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Purchase Pending. Clarity HELP!!! Plzzz

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pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
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Feb 22, 2003
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Internet searching got my head spinning so I am dealing with my local B&M, trusted jeweler on a .81 ct, uncertified diamond. She pulled out GIA master diamonds in front of me and WE determined the color to be G.

There are 3 black carbon spots near the edge (between table and girdle) in one confined area of the diamond. Not surface inclusions. They are imbedded. Not eye visible. Visible with 10X if you know where to look upon 1st viewing. Closer examination will find them. Due to this, the jeweler has rated it as SI2, to be conservative.

No hard measurement numbers available, but cut is firey and brilliant. Asking $2400. Any thoughts from anyone?
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
--------------
She pulled out GIA master diamonds in front of me and WE determined the color to be G.

There are 3 black carbon spots near the edge (between table and girdle) in one confined area of the
diamond. Not surface inclusions. They are imbedded. Not eye visible. Visible with 10X if you know
where to look upon 1st viewing. Closer examination will find them. Due to this, the jeweler has
rated it as SI2, to be conservative.

No hard measurement numbers available, but cut is firey and brilliant. Asking $2400. Any thoughts
from anyone?
--------------

If the grading is correct, and if the diamond is an AGA Cut Class 3A or better, then the price seems reasonable.

From your description of the visibility of the inclusions, it sounds like an SI stone, but I'd be sure to get a second opinion. If it happens to be an I1 (the next grade down), then it's not such a good deal.

Is the jeweler a gemologist? Many jewelers are good graders, but many do not understand the nuances of color and clarity grading.

As far as the "hard measurements" are concerned, if I were going to invest $2400, I would find out what the following specs are on the diamond. It's not that difficult to find out. If the store can't do it, ask them if you can get them from an independent gemologist appraiser. (If you make the purchase contingent upon the diamond appraising out to your satisfaction, then you can't lose.) This is a reasonable request, which most sellers will go along with.

Color & Clarity (second opinion)
Fluorescence
Measurements
Depth %
Table %
Crown height (and angle if possible)
Pavilion depth (and angle if possible)
Girdle thickness
Polish
Symmetry

Once you know these characteristics it takes the guess work out of whether it's a good stone for a good price.
 

niceice

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
1,792
Frankly, you could buy a zero ideal cut diamond of that quality with grading by the AGS or GIA laboratory for right around the same price... If the diamond is interesting to you, why don't you ask the dealer to send it to the AGS or GIA laboratory for grading? The AGS lab has a 3 - 5 day turnaround time right now and at least then you'll know exactly what you're buying, the clarity, the color, the fluorescence, the proportions, polish, symmetry, etc. and whether the diamond has been treated in any way.
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
Thanks much for the informative comments.

She's a jeweler, not a gemologist, with all the usual B&M perks.

She had just got the diamonds in. "We" did color grading together. We had out several diamonds of roughly the same size. Set them upside down against the GIA masters. I settled on 2 to decide between. The one I mentioned is visibly whiter, with more brilliance and fire,... under the store lighting and outdoors as well.

I got frazzled with the internet search and decided I would rather see what I was getting in person than rely on the reports. I didn't want to absorb shipping fees for stone after stone after stone returning ones that didn't suit my taste.
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
If the stone looks that nice to you, then buy it! It could be the right one! Remember that you're buying a diamond and not a fancy piece of paper!!!!
BTW, is your jeweler able to get a Sarin report? It could help you a lot...
Also, be sure to get the stone appraised by an indipendent gemologist...
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
Thanks so much, Giangi!

I got started on the internet to learn and hopefully find a better deal. Then I ran into too much information. I am not shopping for my dream diamond to make a perfect engagement ring. I want a nice solitaire pendant set in white gold. Most pendants I've seen in jewelry stores look like dead fish. No life. No luster. No fire and sparkle.

This is a small town jewelry store handed down from generation to generation. Our jeweler has always provided us with superior quality at a lower price as compared to what I have found at the Mall/Chain Jewelry stores. When she knows I am looking for something, she watches and calls me when she get's something especially good. My daughters and I constantly get compliments from other jewelers and gemologists on the quality of our gemstones.

I kinda feel like the soon to graduate college student on information overload. I still haven't totally given up on the idea of a certed stone. The Nice Ice comment got me to looking again.

