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"Quenching"?

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Eternal

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
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19
Hello all,
I recently posted a thread here:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/help-how-can-a-diamonds-color-change.131380/

and I dont mean to be redundant, but I wanted to start a new thread to see if anyone had heard of "Quenching" here.
I took a diamond ring to the jewelers to be repaired and redipped and my white diamond came back grey.
It''s the same stone, same inclusions and has been thoroughly steamed and cleaned, but it is now much darker and grey in color.
A gemologist suggested that the stone must have been "quenched" ie: the jeweler heated it up too much, and then put it in a cold liquid solution without waiting for it to cool and thus burned and sealed the burn, altering the diamonds color permanently.
I am wondering if anyone has ever seen or heard of this because I never did before and neither did my jeweler and we are both understandably upset about it.
I also am wondering if there is any possible way this process might be reversed.
A long shot but never hurts to ask questions.
thanks for listening, please let me know if you know anything.
Best wishes,
~Eternal
7.gif
 
Quenching is a problem to watch out for on most colored stones because it can cause tons of tiny fractures that result in a stone with a clarity looking like a sugar cube but diamonds don’t suffer this problem. It’s possible to burn the surface of a diamond with enough heat but this is usually called ‘smoking’ the stone and it can be polished off with a bit of work and the right tools. I gather from your other thread that this gemologist is who caused the supposed damage and has proposed a solution that involves buying a new stone from him. Get it inspected by an independent appraiser. I smell a rat.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
The colour of the diamond is never altered by being burned..they just kind of turn frosty with an orange-peel sort of texture. Quenching is a very, very unlikely cause of the problem.
I might suggest that the rhodium plating has darkened the surfaces behind the stone and that it is affecting the body colour of the diamond. These areas of the ring are impossible to polish and clean properly when the diamond is blocking access and it''s fairly common for the metal to darken or even turn blackish. I had a series of correspondences with a jeweller in Australia who was mystefied about the blackening...he thought the rhodium had plated onto the stones and wanted to know how to get it off. (He is also a gemologist...??)After I wrestled him away from his incorrect theories he admitted that it was entirely possible that his polishing crew wasn''t removing all of the polishing compounds from behind the stones and that the rhodium plating was being affected by the presence of such compounds. It turned out to be the case. Problem solved. The service people have to be thorough with procedures or these kinds of head-scratching annoyances present themselves, to confounding everyone and causing a great deal of frustration.
 
Gentlemen,
Thank you both so much for your responses.
If I understand you both correctly, then despite the fact that from every angle, this stone (still set in the ring)still appears to have actually changed color and become darker, and that I can see no dirty spots, it has been steamed, and there is no clouding, and nothing visibly "Scorched" on the surface of the polish, despite all this, you are still saying that the stone can not have actually changed color internally, through and through, despite what the gemologist said? I am just trying to make sure I thoroughly understand what you each are saying.
And, if this is the case, then in some way, this problem can be resolved, and I can have back my beautiful little white stone?
Please oh please tell me how to do this...
The gemologist is not the jeweler. I called a gemologist because my jeweler and I were both stumped as to how the stone could have become so dark.
The jeweler, although convinced that his worker has done nothing wrong, (the one who did the actual work) has offered to seek out a replacement stone for me at my request. But that is not what I want. I just want this pretty little diamond to look as it did before this happened, and although I know whatever happened was an accident, I can not afford to replace the stone at my own expense, and do not think I should have to since clearly it was certainly not my fault that this occurred. I am quite emotional over this as silly as it may seem to some. I am a little surprised at how very upsetting this is.
Any further input you may be able to offer will of course be greatly appreciated.
I think I can attach some files now...
I will make separate responses here for BEFORE and AFTER for clarity.
The before shots are not all that great unfortunately, and the after shots were taken in different lighting but I think you will be able to see the difference nonetheless.
Thank you once again.
Best wishes,
~Eternal
 
BEFORE PICTURE

1029091550crop.jpg
 
Another BEFORE Picture

1029091549crop.jpg
 
FIRST AFTER SHOT

fingergoodshot1210091004crop.jpg
 
very dark after shot, the ring does look nicer than this, but you can clearly see that a white stone like the stone above, would not photograph like this even in low light.

