Question about PayPal Claim and Chargeback

[YadaYadaYada]

@Golden_bird, of course here I am talking about it and all. So here are some pictures, the center stone was supposed to be a Forever Brilliant moissanite but it's not a Charles and Colvard stone.

I'm thinking an OEC moissanite would be great in this setting, it's not a bad stone just more tinted than it should have been.

ETA: its a rose gold band with white gold basket center stone is 7.5mm

 

[Golden_bird]

@Golden_bird, of course here I am talking about it and all. So here are some pictures, the center stone was supposed to be a Forever Brilliant moissanite but it's not a Charles and Colvard stone.

I'm thinking an OEC moissanite would be great in this setting, it's not a bad stone just more tinted than it should have been.

ETA: its a rose gold band with white gold basket center stone is 7.5mm

Awee!! It’s beautiful! I love that vintage feel to the ring !def keep the setting and find the stone you love !!ps I really like all your little bands

 

[Rhea]

Absolutely do not touch the ring for a couple of weeks. I highly doubt this will happen, but should paypal come back to you, you want to be able to provide the ring intact. It's unlikely because they already decided in your favour and you have your money, but stranger things have happened. It's a situation where I'd want my hands as clean as possible just to be certain.

The seller may not be silly, paypal may be taking the hit under their scheme. There's a reason they charge fees. I won a paypal case for a ring I sold years ago. The buyer was fraudulent, but I don't remember how. Paypal decided in my favour and closed the case so I got my money, but I also found out the buyer had both her money and the ring. Paypal simply covered it under my seller protection and quit perusing her.

 

[arkieb1]

Why don't you just ask the vendor (after you get a full refund) for an updated address and send the ring back to her. It seems kind of bad karma to me to now keep the ring when you have a full refund. And I would also point out that the stone should have been checked out in full before it was reset or adjusted and then sent back, I sell things from time to time and having someone messing with a stone in a setting and then wanting to send it back again on the flip side is every sellers worst nightmare. I'm not saying your vendor swapped anything because I can't see why anyone would do so, but stones can be chipped damaged and lost when benches start messing with them.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

@arkieb1, I'm a big believer in karma but don't you think it would be foolish to go through any extra effort for someone who clearly tried to scam me out of money? I've thought about this, even if she legitimately didn't know it wasn't a branded stone that she claimed in the listing, wouldn't she have apologized? Upon getting an email that the merchandise was not as I described (and where the buyer had invested money into it and was willing to accept a partial refund) I would have immediately apologized and tried to come to a compromise. She didn't do that instead she said "oh well the gold is worth at least that much" and then totally ignored me until I opened a dispute with PayPal.

Maybe I will donate it to an animal shelter so they can sell it and benefit from the proceeds.

 

[missy]

@arkieb1, I'm a big believer in karma but don't you think it would be foolish to go through any extra effort for someone who clearly tried to scam me out of money? I've thought about this, even if she legitimately didn't know it wasn't a branded stone that she claimed in the listing, wouldn't she have apologized? Upon getting an email that the merchandise was not as I described (and where the buyer had invested money into it and was willing to accept a partial refund) I would have immediately apologized and tried to come to a compromise. She didn't do that instead she said "oh well the gold is worth at least that much" and then totally ignored me until I opened a dispute with PayPal.

Maybe I will donate it to an animal shelter so they can sell it and benefit from the proceeds.

@StephanieLynn yes I am with you. I would take that money and donate it to an animal shelter. The vendor is a low life IMO and is/was trying to cheat you. You gave her more than one chance to make it right and yet she continued with her dishonest ways. It would be good karma to donate it to an animal charity IMO. I am sorry you are going through this and good luck!

 

[arkieb1]

Yes totally she should have apologised and taken the ring back again, and done everything in her power to fix the error, the fact Ebay/Paypal or whomever had to step in proves that, but I'm not sure keeping something meaning now the vendor is out of pocket for that item is fair either. Yes she should have fixed it but IMHO two wrongs don't make a right....

I go with the theory unless we walk a mile in the other person's shoes we cannot understand them. So in this case if she has moved several times she might not have really had a return address for you to send it back, she could be struggling financially and didn't want it back and a whole heap of other things that you and I don't on a daily basis have to deal with, that's all I'm pointing out here.

