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Question about hand fabrication and porosity!

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kennedy

Shiny_Rock
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Apr 7, 2007
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Quick question: I have a platinum ring that was hand wrought using wire (no casting involved). Is it possible for such a ring to have porosity? I've had the ring for about 5 months and noticed today a lot of tiny little dings in one area on the shank. I have no idea what I did, but I wanted to make sure that these are just scratches and that there's no chance the little pits/dings are porosity. Assuming they're not, how easy is it to have dings polished out of platinum? Thanks in advance for any help!
 

Diamond Explorer

Shiny_Rock
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Wire for fabrication is usually rolled giving very little chance of porosity. Most likely it is a new abrasion that you are just noticing. I bet it could be polished out easily. If it were a casted piece I would be more likely to believe there would be pitting from porosity.
 

kennedy

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Date: 3/30/2009 11:14:42 PM
Author: Diamond Explorer
Wire for fabrication is usually rolled giving very little chance of porosity. Most likely it is a new abrasion that you are just noticing. I bet it could be polished out easily. If it were a casted piece I would be more likely to believe there would be pitting from porosity.

Thank you for your reply. I''m relived to hear it''s not likely to be porosity. That''s one of the reasons I spent the money on a hand wrought piece. The dings are definitely new. I took my daughter to the beach yesterday, so I''m assuming I did something to the ring while we were there. It almost looks like someone took sandpaper to the shank.

Another quick question: Does it take any skill to polish a platinum ring? In other words, is there any chance of someone polishing away too much metal and/or distorting the shape of the shank?

Thanks again!
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I agree there is little chance of porosity.

Polishing plat takes practice and some skill but it is something most benchmen are good at and have a lot of practice doing.
 

Diamond Explorer

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Platinum is nice for the fact that it takes polishing well over time. Gold can be polished away with over-polishing but platinum is more durable and withstands polishing very well over time. You dont have to be a master to polish platinum. You just have to know how to do it properly. The riskiest part is if the jeweler insecurely holds it and sends the piece flying at high speeds into the wall. A good grip requires strong agile hands.
 

kennedy

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 7, 2007
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284
Thanks Strm and Diamond Explorer! Very helpful information. I think I''ll just wait until I can take it in to the jeweler who made the ring. I''m sure my ring will get many more nicks and dings -- I should just get used to it. It''s just odd because these dings look smaller and deeper than the others -- I still can''t imagine what I did to it. Thanks again!
 

ajourklaus

Rough_Rock
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Feb 29, 2008
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39
Hi Kennedy,
in a forged piece of jewelry, platinum or any other metal for that matter, should not show porosity.
Having said that there are a lot of possibilities for an inexperienced gold smith to "create" porosity.
Porosity can happen where the forged pieces where soldered together, bad overcooked solder. Some guys overheat their pieces when soldering which can create porosity far away from the solder joint. Even when using a laser-welder porosity can happen.
When poring an ingot porosity happens. The process of forging and compressing the ingot gets rid of most the porosity.

I do not agree as mentioned above that platinum is an easy to polish metal. It is not. Fact of the matter is that most bench jewelers have no idea how to polish platinum in a perfect professional matter; looking like a mirror with absolutely no file of sandpaper markings.
It takes about three times as long to finish a piece of platinum versus the same piece in gold. If you want to see perfectly finished platinum pieces google "MWM platinum". This is professionally finished platinum, and believe me it takes many hours of work to get to a finish like that.

To get back to your ring. Maybe it was never finished properly, or it was cast after all, or the most likely scenario you are scratching up the ring. As mentioned above platinum is easy to mar or scratch. A picture of your ring would help.

Everything can be repaired or taken care of, find the best shop in your area and you''ll have a super ring soon.

Klaus
 

Diamond Explorer

Shiny_Rock
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Date: 3/31/2009 1:54:03 PM
Author: ajourklaus

...I do not agree as mentioned above that platinum is an easy to polish metal. It is not. Fact of the matter is that most bench jewelers have no idea how to polish platinum in a perfect professional matter; looking like a mirror with absolutely no file of sandpaper markings.

It takes about three times as long to finish a piece of platinum versus the same piece in gold...
Not to say it is easy to polish platinum. And I agree with you that platinum is harder to polish than gold. It requires more effort and expertise to put a full professional polish on a piece of platinum jewelry compared to gold or silver.

