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Purchase bad cut diamond for purpose of recutting = cheaper or bad idea?

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SpareMyWallet

SpareMyWallet

Shiny_Rock
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Jan 5, 2010
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I have about 10-12K bankwire/cash for the center stone alone. H&A AGS000 G/VS2 or better 1.4-1.5ct preferred. This seems to be a difficult task to find something in that range. Usually I find only H colors.


My question is, is it cheaper for find a poor cut diamond and have it recut by BGD? I am in Houston.


Could someone give me some guidelines to look for a diamond so that after recut, it would be down to 1.4-1.5ct range?



If it is recut, do I get a new certificate and AGS report?
Is it considered a new diamond with a different serial number?
Would it be considered a BGD Signature H&A ?
 
It’s rarely a good idea to buy a diamond with the hope of recutting it to improve things but there’s definitely an industry in buying damaged goods from the public, repairing them and selling them on to a new owner. It’s a complicated transaction and not for the faint of heart.

If BGD cuts it, it will become a BGD diamond, no matter where the original material came from. Whether or not he’ll call it a H&A and attach his branding to it will be up to him and will, in part, have to do with how the cutting job comes out.

Yes, you will need to get new lab paperwork on it and it will be assigned a new number.

I recommend against this plan. In the end it’s unlikely you’ll save money. If you want a BGD H&A, talk to BGD about buying one that’s already been cut. Someone else is taking all the risks. Since you're local to Brian, give him a call. He's a pretty personable fellow and I'm sure he'll have some advice on how best to get one of his stones.


Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
Thank you for your reply. I would imagine it would be hecktic going the recut route.

By the way, is my budget reasonable for the specifications I requested (1.4-1.5 G/VS2+) from WF or BGD?

As of right now, nothing in my budget, and they do not have much 1.4 inventory, not even a 1.38, so it is hard to gauge.
 
Are you willing to take the risk with a recut? I don''t think cutters insure stones they recut.
 
I am sorry to say but I don't think your budget is realistic for what you are looking for. I suggest you drop in clarity to an eye clean SI, color to a H.

I just checked and BGD may have some options for you..
AGS-1040381680016 Brian Gavin H&A 1.53 G SI1 57.5 61.3 $12,366.00
AGS-1040381680019 Brian Gavin H&A 1.528 H VS2 56.4 61.2 $12,435.00
AGS-1040381680023 Brian Gavin H&A 1.333 F VS1 55.5 61.5 $12,566.00
 
Date: 1/10/2010 1:51:57 PM
Author: SpareMyWallet
Thank you for your reply. I would imagine it would be hecktic going the recut route.


By the way, is my budget reasonable for the specifications I requested (1.4-1.5 G/VS2+) from WF or BGD?


As of right now, nothing in my budget, and they do not have much 1.4 inventory, not even a 1.38, so it is hard to gauge.
Click to expand...
Both companies are quite transparent both in terms of what they have and what they’re charging for it and no, I don’t think your budget is sufficient to get what you want give those specs. Be prepared to flex on least one of weight, clarity, color or price.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
Date: 1/10/2010 1:51:57 PM
Author: SpareMyWallet
I would imagine it would be hecktic going the recut route.
Click to expand...
Hectic isn’t really the problem, the problem is in estimating the results that you can expect and weighing the risks that you’ll get something different from that (possibly a LOT different) vs. the savings you hope to gain by putting up with the time, risk and work of it. There is money on the table here, it's just not as much as you think and it's not one to go after if you're not an expert yourself (It's usually not worth it even if you ARE).

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
Date: 1/10/2010 2:22:53 PM
Author: CharmyPoo
I am sorry to say but I don''t think your budget is realistic for what you are looking for. I suggest you drop in clarity to an eye clean SI, color to a H.

I just checked and BGD may have some options for you..
AGS-1040381680016 Brian Gavin H&A 1.53 G SI1 57.5 61.3 $12,366.00
AGS-1040381680019 Brian Gavin H&A 1.528 H VS2 56.4 61.2 $12,435.00
AGS-1040381680023 Brian Gavin H&A 1.333 F VS1 55.5 61.5 $12,566.00
Click to expand...

The 1.528 H VS2 seems reasonable, I would try for 12000 though.
The 1.333 seems too expensive per carat for what it is. That is if the Pricescope H&A AGSO search in-house option in apples to apples, from what i''ve seen on WF, GoG, JA

PS Users, all else equal (if possible), would you rather drop a color grade, or clarity grade?
 
That H VVS1 isn't cheap per say. It's the going rate (so to speak) for a stone with those specs. If you were looking at an non-ideal with the same color/clarity/weight combo, it would be a few grand cheaper.
 
Date: 1/10/2010 5:28:09 PM
Author: SpareMyWallet

PS Users, all else equal (if possible), would you rather drop a color grade, or clarity grade?
Click to expand...
For me, I rather save a little longer and not drop anything :P

Ok .. seriously ... I would guess most people will tell you that an SI1 or eye clean SI2 is totally acceptable.
 
