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Question about "family" diamond specs relative to setting

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whitelightning

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 15, 2011
Messages
7
Hi all,

I've been doing research for a while for an engagement ring, and I've gotten to a point where I'd like to ask the experts some specific questions.

I have a family diamond which I'm lucky enough to be using for the ring, but I'm not able to get a clear HCA score from the dimensions I have on file:

  • Round brilliant cut
    5.79mm - 5.89mm x 4.10mm
    1.02 carats
    Depth: 69.0%
    Table: 62%
    Girdle: Thick to extremely thick, faceted
    Culet: None
    Polish: Good
    Symmetry: Good
    VS(2)/SI(1)
    Near colorless (I-J)
    Fluorescence: None
    Est. Value: $7xxx (circa mid-1990s, FYI)

The tools I've tried all say the depth is very high. The diamond doesn't "look" funny, but then again I don't really know what I'm looking for. I would really like to use this diamond due to the family history, but I want to know up-front what its shortcomings are so I can find an appropriate setting.

FYI, the settings I'm interested in are mostly halo/pave, and possibly with a matching wedding band. Example picture attached:

Thanks in advance!

screen_shot_2012-07-26_at_11.png
 
Re: Question about "family" diamond specs relative to settin

Is the diamond certified? If not, you can do two things. You can take it to an appraiser to get it evaluated or you can send it to GIA to have it certified. You can do both.

I am not sure why the specs are important in terms of the setting. Since you will most likely use the stone you have, pick the setting you like best and have the jeweler set it. Make sure to insure the stone first (you'll have to have it appraised in order to insure it).

I think that setting is lovely.
 
Re: Question about "family" diamond specs relative to settin

Thanks for the reply. The information posted was from an IGI report. I do not have any other information on hand at the moment.

I know I'm probably going to go with this diamond, but since I can't get an actual score from the online tools here, I'd just like the blunt opinion from people here on that stone. If I was posting it asking if I should buy it or not, what would the opinion be?

Secondly, are there any characteristics of this diamond that a warrant a specific type of setting? Particularly the thick girdle and large depth. Would it look funny as a solitaire? Would a three-stone setting hide the girdle or depth issues? Is it going to look super dark in the halo setting? etc.
 
Re: Question about "family" diamond specs relative to settin

Can you afford a recut? It's about 350 bucks and totally worth it. You will loose some weight (likely end up at around 80 points) but you will a MUCH better stone in terms of performance AND you won't lose spread (probably still face up at 5.8-5.9mm) so it will actually look BIGGER. And then you can send it to the GIA or AGS and get it certified, which would increase it's value. It will take about 3 months or so total (about 4 weeks for the recut, then the lab grading takes time) but would be the BEST way to use that diamond.

That diamond you have is going to perform like this one here (under very deep) cause it's like WAY over deep and is frankly like an Iceberg:


using_IS_Reference_Chart_72.jpg

If you get rid of the extra weight that is keeping it performing poorly you will see a HUGE improvement in the performance. And it really will look bigger.
 
Re: Question about "family" diamond specs relative to settin

It is modern round? It faces up like a .7 ct stone. There's no way anyone would suggest you buy it if it were new.
 
Re: Question about "family" diamond specs relative to settin

I would comp it at the value for an EGL Diamond at 80 points. SO-- this is the comp. WHY? Because it faces up like an 80 point stone, not a one carat stone and after the recut all you are going to get is 80 points. As for why EGL? It's the best comp for IGI for color and clarity. IGI is not a good lab and GIA or AGS are poor comps to it.

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-3060022-0.80-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-SI1-Clarity.aspx?sku=3060022&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com SO-- this is the comp. $1711

SO -- should you buy it? Only if you have THREE MONTHS for the recut and the re-certification. AND only if you can get it 1,400. AND you can confirm it really is a J color and A GOOD CLEAN SI1 clarity.

That 7k value is nothing but a lie for that stone.

Frankly, I wouldn't spend the time or effort on it, but if there is sentimental value AND you can get it for 1400 and spend 350 on a recut PLUS another 350 for a recut, then MAYBE. But with the color and clarity being in doubt.

BUT: No I wouldn't do it.
WHY? Because it is much easier to BUY a GIA Ex stone at K (and you at least KNOW it's a K, where as an IGI I-J could be an L or M) at 80 points with SI clarity for 2100: http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/K-SI1-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1499862.asp SO there is no reason to go through all the risk of a recut and the time and energy to get it recut, then recertified when all you have to do is BUY a GIA stone.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/K-SI1-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1499862.asp

THE ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM that this stone COULD be worth IF the color and clarity come back as the best possible (which would mean IGI was right for once) is: http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS2-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1480587.asp 2,700.


