Purchasing estate jewellery vs loose stones and then setting

[syd]

Hello, I'm new to the CS forum although have been around in the diamond and pearl forums over the past few years. I'm starting to get interested in acquiring some pieces of CS jewellery. I'm talking about heirloom quality jewellery that I will eventually pass on to my girls... and pieces that I receive to mark significant events e.g. milestone anniversaries.

I've started researching about criteria in picking CS, but still have a lot to read. One of my initial questions: what is "better" purchasing pre-loved jewels from estate vendors or building your own piece by picking a stone and having it set? Based on initial browsing around, the prices seem much better for pre-loved jewels. I've looked at the main vendor sites recommended by members of pricescope... Please tell me about your experiences?! What are the pitfalls, things to look out for?

Thanks in advance!

 

[pregcurious]

Re: Purchasing estate jewellery vs loose stones and then set

I find it very difficult to find a CS with the characterics I want, in a setting I like, at a reasonable price. I find that most CS estate jewely in my area holds poor color/cut CSs, or carries prices that assume no or minimal treatment.

In the absence of a good return policy, there may be some financial risk if you pay assuming that you are getting X (e.g. natural, untreated), but it ends up being Y (synthetic or highly treated) which is less valuable. Otherwise, I think this is good way of purchasing stones. Many of the frequented CS vendors do not sell calibrated stones, therefore a custom setting is usually required, which costs $$$.

For all valuable stones, I would sent them to AGL to get a GemBrief to determine what they are. AGL will accept mounted stones, unlike GIA which requires that one to unmount diamonds. (Interestingly, GIA does not require that you unmount colored stones, based on my visit to the NY lab this summer.)

 

[T L]

Re: Purchasing estate jewellery vs loose stones and then set

Hello, I'm new to the CS forum although have been around in the diamond and pearl forums over the past few years. I'm starting to get interested in acquiring some pieces of CS jewellery. I'm talking about heirloom quality jewellery that I will eventually pass on to my girls... and pieces that I receive to mark significant events e.g. milestone anniversaries.

I've started researching about criteria in picking CS, but still have a lot to read. One of my initial questions: what is "better" purchasing pre-loved jewels from estate vendors or building your own piece by picking a stone and having it set? Based on initial browsing around, the prices seem much better for pre-loved jewels. I've looked at the main vendor sites recommended by members of pricescope... Please tell me about your experiences?! What are the pitfalls, things to look out for?

Thanks in advance!

I think it depends on how much you educate yourself. There are a preferred list of vendors that stand behind their loose gems, and you can get some very nice stones, with no or minimal treatment. I often find that estate jewelry is often sold "as is" and you don't know much about the treatment of the gem in question, unless perhaps its a diamond.

That being said, I do like vintage rings, and metal/diamonds are pretty straightforward in pricing. To me, an optimal purchase would be to get a gem on my own, and find a beautiful vintage setting for it.

 

[syd]

Re: Purchasing estate jewellery vs loose stones and then set

Thanks for the replies! So I guess the main issue is that with estate jewellery the level of treatments are unknown? Would these not be captured by getting an AGL report though?

 

[marymm]

Re: Purchasing estate jewellery vs loose stones and then set

Thanks for the replies! So I guess the main issue is that with estate jewellery the level of treatments are unknown? Would these not be captured by getting an AGL report though?

I can't recall offhand if AGL has a "rush" option - but if it does, it is expensive. Otherwise, getting an AGL report can take several weeks and if you want more than just a GemBrief, it may take a bit longer -- thus your purchase would have to be conditioned on the AGL report confirming the vendor's representations, and the return period left open for the time required for the AGL to issue the report - and all of this in writing. Depending on where you find the estate jewelry and the vendor's confidence as to its represented treatment, etc., this process is not impossible, but it is definitely not the norm.

 

[chrono]

Re: Purchasing estate jewellery vs loose stones and then set

Not only unknown treatment but often, the colour/shape/design (colour and cut isn't up to my expectation or is more expensive than what I can purchase separately) isn't what I am looking for. If going this route, make sure the vendor agrees to send the item to GIA/AGL (not having you mail it) and the sale is contingent upon the lab result. In doing so, you don't have to worry about being outside the return period and the vendor bears the risk of any damage or loss in transit.

 

[syd]

Re: Purchasing estate jewellery vs loose stones and then set

Assuming the vendor agrees to a conditional sale and to send the piece to AGL for testing... how much would that add to the cost of purchase? Would you not need to get the AGL certificate on any loose stones you purchase as well or are there vendors that already have the certificate prior to listing the stone?

 

[marymm]

Re: Purchasing estate jewellery vs loose stones and then set

Assuming the vendor agrees to a conditional sale and to send the piece to AGL for testing... how much would that add to the cost of purchase? Would you not need to get the AGL certificate on any loose stones you purchase as well or are there vendors that already have the certificate prior to listing the stone?

