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Pull the trigger? 1.24 ct, I, VS2, 1.3 HCA, EGL cert

F

FND3rd

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
16
I am about to pull the trigger on the ring below, which I found at what seems to be an almost too good to be true price. The certificate is EGL so I was little hesitant at first but the ring registered a 1.3 on the HCA.

Should I be worried that the clarity is worse than advertised? Is there some other flaw with the shape or cut that I am missing? I appreciate any advice you can offer!

29379.jpg
 
EGL International can be VERY VERY VERY off in its grading. You could be getting an L-M, SI2-I1 for all you know.

I would have an expert look at the stone and provide you with an honest analysis before you pull the trigger.
 
Have you read up on EGL here on PS?
 
Dreamer,

I have and understand the issues. At the advertised price, this ring would still be a good deal at GIA SI2. As for the color, a major deviation would be upsetting, but as this will be set on a yellow gold ring and has a slight blue flourescence, I think I can overlook a slip down to J.

I plan to have the stone appraised immediately upon receipt, and will return during the 30-day return period if the deviations are significant.

Aside from the concerns with EGL International, is there anything on the face of this certificate that would indicate this ring is not a fair deal at $4500/ct?
 
FND3rd|1334631922|3173030 said:
Dreamer,

I have and understand the issues. At the advertised price, this ring would still be a good deal at GIA SI2. As for the color, a major deviation would be upsetting, but as this will be set on a yellow gold ring and has a slight blue flourescence, I think I can overlook a slip down to J.

I plan to have the stone appraised immediately upon receipt, and will return during the 30-day return period if the deviations are significant.

Aside from the concerns with EGL International, is there anything on the face of this certificate that would indicate this ring is not a fair deal at $4500/ct?
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there are no good deals with EGL. the diamond is priced according to its true grade.
 
I think I can overlook a slip down to J.
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Be prepared for a slip down far past J. Ask the vender for an honest assesment of the color.
 
As slg says, the diamond is priced based on its characteristics. If it costs $6000, then its "true grade" per GIA is likely whatever GIA stone you can buy for the same money at the same weight.
 
why not get a GIA I/J SI1/SI2 for the same price?
 
I still might. This stone is ~$3800, though. I am looking at $5000+ for GIA I/J SI2. I think I have to decide for myself whether I can live with a slightly yellower color.
 
If its an SI2, you'd have to go all the way down to L color to find something comparably priced.

I am thinking that stone is either an L/SI2 or a K/I1

Would you consider getting something that is a little bit smaller?
 
FND3rd|1334638922|3173058 said:
I still might. This stone is ~$3800, though. I am looking at $5000+ for GIA I/J SI2. I think I have to decide for myself whether I can live with a slightly yellower color.
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Did you understand our point above? If the stone is *that* inexpensive, I promise you it is lower than a J color. As 06 said, it is likely an L colro Si1 or some other combination. The point: You are NOT saving money buying an EGL stone. You just *think* you are.
 
FND3rd|1334638922|3173058 said:
I still might. This stone is ~$3800, though. I am looking at $5000+ for GIA I/J SI2. I think I have to decide for myself whether I can live with a slightly yellower color.
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you said earlier it was $4500/ct...that does not work out to $3800...

ETA if it is $3800 that is the price of a GIA K SI2.
 
this is not a H&A stone.
 
For that price you won't get a nice stone of the size stated on the report. I would go for an online vendor listed here and see what size you can get in a J color Si1.
 
As the others have said, you get what you pay for, generally. That stone is likely K-L-M color. You aren't getting a good deal, you are just getting a low color and clarity stone.
 
Allow me to inject a brief reality check.

Your basic assumption here is that EGLI grading represents a ‘value’ when compared to stones with different pedigrees. That is to say, that you can game the system by choosing stones graded by EGLI and get a similar stone for a lower price because of this and that this is this is the reason you are considering relying on their grading. The further presumption is that you can ‘discount’ their grades in order to compare them sight unseen to stones graded by other labs and thereby find a bargain. Is all of this correct?

I think the above is false.

#1. Diamonds do not come out of the ground or off the cutting wheel with a lab branding. The lab was CHOSEN, and it was not chosen randomly. This selection was almost certainly made by an expert who had the stone in hand and who makes this decision many times a day. The objective of this choice was to maximize their own sales in terms of either price or speed (or both) and they can and do send stones to every lab in the world. Everybody makes mistakes but again, the objective of choosing the lab they chose was to get maximum sales, not to pass along discounts of thousands of dollars. If a particular stone will be expected to bring more with a different brand, that’s where it’ll go.