 

[pearlsngems]

A consideration: if the seller gets it back she may try to scam someone else with it.

I think donating it seems like a good idea, personally.
(edited for typo)

 

[arkieb1]

A consideration: if the seller gets if back she may try to scam someone else with it.

I think donating it seems like a good idea, personally.

Or the woman might have not known it was a different stone. I've lost count of the amount of vendors including some of the ones listed here as being good that have sent me stuff that wasn't as described... and I don't think any of them including more than one that heavily photoshops their coloured stone photos is trying to scam everyone. That person is out of pocket for the cost of the setting, and somehow it doesn't seem fair to me that if you get a full refund that person doesn't get it back again, but if you all think it's more appropriate to send the thing to a dog shelter than a person that IMHO may be struggling (because lets face it you don't actually know that person's full story) then I guess that's your call.

 

[pearlsngems]

Another alternative is to sell the ring yourself (fully disclosing its qualities) to recover the money you put into it, and send the balance to the seller.

The seller wanted money, not the ring, otherwise she would not have sold it in the first place.

 

[Slickk]

I am sorry you're going theough this. It's not easy and I wasn't going to comment but did want to add a couple of things if I may...

First, a couple of years ago I bought a forever brilliant oec from C&C and when I went to sell it, I couldn't find the forever brilliant inscription with my loupe, so I do wonder if they all have that inscription since I bought from a reputable seller. Perhaps this is a FB as they do show some color.
Second, as a seller and purchaser on LT and DB, I wonder if this isn't her nightmare too. I recall that ring being listed at least a couple of times, at very attractive pricing, almost pulled the trigger myself as the setting is so pretty. Perhaps she was stating what the previous seller had listed. Is it, in fact, a moissy?
Lastly, I think once you took your new ring to your jeweler and had any bench work done, beyond basic testing to make sure it was a moissy and proper metal, it became a final sale. I, too, would be hesitant to issue a refund after it was worked on, the stone removed and reset.
Also, could it be possible that her address story is correct and she never changed her information on PayPal? This certainly makes me hesitant to sell any longer.
Again, I feel terrible for you that you feel shorted, but I feel you have your money back, the seller should get the merchandise back imho. Good luck, it is a pretty ring and I hope you can enjoy it.

 

[pearlsngems]

Sandeek makes good points. You could err on the side of kindness and sent the ring back to the seller.

 

[lyra]

I couldn't in good conscience, keep the ring or sell or donate it. I just wouldn't feel right regardless of the background situation. I think it's bad karma even if the seller is not a great person. We don't really know her circumstances, just that she was selling for some reason. JMO.

 

[pearlsngems]

The buyer has already had to incur costs just to find out that the item was not C&C as described. Then she spent more to send it back to the seller. I don't think she should have to spend even more to return the ring. If she wants to, fine, but I don't think it's an ethical issue.

The bad karma (if there is any) is on the side of the seller IMO, for selling as C&C as ring that wasn't. If she didn't know for sure that it was a C&C, she ought not to have described it as such. She could have used a more generic description.

In any case, the OP will figure out how she wants to handle this, and my opinions are only opinions.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

I appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions, I usually respond to each person individually but it's kind of a busy day so forgive me for doing one blanket response.

DH suggested that he is willing to give her the ring back if she pays for postage (the postage we incurred sending it for it to go nowhere and the postage to get it to her where she is now). Here is where I get stuck, if PayPal sides with her on the appeal (which they may do with the address mixup) and they refund her the money AND I send the ring back then doesn't that seem like she benefited from this whole situation? I don't mind that she gets made whole but I don't want her to be in a better position than before she sold the ring. That just doesn't seem right. It also isn't right that I benefit by getting a refund AND keeping the ring either which is why I had the idea of donating it.

Sorry, maybe I am jaded by this whole thing but I just can't figure out a good resolution. Maybe I could wait on the appeal decision and if she loses then contact her to send it back?

 

[Golden_bird]

I appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions, I usually respond to each person individually but it's kind of a busy day so forgive me for doing one blanket response.

DH suggested that he is willing to give her the ring back if she pays for postage (the postage we incurred sending it for it to go nowhere and the postage to get it to her where she is now). Here is where I get stuck, if PayPal sides with her on the appeal (which they may do with the address mixup) and they refund her the money AND I send the ring back then doesn't that seem like she benefited from this whole situation? I don't mind that she gets made whole but I don't want her to be in a better position than before she sold the ring. That just doesn't seem right. It also isn't right that I benefit by getting a refund AND keeping the ring either which is why I had the idea of donating it.

