PSA: What to do during a mass shooting

[OreoRosies86]

No but if you are prescribed or diagnosed then your doctor is required to notify the FBI for input into the database.

So why not a mandatory psych evaluation then? The military won’t let you enlist if you were on antidepressants, not without a waiver. I’m sure knowing this people have intentionally not sought treatment knowing it would limit them. Seems to me saying “If you’re seeking treatment you’ll be reported to the FBI as a possible future threat” would only discourage people from seeking treatment at all, ever.

 

[Arkteia]

I’m going to wade in here to ask, how do you propose to get the guns out of the hands of gangs, criminals, etc.? Chicago has tried several programs and our gang violence is increasing. You make it sound so simplistic. It would be a lovely utopian world if only...

I think It is not utopian. We have to study the experience of other countries. Australia. GB. Germany. Japan. Heck, take any, our gun laws are comparable to those of Yemen.

We have gangs? We also have police and army. Let us start with tougher gun laws. Who allowed AR-15 regulations expire? Bush? Why do wee have assault rifles in the hands of the civilians?

 

[Arkteia]

No but if you are prescribed and/or diagnosed then your doctor is required to notify the FBI for input into the database.

The doctor has client-doctor privilege. Unless you say that you have violent plans...but most don't. You can not report everyone with depression or ADD because honestly, 26% need psychiatric help at any given moment in time. And while mass shooters are probably depressed as well, what turns them into murderers is not depression; it way more complex.

 

[Arkteia]

So why not a mandatory psych evaluation then? The military won’t let you enlist if you were on antidepressants, not without a waiver. I’m sure knowing this people have intentionally not sought treatment knowing it would limit them. Seems to me saying “If you’re seeking treatment you’ll be reported to the FBI as a possible future threat” would only discourage people from seeking treatment at all, ever.

This, and also, the fact that the army, the police and the pilots can not get treatment for mental issues is inhuman and frankly, scary.

 

[t-c]

Very very very little, there is way to much already in many areas.
Why should I give up my rights? They are mine.

For the good of society? In the same way people agree to a speed limit, to pay taxes, etc...There are responsibilities attached to being a member of society.

But you say very very little. That means there is something you’re willing to give up — what is it? Or are you just hedging because you’re afraid you would sound like an NRA extremist?

Answer this: do you see mass shootings like Vegas as just something we’ll have to live with?

 

[t-c]

Using the same argument that is used against voter id.
That is racist and discriminates against the poor.
So only people that can afford classes are allowed to exercise a right?

Now as for defending others, no that is not what CCW is about.
A CCW is not a police badge.

Even police offices can stand right beside you while your stabbed to death and do nothing and can not be held accountable in court.
The supreme court has ruled that law enforcement has no obligation to protect anyone that they have not created a specific contract with to defend them.

Actually, there are Good Samaritan laws. But even if an officer is legally able to stand there and watch while someone gets stabbed, I’m pretty sure the police department will not look kindly at that and he/she will likely not be an officer soon enough — because there are some expectations of citizens and people in society over and above what are codified in laws.

 

[monarch64]

Public assistance for guns! It is a necessity for survival, like food and shelter, so let’s come up with a program to make sure EVERY citizen not only has the right to bear arms, but is ensured a quality weapon. I believe this should be put first ahead of health care.

*crickets ensue*

 

[Dee*Jay]

Public assistance for guns! It is a necessity for survival, like food and shelter, so let’s come up with a program to make sure EVERY citizen not only has the right to bear arms, but is ensured a quality weapon. I believe this should be put first ahead of health care.

*crickets ensue*

What not combine the two: An AK47 issued with every Obamacare enrollement/renewal!

 

[Tekate]

Nope I wouldn't tell @Arcadian that he/she? couldn't carry a gun, just not a rapid repeat 30 shot gun. If you read what I said, people can have a gun but not an arsenal.

I don't think there should be any lobbying of Congress so they can all go. As far as keeping my guns at the range, lot of good they would do me there to protect myself and my family. Arcadian has used her personal weapon to protect herself, would you tell her that she cannot do so?