#2. After the cutter chose the lab it has been traded through at least and importer and possibly others. At every step the person holding the stone has the opportunity to re-brand the stone somewhere else. It’s entirely possible that a particular stone has been examined by 2 or 3 different labs and then sold with the paperwork that produces the highest prices. As with the above, this is being done by experts who have the stone in hand when they make the choice and who make a significant portion of their living making decisions exactly like this.

#3. Here’s GIA’s fee structure:
http://www.gia.edu/lab-reports-services/fees_payment/lab_fees/Lab-Fee-Schedule-Diamond-US.pdf
EGLI and EGL-USA are both cheaper and faster but they’re not free. The difference is in the dozens of dollars up to a few hundred tops on really big stones. Lab fees are NOT the issue.
EVERYONE in the industry is aware of this. The labs are highly competitive with one another, they are thrilled to do business with anyone who wants to work with them, and most dealers work with several depending on the situation.

Game the system if you like and it is occasionally possible to win but be aware that these are the other players. If there’s money on the table, this is who left it there. You’re trying to decide blind based on nothing but a report from a lab that you’ve already determined to be unreliable and on asking prices from online databases for merchandise that you know next to nothing about. This is something that no pro would ever do, not because they don’t have access to the data but because it doesn’t work very well. They’re deciding based on their own physical inspection of the stone, their own experience with the various labs, and their own experience in the marketplace. You are working at a significant disadvantage. Even a blind squirrel occasionally gets a nut but the deal is stacked against you in a big way and the vast majority of shoppers do not ‘win’ this game.
 
denverappraiser|1334669957|3173206 said:
Allow me to inject a brief reality check.

Your basic assumption here is that EGLI grading represents a ‘value’ when compared to stones with different pedigrees. That is to say, that you can game the system by choosing stones graded by EGLI and get a similar stone for a lower price because of this and that this is this is the reason you are considering relying on their grading. The further presumption is that you can ‘discount’ their grades in order to compare them sight unseen to stones graded by other labs and thereby find a bargain. Is all of this correct?

I think the above is false.

#1. Diamonds do not come out of the ground or off the cutting wheel with a lab branding. The lab was CHOSEN, and it was not chosen randomly. This selection was almost certainly made by an expert who had the stone in hand and who makes this decision many times a day. The objective of this choice was to maximize their own sales in terms of either price or speed (or both) and they can and do send stones to every lab in the world. Everybody makes mistakes but again, the objective of choosing the lab they chose was to get maximum sales, not to pass along discounts of thousands of dollars. If a particular stone will be expected to bring more with a different brand, that’s where it’ll go.

#2. After the cutter chose the lab it has been traded through at least and importer and possibly others. At every step the person holding the stone has the opportunity to re-brand the stone somewhere else. It’s entirely possible that a particular stone has been examined by 2 or 3 different labs and then sold with the paperwork that produces the highest prices. As with the above, this is being done by experts who have the stone in hand when they make the choice and who make a significant portion of their living making decisions exactly like this.

#3. Here’s GIA’s fee structure:
http://www.gia.edu/lab-reports-services/fees_payment/lab_fees/Lab-Fee-Schedule-Diamond-US.pdf
EGLI and EGL-USA are both cheaper and faster but they’re not free. The difference is in the dozens of dollars up to a few hundred tops on really big stones. Lab fees are NOT the issue.
EVERYONE in the industry is aware of this. The labs are highly competitive with one another, they are thrilled to do business with anyone who wants to work with them, and most dealers work with several depending on the situation.

Game the system if you like and it is occasionally possible to win but be aware that these are the other players. If there’s money on the table, this is who left it there. You’re trying to decide blind based on nothing but a report from a lab that you’ve already determined to be unreliable and on asking prices from online databases for merchandise that you know next to nothing about. This is something that no pro would ever do, not because they don’t have access to the data but because it doesn’t work very well. They’re deciding based on their own physical inspection of the stone, their own experience with the various labs, and their own experience in the marketplace. You are working at a significant disadvantage. Even a blind squirrel occasionally gets a nut but the deal is stacked against you in a big way and the vast majority of shoppers do not ‘win’ this game.
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Very well said! I'm always surprised at the number of people who post that they are aware of the grading differences between labs, but yet ask for advice anyway, thinking that perhaps the forum will have a different opinion of the stone and report that they chose.
 
I don't get why people come on here to get advice and then still decide to do what they originally plan on doing despite expert opinions. Then why ask? :?
 
denverappraiser|1334669957|3173206 said:
Allow me to inject a brief reality check.