 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
My advice is buy what makes you happy! That's it! If you feel you're buying a beautiful stone (it sounds so from your description), then it's ok!
If you don't trust your jeweler's grades 100%, I suggest you to send it to Dave Atlas... He's a well reknown gemologist and he will give you a professional advice on the stone in question...
BTW, SI 2 is great for pendants!
Let us know what you decide!
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
I took my hubby to view the diamonds today. And he picked the same one I did. I found out today my jeweler is a GIA Graduate Gemologist. She deals in certed stones at 1 ct. and above. She buys premium cuts below the 1 ct weight. She doesn't advertise her credentials or the certs because the bulk of her customers are "regular folk". It's a small town shop and her customers come to her because she provides them quality, not Mall garbage and hype, at a fair price. In fact she does appraisals for a well known, high end aution house in our area that deals in upper level jewels/jewelry, art, and other collectibles. She does not do appraisals through her store due to conflict of interest.

Checked hard numbers. No Sarin report, but I got physical measurements and flourescence reports. Only "negative" is depth at 63.7%. I searched certed diamonds on the net through a couple multi dealer search engines and found several with very similar measurements, including depth, all priced in the same range as the one here. Almost all have VG to Exc symmetery. Several complete certificates were available on-line showing far more crystals or needles and some with comments of clouds.

My last concern was the black carbon inclusions. I have noted several other posts here where people have diamonds with black carbon and they didn't seem to mind. Many people considered them identifying markers. Still luv the sparkle!
 

LesleyH

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 28, 2000
Messages
506
pqcollectibles:

I think it is great that you have admitted that you prefer working with a local B & M store, and that you need to see the diamonds. Every now and then we have a customer who has the same needs and we encourage them to go local. You can usually get much better pricing on the internet but you have to firstly deal with a knowledgeable and reputable company and you have to trust your vendor to be your eyes.

We are dealing with a customer who really should have gone local and looked at all the diamonds in a row . She probably wouldn't have done as well on quality and price but she would have saved herself a lot of hassle and saved us alot of manhours. We are about to send her out her third diamond - I feel badly for her because I am conviced this won't be the end of it and she just keep racking up return shipping costs.

LesleyH
www.whiteflash.com
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Excellent advice, Lesley!

BTW, 63.7% depth is a bit high, but it's beautiful when compared with mall's diamonds, which have 70%++++ depths...

Is the girdle thick???
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
THANK YOU, Lesley! for your words of comfort. I can see myself in your customer's shoes.

I went to other jewelers in the "big" city near where I live that deal in certed diamonds. I looked at more than a few. 5 or 6 at this store, 3 or 4 at that store. None of the certed diamonds had the zip this one does and the other jewelers were asking more $$$. Then my sister told me about an online diamond broker (not a Price Scope Vendor) that ships to an approved jeweler in your area. You can see the diamond before you decide to buy. She did that, saved hundreds over what the Mall store was charging, and got a much nicer diamond. That's what got me started on the net. But the company she used doesn't have what I want in my price range.

I am into flash and color reflected from the diamond. I know from all the reading I've done, that is tied to the quality of cut. This diamond has both flash and color bouncing all over the place.

 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
Giangi ~

I don't know a hard measurement on the girdle. All I have to go on is visual observation.

This one as compared to the other loose ones she had out and side by side with the other one I had narrowed my choice down to. The diamond I picked has a thinner girdle than the rest. But I would guess (stress GUESS) it is not thin. Most probably medium to the thick side of medium.

I am still stuck thinking about the black carbon or other gem crystals buried at the bottom of the diamond near the cutlet. I didn't notice them on first look upside down. But the next time, they really jumped out at me. And, before anyone asks, the cutlet is pointed. LOL

 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Lol! In this case, if the girdle is something like a 'medium to thick', then the cut is ok, as it explains the slightly high depth...
As per the inclusions... Remember that you'll set the stone in a pendants and no one will look at the stone so closely that he/she could find the inclusions... After all, remember that you're paying a good price because of them!
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
Hey Giangi and all!

Update on the pending purchase. I didn't buy that diamond. The information I had crammed into my head started to fall into place. Between family illness and running kids, I have surfed the comparisons some more. I saw that I could indeed buy a much better quality cut diamond, certed with the same color and clarity rating for the same or less money from any vendor listed here. Plus too, I've called a couple and found that they will screen for me to weed out black carbon inclusions.

Now all I gotta do is settle on a vendor and work from there!

Thanks, one and all for your very valued assistance in keeping me from making a huge mistake!
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Hey Pq,

Well, I'm sure you'll find a beautiful H&A diamond somewhere which blows out that SI 2...

Let us know if you find an interesting stone... Good luck
 
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