 

[Tekate]

I'd say redneck white guys DO have more guns. Than liberal white guys in the city. I have lived in the south for many years and have encountered many a white redneck with a gun, but stereotyping people isn't my thing really because I believe anyone can educate themselves on the pitfalls of owning guns etc. the stats on accidental gun deaths etc. I think you are being very magnanimous to allow Muslims to have guns because a LOT of Trump supporters woudn't.

I do 100%, self defense is a right no matter what someones religion or race.
I have helped teach people how to handle a firearm safely of many different religions and races and both sexes. The media loves to paint gun owners as redneck white guys but gun owners are really a diverse group.

 

[Maria D]

Our one "military" type weapon (I assume you mean AR15 style) that we have fires the same rounds and capacity as my Ruger Mini-14 ranch rifle that was never on any ban list.

Really? I know nothing about guns. If your Ruger Mini-14 could have just as easily mutilated babies in a church before some good guy with yet another rifle could have done anything about it, then let's ban that too!!

 

[Bonfire]

I think It is not utopian. We have to study the experience of other countries. Australia. GB. Germany. Japan. Heck, take any, our gun laws are comparable to those of Yemen.

We have gangs? We also have police and army. Let us start with tougher gun laws. Who allowed AR-15 regulations expire? Bush? Why do wee have assault rifles in the hands of the civilians?

Thanks for addressing my question to you. I also don’t think we need assault type weapons in the hands of civilians. I think it would help you understand better to go upthread and read what tekate linked. It would give you a better understanding of the reality of Chicago’s gun problem. I keep referenceing it because it shows gun laws (the toughest in the nation) are not working or enforceable. How do you suggest getting all the guns off the street if law enforcement aren’t able to? Heck, I’d love to live in your utopia.

 

[redwood66]

Really? I know nothing about guns. If your Ruger Mini-14 could have just as easily mutilated babies in a church before some good guy with yet another rifle could have done anything about it, then let's ban that too!!

But it doesn't look scary so it was not included in the previous ban. See how much sense that made?

 

[redwood66]

The doctor has client-doctor privilege. Unless you say that you have violent plans...but most don't. You can not report everyone with depression or ADD because honestly, 26% need psychiatric help at any given moment in time. And while mass shooters are probably depressed as well, what turns them into murderers is not depression; it way more complex.

If it saves one life it is worth isn't it? Perhaps it would help with suicides?

 

[redwood66]

I think It is not utopian. We have to study the experience of other countries. Australia. GB. Germany. Japan. Heck, take any, our gun laws are comparable to those of Yemen.

We have gangs? We also have police and army. Let us start with tougher gun laws. Who allowed AR-15 regulations expire? Bush? Why do wee have assault rifles in the hands of the civilians?

Because the ban did not reduce gun deaths. It made people feel like they were "doing something" when it actually did nothing. It will be the same if they are banned again as there are tens of millions already in circulation. This is why criminals who use guns need to spend more time behind bars. Straw purchasers actually have to be prosecuted and do time.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/sunday-review/the-assault-weapon-myth.html

 

[Arkteia]

If it saves one life it is worth isn't it? Perhaps it would help with suicides?

No. Turning depressed people to FBI does not save any lives, it will probably make the said people suicidal.
Now, not having gun at hand would probably decrease the total number of suicides, becausee other methods are not so foolproof.

 

[House Cat]

I’m in agreement for making some kind of database for people who have been hospitalized on a 5150 hold. I don’t know if someone like that should be allowed to own a gun. I would hope that someone who’s been 5150’d would self monitor, but then again, you can’t hope for perfection out of any human.

Instead of a database for all mentally ill people, I think we should address the problem of how we treat our mentally ill population. When someone goes to the ER and says they are suicidal, it is now being said that this is a level 4 brain crisis, like a heart attack or a stroke. Then these people are being told there isn’t a hospital room for them for two weeks.

As a nation, we don’t take mental illness seriously. I don’t know for sure but I am venturing a guess that the fallout of ignoring this problem probably costs us far more money than if we were to treat it.

 

[Arkteia]

Because the ban did not reduce gun deaths. It made people feel like they were "doing something" when it actually did nothing. It will be the same if they are banned again as there are tens of millions already in circulation. This is why criminals who use guns need to spend more time behind bars. Straw purchasers actually have to be prosecuted and do time.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/sunday-review/the-assault-weapon-myth.html

You like NY times?
OK, here is another article from the media.
This is about the added benefit of lithium. Let us add it into water and call it a day. I heard Colorado has super low levels.