Game the system if you like and it is occasionally possible to win but be aware that these are the other players. If there’s money on the table, this is who left it there. You’re trying to decide blind based on nothing but a report from a lab that you’ve already determined to be unreliable and on asking prices from online databases for merchandise that you know next to nothing about. This is something that no pro would ever do, not because they don’t have access to the data but because it doesn’t work very well. They’re deciding based on their own physical inspection of the stone, their own experience with the various labs, and their own experience in the marketplace. You are working at a significant disadvantage. Even a blind squirrel occasionally gets a nut but the deal is stacked against you in a big way and the vast majority of shoppers do not ‘win’ this game.
Click to expand...


hoping to hit the lottery... ;))
 
Dancing Fire|1334642956|3173074 said:
this is not a H&A stone.
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Do explain...

diamondseeker2006|1334668012|3173193 said:
As the others have said, you get what you pay for, generally. That stone is likely K-L-M color. You aren't getting a good deal, you are just getting a low color and clarity stone.
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Is it not possible that I could get both?

Christina...|1334685649|3173366 said:
I'm always surprised at the number of people who post that they are aware of the grading differences between labs, but yet ask for advice anyway, thinking that perhaps the forum will have a different opinion of the stone and report that they chose.
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[/quote]

You should reread my original post. I was asking those forum members with more expertise than I have whether there was anything on the face of the certificate, aside from the EGL International source, that should cause me concern. I was and am well aware that the color and clarity will almost certainly be lower on a GIA scale than what is reported on the certificate, and was not asking for advice on that point.

OCgirl|1334686365|3173379 said:
I don't get why people come on here to get advice and then still decide to do what they originally plan on doing despite expert opinions. Then why ask? :?
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I don't get how you reached the conclusion that I already made the purchase. However, generally people seek advice so they can enter into a decision fully informed. Generally, I prefer to be aware of all possible risks when I make an important decision. With that said, ultimately, I am the one who will be making the decision regarding which rock I purchase, and while this forum's opinion is appreciated, I do not require the permission of this forum or you to make any purchase. I apologize if this upsets you.
 
FND3rd|1334784860|3174551 said:
Dancing Fire|1334642956|3173074 said:
this is not a H&A stone.
Click to expand...

Do explain...
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look at the pic next to the fire trace.. ;)) that is NOT a H&A stone.
 
FND3rd to answer this question you posed: Is it not possible that I could get both? Maybe, but what I think everyone is saying here is that it's not likely in this case. denverappraiser's post thoroughly explained why this stone was probably graded by EGL- International and why it's available at such a low price point. Re-read his post, apply what he said to the facts of your situation, and then decide whether you still feel confident about purchasing the diamond you are considering.
 
Following up on the earlier post. Some photos of the stone are attached. I am working on getting Imagescope/ASET scope images. Is there anything from the photos (aside from the yellowish tint) that should be a huge warning sign to me? I can see what I believe is a feather in the bottom left portion of the table in one of the photos, but otherwise looks clean.Rock1.jpgP1290051.jpgP1290050.jpg
 
Thanks farmer gal. I will poke around some more. Curious, though, did you see anything in the pictures (aside from the color) to give you concern? I am okay with the color and am more worried about fire/light return (which these photos don't do much to show) and visible inclusions.

Am I really going to find a better stone for $3700 - $3800 elsewhere?
 
You are still missing the point about how pricing works for diamonds, I think. You cannot "beat the system". There is nothng *wrong* woth EGL diamonds. But they are overpriced for what they are compared to GIA or AGS.
 
Dreamer_D|1335212417|3178688 said:
You are still missing the point about how pricing works for diamonds, I think. You cannot "beat the system". There is nothng *wrong* woth EGL diamonds. But they are overpriced for what they are compared to GIA or AGS.
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I hear your argument, but I have not seen anything at that size and cut with a GIA/AGS certificate for the same price. Your argument may be true generally, but no one has been able to tell me what is wrong with the stone so as to not be worth the $3750 price tag. Please do not just continue to repeat that EGL certificates are inferior, but rather identify something wrong with this diamond that would make it worth less than $3750 if it was attached to a GIA/AGS certificate.
 
I'm more concerned about the large feather and it's location. Just for ex.)http://idjewelryonline.com/diamond_details1.php?id=37207670&shape=B&pricefrom=0&priceto=500000&caratfrom=1.20&caratto=10.00&colorfrom=D&colorto=M&clarfrom=IF&clarto=VS2&polish=ANY&cert=GIA&symmetry=ANY&depthfrom=&depthto=&tablefrom=&tableto=&cut=Array&item_id=
Same spread
 
Just go ahead and buy that fantastic EGL stone.
What a steal!!! :appl: :appl: :appl:

It's probably really a D IF and you are getting the deal of the century!!!
Kudos to you!
Everyone here is just jealous of your astonishing diamond-deal-finding prowess!

This is of course sarcasm, but frankly, it's all that's left we can offer you at this point since you refuse to pull your head out of the sand after receiving superb advice from experts.
 
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