So:

1400 for the stone
350 for the recut
350 for the lab grading
___________________
2100 + your time and energy

And that diamond isn't going to come back a J VS2 from a reputable lab. So it's likely only WORTH 2100. So-- why put yourself through that when you can just go out an buy a nice GIA stone with GREAT cut from the start.
 
Re: Question about "family" diamond specs relative to settin

Yes, I was about to say that it has the diameter of the .75 ct. studs I had. I wouldn't use it unless I had it recut. I had a poorly cut one carat family diamond and had it recut by Brian Gavin. It started out at 6.4mm and ended up at 6.0mm and .80 cts. It was like night and day. Your diamond has weight in it's depth that does nothing for the beauty of the stone. If they can keep most of your diameter, you'll have a stone that is much better than what you have now if you recut.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/details-on-a-diamond-re-cut.160957/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/details-on-a-diamond-re-cut.160957/[/URL]

Gypsy, he said it is a family stone, so I am assuming he is not buying it.
 
Re: Question about "family" diamond specs relative to settin

Firstly, is this actually a round brilliant? Or is it an OEC or something?

If it's a modern round brilliant, honestly? A one carat diamond should face up around 6.4 to 6.5mm. Yours faces up at about 5.85. That is about the size of a 0.75 carat ideal-cut diamond. It will probably be dark and not sparkle very much. You would get a better result with a new 0.75 carat diamond. Alternately, you could contact Brian Gavin Diamonds and see about having your diamond recut. Several forum members have had very good results. It's reasonably priced, and judging by the specs my totally inexpert opinion is that you probably wouldn't lose much face-up size, if any, and would end up with an ideal cut diamond that is still your family heirloom. You could get your setting from BGD too, as they make high-quality settings and have some like the one you are considering.
 
Re: Question about "family" diamond specs relative to settin

Thanks for the info everyone.

Again, I already have this stone as it's in the family, and it's free to me. I just need to find a setting that works.

I didn't realize recutting was an option. I will definitely look in to that. Assuming I go with a setting like in the first post, would I be able to use the same setting both pre- and post-recut? I'd most likely get that done after it's been "accepted". :naughty:
 
Re: Question about "family" diamond specs relative to settin

Oh. It's free to you?

That's different. Yeah. I'd spend 700 bucks (recut plus recert) to get a 2100 stone. THAT is a good value. Send the stone to Brian Gavin and ask them to get the best performance they can with the least "spread loss" and try to keep it above 80 points if possible.

ETA: Um, I don't know ONE engaged woman who is going to be happy with you sending off her ring for THREE MONTHS after she's finally got it on her finger. I would DEFINITELY do the recut before.
 
Re: Question about "family" diamond specs relative to settin

whitelightning|1343330892|3240688 said:
Thanks for the info everyone.

Again, I already have this stone as it's in the family, and it's free to me. I just need to find a setting that works.

I didn't realize recutting was an option. I will definitely look in to that. Assuming I go with a setting like in the first post, would I be able to use the same setting both pre- and post-recut? I'd most likely get that done after it's been "accepted". :naughty:
Click to expand...

As far as I'm aware, there's really no way to know until it's been recut. I would get it recut FIRST. If you really don't want to for whatever reason, I'd just propose in a temporary setting, like a cheap $300 solitaire or whatever, and then pick out the real setting after it's been recut. I wouldn't spend 4k on a setting only to recut the diamond immediately afterward. I also wouldn't give it with the intent of immediately taking it away. Once you give it to your girl, she's going to want to hold onto it forever, so you should try to make it perfect right out of the gate!
 
Re: Question about "family" diamond specs relative to settin

Gypsy|1343331286|3240695 said:
Oh. It's free to you?

That's different. Yeah. I'd spend 700 bucks (recut plus recert) to get a 2100 stone. THAT is a good value. Send the stone to Brian Gavin and ask them to get the best performance they can with the least "spread loss" and try to keep it above 80 points if possible.
Click to expand...

Thank you... this is good info.
 
Re: Question about "family" diamond specs relative to settin

EXACTLY what Distracts said. :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:
 
Re: Question about "family" diamond specs relative to settin

distracts|1343331305|3240699 said:
whitelightning|1343330892|3240688 said:
Thanks for the info everyone.

Again, I already have this stone as it's in the family, and it's free to me. I just need to find a setting that works.

I didn't realize recutting was an option. I will definitely look in to that. Assuming I go with a setting like in the first post, would I be able to use the same setting both pre- and post-recut? I'd most likely get that done after it's been "accepted". :naughty:
Click to expand...