Sorry, maybe I am jaded by this whole thing but I just can't figure out a good resolution. Maybe I could wait on the appeal decision and if she loses then contact her to send it back?

I would just wait and see . Don’t stress about it ! It has been already ton of stress about such a pleasant experience to get a new shinenie :roll listen to your heart . It already has an answer to all your questions PayPal will def help her out with a refund for a lost item I guess .its all about following the rules . If you break the rule ,you are getting punished and fine. If you didn’t park the car in right place ,it’s your failut ,they don’t care ,pay for it and learn a lesson hard way

 

[pearlsngems]

Wait for the results of the appeal, and then go from there with whatever gives you peace of mind.

 

[lyra]

Oh she should absolutely pay for return postage. The idea IMO would be for a neutral thing where the buyer isn't out anything and the seller gets the item back to resell. I'm probably just gullible and overly empathetic in the case that the buyer actually needs the money. It's not a judgement call against either party, it's just what would sit right with me, if it were me, which obviously it is not.

 

[arkieb1]

Oh she should absolutely pay for return postage. The idea IMO would be for a neutral thing where the buyer isn't out anything and the seller gets the item back to resell. I'm probably just gullible and overly empathetic in the case that the buyer actually needs the money. It's not a judgement call against either party, it's just what would sit right with me, if it were me, which obviously it is not.

+1 yes wait until you know for sure what Paypal or Ebay decides, no one expects you to be out of pocket for the ring so don't even think of sending it back until a final decision has been made. And yes the vendor should be paying ALL postage costs.

 

[kgizo]

I like your original plan of donating it and if it were me I would do that. I would hold off for a bit in case she does contact you to arrange a return, in which case I would return it. But this has been a very difficult business transaction and if you start up communication with her who knows what things she may say and how that could upset you. You have given her multiple opportunities to work things out and at this point I think its best just to let it go.

 

[missy]

I like your original plan of donating it and if it were me I would do that. I would hold off for a bit in case she does contact you to arrange a return, in which case I would return it. But this has been a very difficult business transaction and if you start up communication with her who knows what things she may say and how that could upset you. You have given her multiple opportunities to work things out and at this point I think its best just to let it go.

Yes, definitely wait and see what happens. I worry if you send the ring back to her what games she could continue playing. Do not trust her to behave properly. That definition of insanity holds true (expecting a different outcome). I cannot see her being willing to pay for the return etc especially because she didnt give you the correct address when you first attempted to return it to her. Are you out the postage and expense with that first attempted return? She has shown you who she is and I am not sure what extenuating circumstances would excuse this behavior. But in any case you do not have to decide just yet. Wait and see how it goes. Good luck and no matter what you do we are all rooting for you and hope it turns out well.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

@missy, yes we are out the $12 I paid to ship it to return it to her. It's just really ridiculous, like it didn't need to be this difficult, I figured mail it back get our refund and be done with it you know?

I know some may not agree because she might be in a poor financial situation etc but she didn't help herself by being difficult and so I'm giving it a year and then we will donate it to an animal shelter. Considering how unnecessarily uncooperative she has been I would rather help the animals. Some may not agree with that or may consider that putting an animal before a human's well being but this is what we feel would be the best outcome for an extremely negative situation.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

I think it is finally over, I logged into Paypal and the front screen always said there were unresolved problems when I logged in before and this morning that message was gone.

I don't have the ring, never got it back after I spoke to the post office in NJ and asked them to mail it back. What ended up happening is it came back and went to MA before apparently being delivered to Union, NJ where someone signed for it with initials but we have no idea whose initials or what address it was sent to. We called Paypal that night to tell them it was delivered to someone and they noted the account, this was Friday. So I don't have to worry about what to do with the ring or bad karma, kind of a relief to be honest.

With that said, although I don't know if this was intentional or not, I would avoid transactions with Pamela Belo on Loupetroop or Diamond Bistro, she would probably list a location out of NJ or MD. Again, I don't know that she intentionally sold an unbranded moissanite but her attitude and antics were less than helpful in resolving this whole issue.