Trump says it is not a gun it is mental illness? People post that unlinke Australia, we have a different culture here? (As if Australia did not start with convicts. And now they are OK with tougher gun laws, and we are not). OK, let us do something with own brains then. Lithium seems to be neuroprotective (and may have added anticancer benefits).

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/opinion/sunday/should-we-all-take-a-bit-of-lithium.html

 

[monarch64]

I take issue at a stipulation that would disallow those with a history of depression or who’ve been on antidepressants to buy guns. Mental health may be a factor, but who has committed every one of these mass shootings? Males. However, what if a perfectly healthy woman who owns guns lives with a man who has a history of depression or other mental illness? What’s to stop him from using HER guns, besides a locked vault he may be able to coerce her into opening or find a way to open it without her permission? Was this not kinda the case with the Sandy Hook shooter?

Let’s also talk about the killing mentality with which we raise our boys here in this country. As long as we continue to have a military and actively recruit and spread propaganda that the US is best and we’ll fight the good fight, we will never be a peaceful country. This nation was built on genocide and it will never change.

So while I refuse to be part of the problem and go out and buy a gun or 11, I also acknowledge that “it is what it is” and there ain’t no fixing it, and I want some damn body armor!

 

[Arkteia]

It seems that someone needs good root-cause analysis of why tightening gun laws in Chicago does not work. Is it Chicago or IL? What counties? What exactly happens during shootings? In what situation guns are being used more often? How are drugs involved? (If these are cartels as people were posting elsewhere, well, we have the most politically incorrect president who promised to take care of them. What has he done? ).

 

[Arkteia]

I take issue at a stipulation that would disallow those with a history of depression or who’ve been on antidepressants to buy guns. Mental health may be a factor, but who has committed every one of these mass shootings? Males. However, what if a perfectly healthy woman who owns guns lives with a man who has a history of depression or other mental illness? What’s to stop him from using HER guns, besides a locked vault he may be able to coerce her into opening or find a way to open it without her permission? Was this not kinda the case with the Sandy Hook shooter?

Let’s also talk about the killing mentality with which we raise our boys here in this country. As long as we continue to have a military and actively recruit and spread propaganda that the US is best and we’ll fight the good fight, we will never be a peaceful country. This nation was built on genocide and it will never change.

So while I refuse to be part of the problem and go out and buy a gun or 11, I also acknowledge that “it is what it is” and there ain’t no fixing it, and I want some damn body armor!

The mental profile of all mass shooters is surprisingly similar, and yet, nothing is ever said openly. The first big mistake was made when the conclusion of Littlejohn committee (Columbine) were not published. And as of now, I have never read any coherent explanation of what happens in the brains of the mass murderers. Someone knows. I think we all should.

 

[Calliecake]

I think It is not utopian. We have to study the experience of other countries. Australia. GB. Germany. Japan. Heck, take any, our gun laws are comparable to those of Yemen.

We have gangs? We also have police and army. Let us start with tougher gun laws. Who allowed AR-15 regulations expire? Bush? Why do wee have assault rifles in the hands of the civilians?

And to make the situation worse Trump approved letting mentally ill people eligible to purchase a gun. This country is insane. No citizen should ever be allowed a gun and magazine that makes it possible to shot 30 bullets in less than 5 seconds. For people to say these guns are fun is sick. People need to find another hobby.

 

[Calliecake]

If it saves one life it is worth isn't it? Perhaps it would help with suicides?

Having restrictions on assualt type rifles and 30 bullet magazines would more than likely have saved may lives just in the past 6 weeks alone (Texas church and Vegas shooting). You are completely against these things common sense things and yet you make the comment above? Seriously???

 

[House Cat]

The mental profile of all mass shooters is surprisingly similar, and yet, nothing is ever said openly. The first big mistake was made when the conclusion of Littlejohn committee (Columbine) were not published. And as of now, I have never read any coherent explanation of what happens in the brains of the mass murderers. Someone knows. I think we all should.