As far as I'm aware, there's really no way to know until it's been recut. I would get it recut FIRST. If you really don't want to for whatever reason, I'd just propose in a temporary setting, like a cheap $300 solitaire or whatever, and then pick out the real setting after it's been recut. I wouldn't spend 4k on a setting only to recut the diamond immediately afterward. I also wouldn't give it with the intent of immediately taking it away. Once you give it to your girl, she's going to want to hold onto it forever, so you should try to make it perfect right out of the gate!
Click to expand...

Good points. Guess I will have to postpone a bit.
 
Re: Question about "family" diamond specs relative to settin

The good news is, once it comes back from the recut, BGD can make you this setting to your stone's exact dimensions: http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/pave-and-side-stones/halo-engagement-ring-18k-white-gold-5441w18 While they are waiting for the lab report to come back. And then they can have it set and send to you within 48 hours of when the lab is done with it. BGD's settings are top quality to boot, so it's perfect for one stop shopping.
 
Re: Question about "family" diamond specs relative to settin

Awesome, that sounds like a plan. I like the fact that it's custom made, and the prices seem comparable to what I'm finding on other sites recommended through Pricescope.
 
Re: Question about "family" diamond specs relative to settin

They are a great vendor. You can do a search for "BGD" and "custom" on here and see what the results are. Lots of happy customers.

That setting will also be much safer for wearing with a wedding than the one you linked because the pave is only on the top of the ring, not on the sides. That's what you want for a ring you will be wearing with a wedding band.
 
Re: Question about "family" diamond specs relative to settin

You've gotten great advice here!

Gypsy, does he need a lab report if he's keeping it? Should he just get an appraisal after the recut and skip that, since it's a family stone that's likely to stay in the family?
 
Re: Question about "family" diamond specs relative to settin

Don't even give it to her until it's been recut. I wouldn't want to part with it (if if it was a wonky stone and in a temp setting). Send to BGD for recut and set in that LOVELY halo setting and then propose. It will be awesome!! BGD should be able to facilitate the certification for you too I think :)
 
Re: Question about "family" diamond specs relative to settin

GIA and AGS stones cost more than uncerted stones for good reason, they testify to quality and are reliable for comparison purposes for replacement in the event of lost or damage. For insurance purposes it's best to have a GIA or AGS report. If something happens and it is stolen or damaged, it will be a much simpler process to get a good quality stone if your original has great paperwork and a lab certificate. That way if you have a GIA K SI1 Ex//Ex then you know that what they give you as a replacement should also have a GIA K SI Ex/Ex report. If you don't have a certificate they can replace it with an uncertified stone, technically, even with a good appraisal because most policies are "like kind'" replacements. It's just a much safer way to go. You never know what life throws at you. 350 now can save a headache later. BGD will send it in for him and get it back for him. All he has to do is send the stone in, and get a ring back. All it takes on his part is payment and time.
 
Re: Question about "family" diamond specs relative to settin

Brian did not see any purpose in sending my stone for a lab report and I am completely happy with that decision. Since it was a family stone, I had no intention of ever selling it, and that is the main reason to have the grading done. You won't want AGS unless the stone was going to make triple ideal, and Brian will not guarantee that on a recut. He makes the stone as good as possible while not losing too much size. GIA has a long wait time to get the stone back, so I'd just skip it altogether if it was mine. Once he knows the diameter that the stone will be, they can start making the setting and set it as soon as it returns from the cutting factory. Then you won't have any additional delay in getting the ring. You'll need an appraisal after the stone is set (will Brian provide that? I didn't ask him but did it locally) for insurance.
 
Re: Question about "family" diamond specs relative to settin

Gypsy|1343339530|3240831 said:
All it takes on his part is payment and time.
Click to expand...

You make it sound so easy! :lol:
 
Re: Question about "family" diamond specs relative to settin

DS I understand your decision not to get it cerfified, but yours is in a pendant right? Not in a stone you wear everyday on your hand? I just think the chances or loss or damage are greater on Engagement rings. I don't have any certification on my pendant stones at all, and really don't see a need for it for them (of course they are all old cuts, granted), but for an engagement stone I think I'd feel differently.

But I do agree that I would only send it to AGS if it comes back a 0 or a 1. And he'll know that and be able to tell you that before you send it off.
 
Re: Question about "family" diamond specs relative to settin

Yes, it is in a pendant. But a good appraisal will accomplish the same thing for non-H&A stones, I believe. I would feel differently if we were talking about a very valuable stone, of course.
 
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