AFTER1210090959crop.jpg
 
I have other pictures, just not sure which ones are best to share. I think you should have an idea now.
As I said, the stone still sparkles, but not like it did, and it looks like I took my glasses to my optician and told him to turn them into sunglasses. The lenses would still be "clear" but dark grey.
If you still think this is some kind of coating or something that can be fixed, oh I would be so ecstatic to know that! I just dont know if my jeweler is good enough to do it
7.gif

thank you again in advance.

afterfinger1209091525acrop.jpg
 
Your chosen gemologist has seen the stone and the mounting, I have not. My theory is still with the cleaning but he’s your chosen expert, not me and if he's convinced that all cleaning questions have been resolved then I'll defer to him. The most aggressive cleaning method is to take the stone out and immerse it in acid by the way. It's not a difficult job and I would sure try that before replacing the stone. Nothing you have described so far about what has happened would change the body color of a diamond.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
Hi again Neil,
Thank you again for your response, hope, is a wonderful thing.
The gemologist did not actually see the stone. This all happened just the day before yesterday.
I called the GIA and the International Gemological Association (I think that''s what it was) and another gentleman who advertised that he repairs chipped and damaged stones, and a couple of other places and no one had even heard of what I was talking about.
My jewelor steamed the ring, but I don''t think he did anything else. We can not "see" any "Gunk" though.
The gemologist said based on what I told him about the stone, that it sounded like it had been quenched, and said it could not be fixed.
I would love it if he were wrong...
What should I do???
Thanks again,
~Eternal
 
Find another jeweler and ask them to dismount the diamond and give it an acid bath. make sure they are an expert in these things. If that doesn''t fix it them have it sent unmounted to an independent appraiser to see what is going on!
 
The acid bath method ONLY applies to unmounted diamonds. You can seriously damage a mounting and this should only be done by a professional or you can seriously damage yourself as well. Acid is to be taken seriously and treated with care.

SOMEONE who knows what they’re doing needs to actually look at the stone to get a straight answer. This is probably an easy job but it can’t be done over the internet or telephone. Pick an expert that you’re inclined to trust, take it in or ship it to them and get a professional answer.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
I saw the jeweler today.
He is going to dismount the stone, and give it an acid bath.
We both hope that will resolve this problem.
Worst case, he said he will find me a replacement stone.
I am so hoping that I can just have my little heart shape back as it was.
I know it was never a perfect diamond, but it was bright and sparkly and just exactly what I wanted.
I was wondering though, I know that the pictures are not the best, but were you able to see what I was talking about?
I mean, it just looks like the difference between clear glass and tinted glass to me.
I have never seen anything like it.
Still open to any comments anyone has...
will post the final results when I have them, probably on Saturday.
thank you all once again.
 
Good luck. :)
 
The only times that I''ve seen something like this in a diamond was when they were heated, (re-tipped), and they weren''t cleaned thoroughly beforehand. The oils in the junk around the prongs crept out onto the surface of the stone and was basically "cooked" onto the stone giving it a brownish gray tone. I know this sounds kind of harsh, but that one got fixed with a good long soak in oven cleaner, which is a very basic solution...mostly lye. It worked well and got the stone back to it''s white color. These sorts of coatings, or even internal defects having burned junk in them, are pretty easy to see under a microscope, so I''m surprised that the problem it isn''t obvious to your jeweler. I hope that the acid bath works for you !
 
I''m pretty sure that once the diamond has been removed that the jeweller will find that (organics) have been burned onto the underside of the diamond and that they remain as a crust that needs to be taken off using abrasion, incineration, or acid if necessary. Normally, enough heat is generated during retipping that all organics are turned to ash but sometimes they form an impenetrable deposit that must be completely burned off with a second go with the torch, or extended pickling with mild acids, or both. This is why the pros always clean jewellery thoroughly prior to engaging in any work involving heat, as an incomplete burn will result in a layer of cooked-on, stubborn ash in the hard-to-reach areas. Rhodium plate over that and you have reduced your diamond to Q colour.
Your diamond is fine, it just lhas a layer of crud under it. Too bad the jeweller is removing it, the problem could probably be remedied without taking the stone out of the setting. A second burn with the proper protection will likely remove the offensive material. The ring will then need to be plated again...(sigh) which would be totally unnecessary if the original manufacturers had used better (slightly more expensive) alloys.
 
 
Thank you all for giving me hope.
I will post the final results tomorrow.
I tried to post some other stuff but it wont post.
I have no idea why, perhaps because I put a url in it?
anyway, I just wanted to share a thread from another forum where a woman said her diamond had turned yellow and her jeweler kept trying to clean it and could not get the yellow out. The people on the forum said it had to do with iron in her well water. I have never before any of this imagined one could have trouble with stuff dying or sticking to a diamond.
I can''t wait to have my shiny little white diamond back... I really hope it doesn''t have to be replaced.
Thanks again,
~Eternal
 
Keep my fingers crossed for you that it works! Let us know...
 
This is very interesting to me... Please keep us informed as to what happens! It''s good to know, just in case it ever happens to me!
 