What do we do with that information?

 

[t-c]

To think that this is even possible is being naive. There is no way to get this genie back in the bottle and I wish people would realize this and move on to better solutions. Bonfire is right and barring door to door confiscation in every house in the US there is no way to rid every firearm from the country. If you want confiscation of every firearm then you are living in a fantasy world with all due respect. These extreme views do nothing to further any kind of solutions. People have to be realistic.

And I wish you would quit taking equally extreme positions and addressing straw men. Yours is equally naive, to think that a few frothing liberals who know zip about guns or (in this case, often) the constitution, are an actual threat. Who cares what extreme fantasy they're having? They can't have that pink pony, you know it and so do I. You need to quit saying your response is in response to that. You know as well as I do that what drives most of the objections to gun regulation is not that it won't be effective, but the ideological position that government is mostly evil and ultimately ineffective and individual rights should trump all. That and too long staring of the boogieman flogged to a fever pitch by the NRA that any registration and regulation, no matter how narrowly applied, and to only certain types of guns will inevitably lead to mass confiscation. In fact, the mere use of the word "confiscation" by gunners means I can assume they're not talking about guns anymore. Since we have history since the founding of the country to look at for evidence that there is no real danger of mass confiscation, not to mention the glacially slow ebb and flow of most legislation of any kind, forget about gun legislation, believing that confiscation is a real threat, is actually the definition of paranoia.

To both you Red, and Bonfire, the reality is there is a working model of a gun control system that works right now, and has since 1934. In all that time, there have been no mass confiscations of legal class III weapons. They're registered, they're monitored, they're left alone. So leave the "all guns" verbiage out of it and just address the guns that are most lethal on a mass scale in a single incident, right now. Anything else should be a battle for another day and likely another generation. Now apply the logic that was used to classify earlier weapons as class III, meaning, the ability of an untrained individual to be lethal on a mass scale, to the AR and AK platforms. It gets somewhat clearer.

Will it mean no one gets shot? No. Should that be enough to not try? No, because it will probably help. Over time. Of course, much like we want a pill for every ill and a Harry Potter wand, we're not terrifically good at taking the long view in the US. But at this point, with the next perfectly-legal-until-he-isn't-hyper-violent-white-dude on a near weekly schedule to shoot up the next whatever, we've truly got little left to lose making the attempt. Should your objections be any of the following: "Nothing will make shootings stop therefore we can/should try nothing other than hand-wringing a limping along as we have", or ideological fear of the surveillance state and mass confiscation, or "I'll be inconvenienced"? No, because the first is defeated already, the second has no basis in reality, and the third because it's morally stunted.

This needs to be quoted again.

 

[Calliecake]

The mental profile of all mass shooters is surprisingly similar, and yet, nothing is ever said openly. The first big mistake was made when the conclusion of Littlejohn committee (Columbine) were not published. And as of now, I have never read any coherent explanation of what happens in the brains of the mass murderers. Someone knows. I think we all should.

All you have to do is live in the US to see who commits mass shootings. Angry White Males commit the majority of them.

 

[redwood66]

http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=7538&context=jclc

this is very interesting Red.

Thank you for posting this. I finally got an uninterrupted time to read. It is a very interesting read and it is also scary that there were 32,000+ guns taken by CPD in the time frame of the data.

 

[Calliecake]

This needs to be quoted again.

You are wrong. There are many things we could do to fix this. Other countries do not have the gun violence we have. The NRA doesn't want this fixed.

People who will not look at what is best for our society don't want this fixed. Instead we will focus our efforts are trying to teach small children what to do during a mass shooting. Some people are just selfish and think only of themselves.

 

[redwood66]

Having restrictions on assualt type rifles and 30 bullet magazines would more than likely have saved may lives just in the past 6 weeks alone (Texas church and Vegas shooting). You are completely against these things common sense things and yet you make the comment above? Seriously???

The Texas shooter should never have been able to purchase any weapons under existing law.

 

[redwood66]

This needs to be quoted again.

Yes it does because some of the "frothing liberals who know nothing about guns" ksinger is talking about are posting in this thread. They are the ones who should realize that what they want will never happen so we should move on to things that will actually make a difference.