The extra cost is usually the actual cost of the selected AGL report and related shipping/insurance costs (borne both ways by the vendor or the purchaser, not by AGL). If you look on the AGL website, the costs vary depending on gemstone type and carat weight, and report type. Generally, the extra cost is attributed to the purchaser if the vendor's representations are confirmed, and borne by the vendor if his representations are not supported by the AGL report.

If you are talking heirloom-quality loose gemstones, such as sapphires/rubies/emeralds, many vendors who sell the highest quality of these stones do already have AGL reports on them, or, if newly acquired/obtained on your behalf, are extremely amenable to obtaining such reports. AGL reports are less common with other gemstones such as Spinels, Garnets, Tourmalines, etc., but of course can be requested if not already provided.

 

[chrono]

Re: Purchasing estate jewellery vs loose stones and then set

It would depend on the size of the stone and quantity of stones.
http://aglgemlab.com/pricelist

Some stones already come with a lab memo, and some are generally not treated or has few simulants/synthetics so a report is unncessary if purchased from a long used / trusted / vetter Pricescope vendors.

 

[distracts]

Re: Purchasing estate jewellery vs loose stones and then set

For colored stones, I prefer purchasing the stone separately so I can know treatment, origin, and pick the one that most appeals to me. Even hundred year old pieces used synthetics and treatments. I buy a lot of diamond or plain metal jewelry that is pre-owned but not colored stones unless a) the price is good enough so that it doesn't matter the treatment of the stone, and b) I like its looks enough so that I don't care the treatment of the stone. The time it would take to get a thorough report (especially for corundum if it needs to be tested for diffusion) is outside the return period usually, and as well probably doesn't matter to most estate vendors since they rarely if ever make claims as to the treatment of the stone (unless it's higher end, in which case it will already have gone to a lab and I will be paying through the nose).

For things like garnets and spinels, both of which I quite like, they're just plain not often found in estate jewelry (well, the green garnets aren't often, anyway!).

I would buy (and have bought) tourmalines and tanzanites in estate jewelry. They're not really PS-quality, if you know what I mean, but they're fun.

 

[syd]

Re: Purchasing estate jewellery vs loose stones and then set

Thank you for the replies!

So what I'm taking away from this thread is that to stay away from more expensive coloured gems, sapphires, rubies, emeralds from estate sales. However diamonds and metals are fine… what about pearls, opals? Just out of curiosity, why would buying diamonds from estate sales be acceptable?

 

[chrono]

Re: Purchasing estate jewellery vs loose stones and then set

I would avoid heavily treated gem types such as sapphires, rubies and emeralds. Tourmaline, garnet, quartz, spinel and such are generally untreated or very lightly treated, hence are safe to purchase. When shopping for pearls, keep an eye out whether they are synthetics, coated or dyed. For opals, check whether they are full, doublets or triplets (backing), whether they are dyed, or cooked in some other fashion. When it comes to diamonds, they are much easier to verify whether they are real or clarity enhanced compared to coloured stones.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: Purchasing estate jewellery vs loose stones and then set

Thank you for the replies!

So what I'm taking away from this thread is that to stay away from more expensive coloured gems, sapphires, rubies, emeralds from estate sales. However diamonds and metals are fine… what about pearls, opals? Just out of curiosity, why would buying diamonds from estate sales be acceptable?

I wouldn't go quite this far, but agree with everything the other posters have pointed out. As long as you are aware of all the pitfalls and go into it with eyes open, you can find some beautiful stones/antique pieces. Some reputable estate jewelry sellers will work with you and allow for a contingency with the sale. Pitfalls include things such as the setting hiding significant flaws in the stone; stones that are not original to the piece but have been switched some time over the piece's life; high quality synthetics common in high quality settings of certain eras. If you were seriously interested in a piece with corundum or emerald, I would at the very least line up an appraiser who specializes in colored stones. So yeah, you definitely need to be careful.

 

[slksapphire]

Re: Purchasing estate jewellery vs loose stones and then set

i agree with mb. when you mention "estate jewelry", that covers a huge spectrum from individuals to small, local dealers to highly reputable jewelry stores in major cities and everything in between. the biggest risk of buying CS estate jewelry, in my opinion, is the lack of knowledge of treatments from many (though not all). for example, on 1stdibs.com, some of the more expensive CS jewelry comes with AGL reports.

so, i would only purchase CS estate jewelry IF (1) there is an unconditional return policy, (2) it comes with a reputable report OR (3) the dealer is willing to obtain a certificate. i would be willing to pay for that report plus shipping if the stone met pre-agreed specs. e.g., the seller says the stone is untreated and origin "x". the seller would pick up the cost if the report comes back as anything else. in any case, after i received the jewelry, if i didn't like it for any reason, i would want the ability to return it (less certificate and shipping costs).

for what it's worth, a good friend bought a vintage philippe patek watch, decided she didn't like it and was able to return it for a full refund from 1stdibs. so it really can work! good luck