In maintaining platinum jewelry, often everyday pieces like wedding and engagement rings, a full polish is usually not required. Sometimes a simple buff under the wheel is all that is really required to bring back the shine. Some people are uncomfortable being without their rings for a long length of time, and a quick buff will do the trick most of the time while they are waiting.
 

kennedy

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 7, 2007
Messages
284
Date: 3/31/2009 1:54:03 PM
Author: ajourklaus
Hi Kennedy,

in a forged piece of jewelry, platinum or any other metal for that matter, should not show porosity.

Having said that there are a lot of possibilities for an inexperienced gold smith to ''create'' porosity.

Porosity can happen where the forged pieces where soldered together, bad overcooked solder. Some guys overheat their pieces when soldering which can create porosity far away from the solder joint. Even when using a laser-welder porosity can happen.

When poring an ingot porosity happens. The process of forging and compressing the ingot gets rid of most the porosity.


I do not agree as mentioned above that platinum is an easy to polish metal. It is not. Fact of the matter is that most bench jewelers have no idea how to polish platinum in a perfect professional matter; looking like a mirror with absolutely no file of sandpaper markings.

It takes about three times as long to finish a piece of platinum versus the same piece in gold. If you want to see perfectly finished platinum pieces google ''MWM platinum''. This is professionally finished platinum, and believe me it takes many hours of work to get to a finish like that.


To get back to your ring. Maybe it was never finished properly, or it was cast after all, or the most likely scenario you are scratching up the ring. As mentioned above platinum is easy to mar or scratch. A picture of your ring would help.


Everything can be repaired or taken care of, find the best shop in your area and you''ll have a super ring soon.


Klaus
Thank you for your reply.

My ring was definitely not cast. It was made by a very well-regarded jeweler and the finish on the ring was probably the best I''ve ever seen. That''s why I''m so upset to have dinged it up so badly without even realizing it. My question about polishing platinum was not about how difficult it is to finish a new piece, but about how much skill is required to buff out superficial dings due to normal wear and tear. I''m still not sure whether to just leave it as is since I''m bound to get more scratches or have it polished even if that means losing a small amount of metal. I guess this is kind of like getting the first dent in a new car.
 

Diamond Explorer

Shiny_Rock
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I wouldn''t worry about losing any metal from buffing your ring. Platinum tends to be pushed around rather than polished away. The weight of your ring should remain pretty constant over time.
 

oldmancoyote

Brilliant_Rock
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Aug 22, 2008
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Date: 3/30/2009 11:25:56 PM
Author: kennedy

Thank you for your reply. I''m relived to hear it''s not likely to be porosity. That''s one of the reasons I spent the money on a hand wrought piece. The dings are definitely new. I took my daughter to the beach yesterday, so I''m assuming I did something to the ring while we were there. It almost looks like someone took sandpaper to the shank.
[snip]
Maybe not sandpaper, but sand? It''s about as abrasive as you can go...
 

kennedy

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Date: 4/1/2009 5:52:14 AM
Author: oldmancoyote
Date: 3/30/2009 11:25:56 PM

Author: kennedy


Thank you for your reply. I''m relived to hear it''s not likely to be porosity. That''s one of the reasons I spent the money on a hand wrought piece. The dings are definitely new. I took my daughter to the beach yesterday, so I''m assuming I did something to the ring while we were there. It almost looks like someone took sandpaper to the shank.

[snip]
Maybe not sandpaper, but sand? It''s about as abrasive as you can go...

I''m sure you''re right, OMC. We hadn''t planned to go down to the beach since it''s still about 40 degrees here, but my daughter insisted that we make a sandcastle. I feel stupid for not thinking that the sand would likely do a number on my ring. Lesson learned!
 

ajourklaus

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Messages
39
Kennedy,
what I tell my customers is that your jewelry will develop a patina. Depending on your lifestyle and hobbies this can be more or less pronounced.
Have your piece cleaned up and see. If you ding it up very quickly, ...... that''s part of your patina no use fighting it, or you will be very unhappy.

The metal loss in the cleanup is very very small I would not be concerned about it. Fact is though, unless you are burnishing a piece, polishing is done on a abrasive basis, meaning metal is taken away. But again we are talking very small amounts.
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
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4,607
Does all forged jewellery start with an ingot? I mean has the wire been an ingot at some stage previously? Does all precious metals start as ingots in order to determine they are 24 carat gold etc? Is some casting done from powder, is that made up from gold ingots and other alloys before being powdered? Do the manufacturers who produce gold parts and wires to jewellers begin with gold ingots or gold sheets?
 
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