I would not try to have a bad diamond re-cut. With your budget I would get a slightly smaller diamond or go down to G SI1 or even H SI1. What about this one?


AGS-1040381680016 Brian Gavin H&A 1.530 G SI1 57.5 61.3 7.37 7.40 4.53 $12,366.00

Just noticed that someone else recommended this one as well:-)
 
Ditto - not a good plan.


You''re taking all sorts of risks. #1 - the diamond is not eligible for recut at all
#2 - the stone can be recut only at great weight loss, which reduces its value below what you originally paid (there are price differences for poorly cut vs. well cut stones, but they''re not as drastic as they are for the other Cs).
#3 - you''re not able to get insurance for the recut process and the stone is damaged

This doesn''t factor in the time, effort, worry, and expenses spent in choosing the right stone (a cutter''s opinion is certainly needed here), hipping it to be recut, getting it back safe and sound, shipping it to be regraded and waiting, getting it back safe and sound, shipping it out to be set...
 
Ok, based off the experienced PS users, a recut out of the question.



Back to this however, I''m having a hard time understanding the price on these two diamonds.


AGS-1040381680023 Brian Gavin H&A 1.333 F VS1 $12,566.00
AGS-1040373960010 Whiteflash ACA 1.326 H VVS1 $10,547.78

The size increase seems negligible. The F diamond is $2000 more than H diamond, yet the clarity is 2 notches down from VVS1 --> VS1.

I figured it would have balanced out give or take a few hundred dollars. Will this always be the case? Or should I be patient and wait for WF/BGD inventory to come in.
 
Date: 1/10/2010 7:09:28 PM
Author: SpareMyWallet
Ok, based off the experienced PS users, a recut out of the question.
Back to this however, I'm having a hard time understanding the price on these two diamonds.

AGS-1040381680023 Brian Gavin H&A 1.333 F VS1 $12,566.00
AGS-1040373960010 Whiteflash ACA 1.326 H VVS1 $10,547.78

The size increase seems negligible. The F diamond is $2000 more than H diamond, yet the clarity is 2 notches down from VVS1 --> VS1.
I figured it would have balanced out give or take a few hundred dollars. Will this always be the case? Or should I be patient and wait for WF/BGD inventory to come in.
Click to expand...
Big difference between an F and an H. That's two grades. If you find something that's well priced, put it on hold. When it comes to a well-cut stone you can go lower in color and clarity and still have a beautiful diamond.

I do believe BGD is due to get some new inventory in. You could ask them to be on the lookout for your specs as soon as it comes in.
 
Bad idea on the recutting unless you can buy the stone and take it directly to Brain for an evaluation, or take him shopping with you (that's a joke). From what I understand, recutting is more difficult than cutting from rough.

If you want a BGD diamond, just call them. Really, give them your specs and your timeline and your budget (assuming all of the preceding are reasonable). It's that easy. I wanted studs from them and that's what I did.

As for your desires. Since you are local I would ask for an appointment to see Brian and ask him to educate you on colors and clarities and then decide what you want to buy on your own. I would be surprised if you did not conceed to get an H or even an I color and Si1 clarity diamond to eek out size.
 
Date: 1/10/2010 7:50:32 PM
Author: swingirl

Big difference between an F and an H. That''s two grades. If you find something that''s well priced, put it on hold. When it comes to a well-cut stone you can go lower in color and clarity and still have a beautiful diamond.

I do believe BGD is due to get some new inventory in. You could ask them to be on the lookout for your specs as soon as it comes in.
Click to expand...

But VS1 to VVS1 is also two grades..

Here, let me show you
Brian Gavin H&A 1.333 F VS1 $12,566.00 if the F was downgraded to an H, meaning now the diamond is a H VS1, would it be cheaper than the H VVS1(cheaper than $10,547)? It would have to be right? becuse a VS1 is less rare than a VVS1. I find it strange that an F color surpasses the value of VVS1, and would add 2-3grand more.

Whiteflash ACA 1.326 H VVS1 $10,547.78
 
I am no expert so I can''t answer your question. But you are comparing 2 vendors. I would expect each vendor sets their formula for cost and no 2 are going to come up with the exact same price structure.
 
Think of it this way. Color of the stone is almost fixed, clarity can be changed by different placement/cutting of the stone so which is more difficult to achieve?
 
In case that you are still wondering about re-cutting a self-chosen average cut-quality-stone, the posters on this thread who advised against it have given you great advice.

In the past, I have seen weight-losses average around 10 to 15%, with regularly losses of 25% in weight. The cases in which one can be better off financially are very rare.

Also, from the cutter''s (re-cutter''s in this case) point-of-view, what is the point of putting all his expertise and effort into a re-cut that brings him very limited profit and which most probably will disappoint the customer because of the reduced final weight? This often is a lose/lose-situation.

Live long,
 
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