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Purchase advice/review

Matt3773

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 2, 2018
Messages
6
Hi All,

I'm hoping for some help in reviewing the diamond I recently purchased online in terms of specs and value for what I paid. I did a decent amount of research, but am second guessing myself. I should receive the ring in two weeks and can return it if anyone thinks I could have done better.

My budget is 35-40k. I paid 37 for this:

2.14 carat E, IF
Cut, polish, symmetry: excellent
Faint fluorescence
Table: 56%
Depth: 61.9%
Crown: 35.5%
Pavillion: 40.6%

HCA 1.7, if I recall.

One of my concerns is if the crown angle is too high for an optimal cut. Second thought is if I should have just gone with D color and no fluorescence, which I think I'd have to dip under 2 into the 1.8 carat range to stay in budget. I'm more or less winging it as I haven't discussed with the GF. Let me know if any other details would be helpful.

Appreciate your time and suggestions,

Matt
 

jp201845

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
298
Hi All,

I'm hoping for some help in reviewing the diamond I recently purchased online in terms of specs and value for what I paid. I did a decent amount of research, but am second guessing myself. I should receive the ring in two weeks and can return it if anyone thinks I could have done better.

My budget is 35-40k. I paid 37 for this:

2.14 carat E, IF
Cut, polish, symmetry: excellent
Faint fluorescence
Table: 56%
Depth: 61.9%
Crown: 35.5%
Pavillion: 40.6%

HCA 1.7, if I recall.

One of my concerns is if the crown angle is too high for an optimal cut. Second thought is if I should have just gone with D color and no fluorescence, which I think I'd have to dip under 2 into the 1.8 carat range to stay in budget. I'm more or less winging it as I haven't discussed with the GF. Let me know if any other details would be helpful.

Appreciate your time and suggestions,

Matt
35.5 Crown Angle pairs well with a 40.6 Pavillion Angle. You probably can't tell the difference between an E and D color side by side. Faint fluor shouldn't be an issue. Idealscope and Aset images will reveal how well the diamond is cut. With these proportions you will get lots of fire
I'm no expert just my 2 cents.
 

lovedogs

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
9,950
I just ran the specs in the HCA calculator and it's 1.3, meaning it's in the under 2 (e.g. acceptable HCA) range. However, that's not everything that goes into deciding on a stone, especially one which is so expensive. Did you get an ASET or IS image or is it a WF ACA or HPD CBI or other "super ideal"? If so, then that guarantees excellent light performance by default.

EDIT. In my view, IF stones aren't worth the extreme mark up, since people can't see the inclusions in VS1 or higher stones anyway (and most people can't see inclusions in VS2s either). But that's just me, and there might be cultural reasons you wanted an E/IF stone.

I feel similarly about D/E stones, and would personally prefer F/G to get more size. But that doesn't mean you made a bad choice--it's just a matter of balancing preferences and desires.
 

Matilda

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2018
Messages
467
Is there a particular reason why you want IF? Are you tied to it for any reason even emotionally or psychologically?
I agree with @lovedogs including about the colour.


Has your fiancé specified that she wants D OR E colour and IF? Does she prefer those grades over a larger stone for instance? What are her preferences?
 

Matt3773

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 2, 2018
Messages
6
Thanks for the replies. The images were pulled from the sites after it sold, but I do have this video if you can tell anything definitive from it:
http://agft01.s3.amazonaws.com/pics/VIDEOS/1134841.html

I think my main concern is if, based on the specs, I did something that made no sense at all considering it's a large investment. I don't think I'd want to go much higher in carats by dropping the clarity because her finger is on the thinner side. Bought a 6.5 to be safe, but expecting to resize to the 4.5-5 range. I was never planning on even getting a IF until I found this one on a price comparison site and was only a little more than a VVS2 E I was looking at (all other stats the same), which is why I'm trying to figure if there's something wrong with the IF E I bought or if the VVS2 was just overpriced. But once I realized IF fit in my budget, don't want to go lower.