Date: 12/10/2009 10:24:39 AM
Author: TheDoctor
The colour of the diamond is never altered by being burned..they just kind of turn frosty with an orange-peel sort of texture. Quenching is a very, very unlikely cause of the problem.
I might suggest that the rhodium plating has darkened the surfaces behind the stone and that it is affecting the body colour of the diamond. These areas of the ring are impossible to polish and clean properly when the diamond is blocking access and it''s fairly common for the metal to darken or even turn blackish. I had a series of correspondences with a jeweller in Australia who was mystefied about the blackening...he thought the rhodium had plated onto the stones and wanted to know how to get it off. (He is also a gemologist...??)After I wrestled him away from his incorrect theories he admitted that it was entirely possible that his polishing crew wasn''t removing all of the polishing compounds from behind the stones and that the rhodium plating was being affected by the presence of such compounds. It turned out to be the case. Problem solved. The service people have to be thorough with procedures or these kinds of head-scratching annoyances present themselves, to confounding everyone and causing a great deal of frustration.
Click to expand...
Doctor,

Welcome aboard, and thank you for beating me to the punch on this suggestion. It may or may not be the solution, but it is a better place to start than with a repolish of the gem, at least unitl it is determined that it is the gem that has been discolored in some way.

I look forward to seeing more of your posts.

Wink
 
I just want to be sure I understand what you''ve said here.
I am of course hoping that I will go to the jewelers tomorrow to find my beautiful little white heart all white again after a nice acid bath or whatever else he does to fix it. However, if it still appears dark, you are still saying that it is more likely that a repolish might resolve the issue because the body of the stone should not have been altered and that if something has been altered, it should still be on the surface, which a repolish would fix correct?
If that were the case, where does one go to repolish a diamond, and how much does something like that cost???
Thank you again for your input.
~Eternal
 
Date: 12/11/2009 5:20:29 PM
Author: Eternal
I just want to be sure I understand what you''ve said here.
I am of course hoping that I will go to the jewelers tomorrow to find my beautiful little white heart all white again after a nice acid bath or whatever else he does to fix it. However, if it still appears dark, you are still saying that it is more likely that a repolish might resolve the issue because the body of the stone should not have been altered and that if something has been altered, it should still be on the surface, which a repolish would fix correct?
If that were the case, where does one go to repolish a diamond, and how much does something like that cost???
Thank you again for your input.
~Eternal
Click to expand...
That is indeed correct. I believe that there are some cutters here on the boards that are located in the United States. As a vendor I am not supposed to recommend or condem any of the other vendors, but I am sure that someone will extend for you a name.

The cutting fee will be expressed in $ per carat with a one carat minimum, so the price will depend on the size of your diamond.

Wink
 
I would sooner let the jeweler replace this stone than have it recut, it is a small stone to begin with. I thought you were saying a repolish might work, which is not the same as recutting correct?
This stone is .35 ct heart shape. The cut on it was actually quite nice for a heart shape, so many I have seen are asymetrical or too long or too fat, this one really has a nice heart shape as you can see in the pictures I think.
Also, I don''t know a lot about the specific numbers, particularly for the cut on a heart shape, but this one had a lot of very prismatic fire, which is what is most important to me. When white, it would catch the light and throw off little rainbows which is what I think a nice diamond should do.
I just hope I get back the stone tomorrow as it was when I brought it in, that''s all I need to be contented.
Thanks again,
~Eternal
 
Final results:
Relieved!!!
Ok, all is well again.
The Jeweler took the stone out of the ring, gave it an acid bath, cleaned the setting and redipped it, then reset the stone. He showed me the unset stone when I got there and I could see right away that it was right again.
I feel a little silly but the truth is that I looked and looked and looked with a 10x loupe, and a 50x loupe and was unable to see any "gunk" or even blackening on the back of the setting, or stone, etc. Everything looked ok except that the stone looked dark.
I don''t really understand the play of light in this case, how it made the stone look like it had darkened, but it''s back to it''s original white now so my blood pressure is back down to where it should be.
I thank you all for all your input, and your advice, and for giving me hope when I was sure that my little heart was ruined.
Amazing how much a tiny little sparkly thing can mean to us, make us feel, etc.
thanks again.
~Eternal
 
Congrats. :)
 
Date: 12/11/2009 6:14:20 PM
Author: Eternal
I would sooner let the jeweler replace this stone than have it recut, it is a small stone to begin with. I thought you were saying a repolish might work, which is not the same as recutting correct?
This stone is .35 ct heart shape. The cut on it was actually quite nice for a heart shape, so many I have seen are asymetrical or too long or too fat, this one really has a nice heart shape as you can see in the pictures I think.
Also, I don''t know a lot about the specific numbers, particularly for the cut on a heart shape, but this one had a lot of very prismatic fire, which is what is most important to me. When white, it would catch the light and throw off little rainbows which is what I think a nice diamond should do.
I just hope I get back the stone tomorrow as it was when I brought it in, that''s all I need to be contented.
Thanks again,
~Eternal
Click to expand...
Congratulations. Sorry for speaking diamond trade language. In my mind a repolish and a recut are pretty much the same thing, although a real diamond cutter could probably tell me if I am out to lunch or not. I am so glad you do not need it!

Wink
 
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