrained from recommending Pricescope, and I think we all lose in that situation.

While it may not be terribly PROBABLE, it is entirely POSSIBLE that two separate posters may reflect the same IP address. For the potential success and growth of Pricescope, I think we need to be willing to give that benefit of the doubt on that.
 
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