I wasn't familiar with all those super ideal cuts when I purchased. No ASET or IS images. Will check to see if they have any on file tomorrow. Maybe they can create one for me since they still have the diamond? I was going to order one of the idealscopes and take a look when ring arrives, but even if I can figure out how to use it, I'm guessing the ring would interfere with the reading.

If super ideal is just very specific ranges of preference (ie balance between fire and brightness/brilliance) between excellent cuts and there is nothing inherently wrong with getting 35.5/40.6, then I'm fine with that. Yes, it's GIA tripple X.

Thanks again,

Matt
 

Matt3773

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 2, 2018
Messages
6
Is there a particular reason why you want IF? Are you tied to it for any reason even emotionally or psychologically?
I agree with @lovedogs including about the colour.


Has your fiancé specified that she wants D OR E colour and IF? Does she prefer those grades over a larger stone for instance? What are her preferences?


I haven't proposed or discussed with her. She'd probably be happy with a half carat. At this point it's purely psychological on my part. After I saw some inclusions on zoomed pictures of VVS2/1, it will just bother me into perpetuity. And since I think the size is big enough, don't need to reallocate color/clarity into carats, is my reasoning. Just don't want it to look dull because of cut or find out I overpaid for it's specs. After the proposal, I'll give her the option to return and change specs, but if anything, she'll be a little uncomfortable at cost and want a less exepensive one, so will have to think through that potential.

Matt
 

lovedogs

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
9,950
Thanks for the replies. The images were pulled from the sites after it sold, but I do have this video if you can tell anything definitive from it:
http://agft01.s3.amazonaws.com/pics/VIDEOS/1134841.html

I think my main concern is if, based on the specs, I did something that made no sense at all considering it's a large investment. I don't think I'd want to go much higher in carats by dropping the clarity because her finger is on the thinner side. Bought a 6.5 to be safe, but expecting to resize to the 4.5-5 range. I was never planning on even getting a IF until I found this one on a price comparison site and was only a little more than a VVS2 E I was looking at (all other stats the same), which is why I'm trying to figure if there's something wrong with the IF E I bought or if the VVS2 was just overpriced. But once I realized IF fit in my budget, don't want to go lower.

I wasn't familiar with all those super ideal cuts when I purchased. No ASET or IS images. Will check to see if they have any on file tomorrow. Maybe they can create one for me since they still have the diamond? I was going to order one of the idealscopes and take a look when ring arrives, but even if I can figure out how to use it, I'm guessing the ring would interfere with the reading.

If super ideal is just very specific ranges of preference (ie balance between fire and brightness/brilliance) between excellent cuts and there is nothing inherently wrong with getting 35.5/40.6, then I'm fine with that. Yes, it's GIA tripple X.

Thanks again,

Matt
There's nothing inherently wrong with the specs--the 35.5 is a little higher than I'd recommend (we recommend 34-35), but the combo with 40.6 is good. However, we really don't know performance unless you have ASET/IS images.

If I knew my DH had spent such a large amount of money on a non-super ideal diamond, I would feel like he overspent. But I'm not your future fiance, so I can't speak for her. Are you sure she'd be ok with such a large stone if she would have been ok with a .5ct? I think that's why we often recommend that people talk to their significant others about these decisions. If she would be happy with a 1ct stone, or even 1.5, then you maybe could have saved there as well.

There's nothing inherently wrong with your purchase, but I (personally) feel that you likely paid more than necessary with the high color and clarity, but that's a personal decision.

If I were you and had your budget (and wanted high color), I would be looking at super-ideal stones (like CBI/WF/BDG). There are high colored (D/E) stones with VS2 and above clarity at those vendors within your budget.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
4,441
I'm on my mobile so I can't efficiently do as much research as I'd like. To confirm you paid a fair price, do a search at RareCarat and adjust the filters for E, IF, faint or none flour and 2-2.24 carats for size. This will give you live inventory and search across several vendors. You could also include crown, pavilion and girdle criteria but IMO will restrict your search too narrowly. I am hopeful the above will yield at least a couple of results but it too is restrictive.

Also on PS there is historical data price charts broken down by price per carat for size range, color and clarity.

To accurately answer if the 35.5 crown is too high or not is difficult based on the available data, which is the cert only. The best answer any of us can give you is maybe it works but you need to confirm by analyzing an ASET or idealscope image to confirm light performance and then H&A images to confirm symmetry.

Remember the values reported for crown and pavilion is an average of all the actual values meaning individuals could be slightly more or less than 35.5 for instance. In addition to averaging GIA also rounds the values which makes it more difficult to know with certainty how just proportions will determine actual performance.

I would say you are pushing the realm of ideal territory and the images I mentioned earlier will either confirm or deny how well (or poorly) cut the stone is. I've seen XXX stones with more idealistic proportions come back with leakage in the middle of the stone for one reason or another which essentially creates a dead spot in the stone and one with less fire.

My own personal opinion is for that kind of money I'd prefer a super ideal stone that has all images, a true H&A stone and I know has an ideal cut than a maybe. For me, a killer cut is going to wow me, my girl and every person we come in contact with 1000x over.

But I also wouldn't be chasing an IF stone. I'd rather have a D/E color stone that is a very clean VS2+ and/or pocket the extra cash for other life expenses. The reality is the majority of people can't see inclusions on a good SI1 stone and a very, very select few with a good VS2 stone. You are chasing a level of clarity so high that it can only be appreciated under a high powered scope or by bragging about the certification. Size and ideal cut is something each of you and friends, family and even strangers will see and appreciate and comment upon.

Many would say the same about color as well but I've learned there are more people that can visually appreciate higher color even though the differences are extremely negligible for most.
 

Matilda

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2018
Messages
467
I think if there is a return period it would be a good idea to see it in person and decide whether you like the performance or not. However it seems IF is very important to you so perhaps if the performance isn’t the very best then that’s a sacrifice for the IF. Different consumers have different priorities and that’s okay. I would think though that the stone will perform very well in any case, even if not the best of the best in terms of performance.

Your fiancé could also see if she okay with the size...it’s possible after a couple of days of wearing it she will NOT find it too big. If she has never worn a diamond solitaire then the abstract of the “right “ size will be different to her reality.
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,062
I think it looks nice from the video, and the HCA score indicates the crown and pavilion angles are complementary. ASETscope image (if available) will confirm how accurate the cutting is, and if there are any areas of leakage.

If IF is important to you, that is fine - as long as you are aware that you are paying a premium for it! (Also that IF is only graded under 10x magnification, so it's possible/likely that it does still have inclusions within the stone that would be visible under stronger magnification.) VVS would 99.999% definitely be eye-clean unless staring at it with a loupe - the zoomed in videos on the internet do magnify inclusions to a degree that is unrealistic of 'real life' perspectives.

If you are happy to post your budget we could suggest some options you might like to consider, which might be useful if your intended ultimately wishes to go bigger / lower in colour/clarity? :)
 

Kaycee2018

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 14, 2018
Messages
454
FWIW, my e-ring upgrade has very similar cut specs except my table is 57% and my CA is 36%, giving it an HCA of 1.8, and it performs beautifully and I am beyond thrilled with it. I get compliments on my diamond all the time...even completely unprompted from a couple reputable local jewelers where I've taken it to be cleaned. That said, as others have stated, if you are willing to go down in color, clarity or size a bit you could save some money and/or go with a branded super ideal. But I don't think there is anything "inherently wrong" with a 35.5/40.6 combo and even PSers agree that combo is complimentary, though just out of "super ideal" range. Keep in mind you are on a forum that heavily favors branded super ideals, but there are plenty people who cannot tell much, if any, difference between a super ideal vs. a nearly super ideal (myself included) or who don't want to pay the premium for branded super ideals. I think you should give the diamond you ordered a chance. GL! And please post pics!
 

jbake

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 30, 2018
Messages
380
I can’t comment on the specifics of your stone, but I have some thoughts on the other part.
When looking for a diamond for myself, I’m fine with G/SI. But to be honest, I would love the E/IF from my fiancé, even knowing it’s “overkill.” My husband did actually go a step beyond what I told him I would like when proposing to me, F/VS. Knowing I could have a slightly bigger stone if he’d lowered those parameters, doesn’t lessen my enjoyment of the stone he picked for me.
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,062
D'oh, I just re-read your first post and you included your budget in it!

Assuming 40k USD top whack, these could be some potential 'SuperIdeal' options to consider alongside your current stone?

2.11ct E VS2
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD8065

2.15ct G VS1
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9796

2.158ct F VVS2
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4022262.htm

2.07ct F VS1 (super-clean under the table as all the inclusions are under the star facets)
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4049811.htm

2.055ct E VS1
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4006547.htm


You could even get to 3.04ct G SI1 in a non-SuperIdeal stone from WF, but it's a bit leaky under the table because it's not quite as good cut-wise:
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4059900.htm


All that said, though, you have high colour, high clarity, good angles... I think your current stone will likely look very good to even trained eyes. An ASETscope image would provide proof, but if you are happy with its performance, I don't think you have anything to worry about :)


EDIT:

Using PS-recommended parameters in the search tool at the top of the forum, it looks like there are around 40 GIA XXX stones that could potentially fall under/around your budget and meet or come very close to your ideal parameters, in case you want to look at other options:

https://www.pricescope.com/diamonds/search?vendor=-1&branded=None&inhouse=-1&shape=1&minprice=1&maxprice=42000&mincarat=2&maxcarat=5&mindepth=60&maxdepth=62.3&mintable=53&maxtable=58&mincut=1&maxcut=1&mincolor=1&maxcolor=2&minclarity=2&maxclarity=6&minsymmetry=1&maxsymmetry=3&minpolish=1&maxpolish=3&min_cut_gia=1&max_cut_gia=6&min_cut_ags=1&max_cut_ags=7&minflourescence=1&maxflourescence=6&checkbox_panel1=,03&checkbox_panel2=&sort=&page=1&pageview=24&adv=true&days=100&cert_number=
 
Last edited:

Matt3773

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 2, 2018
Messages
6
D'oh, I just re-read your first post and you included your budget in it!

Assuming 40k USD top whack, these could be some potential 'SuperIdeal' options to consider alongside your current stone?

2.11ct E VS2
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD8065

2.15ct G VS1
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9796

2.158ct F VVS2
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4022262.htm

2.07ct F VS1 (super-clean under the table as all the inclusions are under the star facets)
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4049811.htm

2.055ct E VS1
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4006547.htm


You could even get to 3.04ct G SI1 in a non-SuperIdeal stone from WF, but it's a bit leaky under the table because it's not quite as good cut-wise:
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4059900.htm


All that said, though, you have high colour, high clarity, good angles... I think your current stone will likely look very good to even trained eyes. An ASETscope image would provide proof, but if you are happy with its performance, I don't think you have anything to worry about :)


EDIT:

Using PS-recommended parameters in the search tool at the top of the forum, it looks like there are around 40 GIA XXX stones that could potentially fall under/around your budget and meet or come very close to your ideal parameters, in case you want to look at other options:

https://www.pricescope.com/diamonds/search?vendor=-1&branded=None&inhouse=-1&shape=1&minprice=1&maxprice=42000&mincarat=2&maxcarat=5&mindepth=60&maxdepth=62.3&mintable=53&maxtable=58&mincut=1&maxcut=1&mincolor=1&maxcolor=2&minclarity=2&maxclarity=6&minsymmetry=1&maxsymmetry=3&minpolish=1&maxpolish=3&min_cut_gia=1&max_cut_gia=6&min_cut_ags=1&max_cut_ags=7&minflourescence=1&maxflourescence=6&checkbox_panel1=,03&checkbox_panel2=&sort=&page=1&pageview=24&adv=true&days=100&cert_number=

Thanks everyone for the detailed responses. I have to admit, I'm initially surprised how many notches lower in clarity and/or color I have to go to obtain one of the recommended super ideal diamonds at the same price. Even though I'm learning the importance of cut, I underweighted the value placed on differentiating the average excellent/ideal from the top tier of those ratings, and I overweighted color and clarity. I'm guessing color/clarity differences aren't perceived as noticeable as the ideal cuts (even though personally I know I'll see any inclusions the second I close my eyes).

That being said, I'm still wondering how much of a difference in light performance we're talking here. IE is an ideal 95% as brilliant as a super ideal, etc. Of course depends on specific stones, but I guess my point is it'd take a huge disappointment in performance when I open the box up to return it for lower clarity/color with better cut. I feel comfortable after reviewing the links you provided that I at least received good value for my money on the specs I purchased.

I was able to obtain images of hearts and arrows and ASET images of (hopefully) my diamond. The hearts and arrows appear solid but some slight misalignment, in my novice judgement. The ASET, I have no idea. I don't see any comparables online with the same shading scheme and am initially concerned with the lack of bright reds. Hopefully it's not terrible... I've attached the images and would really appreciate any and all feedback.

Thanks,

Matt

aset.png arrow.png heart.png
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
4,441
Why do the pictures look like they are cartoons, or computer generated?

Here is another stone that just came up on the forum with a similar ASET image to yours as comparison to how it looks real vs the one your posted. Generally speaking that light pink ring around the stone isn't what you want to see. You want it to be dark red.

As you get directly on top of (or over) that diamond, I think it's going to look dark. Sometimes you get that ring from over saturation of the light source but I can't tell much because of the way your picture looks manipulated, but I suspect there will be some leakage.


 

Matt3773

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 2, 2018
Messages
6
The images look like cartoons? Well that ain't good... That's what they sent when I requested them. I'll have to see if I can track down a super ideal near me at a store to see in person, but at this point just going to see what the ring looks like when delivered first.
 

LLJsmom

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
9,242
You need to be able to compare your diamond with a super ideal. CBI can ship to you to see it. I don’t know how else to see a super ideal but to go visit in Person.
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,062
The images look like cartoons? Well that ain't good... That's what they sent when I requested them. I'll have to see if I can track down a super ideal near me at a store to see in person, but at this point just going to see what the ring looks like when delivered first.
There are two different ways to create the images, I think - computer-generated and 'real life' photos.

I'm not sure I completely understand how the first are made :lol: but it is not unusual to see them, so do not be worried by them.


If you have enough credit or cash in the bank, you could take advantage of the excellent Returns policies that the PS-recommended vendors have and buy a 'SuperIdeal' to compare with side-by-side. (Do check Returns processes and any associated costs before any purchase, though.)
 

LLJsmom

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
9,242
Whiteflash's return window is 30 days for in stock diamonds.

BGD has 15 days.

Victor Canera has 21 days.

HPD can ship a CBI to you for you to see, which to me is the same as a return policy.

GOG has a return policy as well for its ascendancy diamonds.

You should read and confirm at the website all the return windows.

Some people are convinced about super ideals without too much hand wringing and hand holding. There is a lot of technical information on this forum about super ideals and for people that love the numbers and analysis, the information makes sense and is sufficient to convince them that the extra money is worth it. Of course the amount of "extra" can vary depending on the vendor. CBI seems to be on the higher side, and WF on the more affordable side.

There are also some that research, and ask many questions, and discussions and debate go on forever, and still are not convinced. However they seem to want to be convinced. IMO, for those people, seeing AND COMPARING with other non super ideals is the ONLY way to go. In the end, you're the one that needs to have peace with what you are spending. No amount of testimonials or technical details or anything else will get you there. So if you really want it, and are still not sure, suck it up and just order one. There is a return policy so there is no downside. See for yourself. Good luck.
 

Matt3773

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 2, 2018
Messages
6
Not enough time to deal with ordering another one before proposal since need to focus on the proposal at this point (plus enough of my net worth is already invested in carbon at this point...now if only she had a thing for Bitcoin and we got married 10 years ago, but anyway), but looks like some of the super ideal retailers are within reasonable driving distance. After the proposal, and assuming the current diamond isn't so brilliant that it burns our retinas out, I'll take a trip there with her and we'll make the call after looking at them side by side. Now wouldn't it be funny if she said no =)2

Will let you know on outcome / provide pics.
 

Matilda

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2018
Messages
467
GOOOOOD LUCK!! I am certain you don't need it..she will of course say YES!!!


I am sure she will be thrilled with the diamond also.
 
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