PSA: What to do during a mass shooting

[redwood66]

http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=7538&context=jclc

this is very interesting Red.

whooee that will take me some time to read. Thanks.

 

[Calliecake]

If you go back and reread the gun control threads, most people here have views and opinions very close to what I've posted regarding gun control. I never said you shouldn't post. You have asked repeatedly what people think should be done and immediately dismiss any common sense suggestions. It comes across as pot stirring

 

[monarch64]

Well there is the 6th amendment and the presumption of innocence that has to be taken into consideration as far as people who are not yet convicted of anything. If we didn't have the Constitution and Bill of Rights we might be in a dictatorship or communism or something worse.

I understand the 6th amendment. I'm thinking of a different angle. Along the lines of looking at someone's complete background/rap sheet/everything. Oh, that's not realistic? Then I stand by my recommendation that we all wear body armor.
ETA: this is what I was thinking: http://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-l...n-have-a-gun/categories-of-prohibited-people/

I have another suggestion. Anyone who is a "responsible" law-abiding, gun-owning citizen must take classes in how to defend their fellow humans in the case of shootings, and be required to act during said shootings, and face the consequences if they can't hold up their end of the deal. Like sitting in the exit row of a plane.

I mean at this point I'm just throwing stuff against the wall in hopes that something sticks!

 

[redwood66]

I understand the 6th amendment. I'm thinking of a different angle. Along the lines of looking at someone's complete background/rap sheet/everything. Oh, that's not realistic? Then I stand by my recommendation that we all wear body armor.

I have another suggestion. Anyone who is a "responsible" law-abiding, gun-owning citizen must take classes in how to defend their fellow humans in the case of shootings, and be required to act during said shootings, and face the consequences if they can't hold up their end of the deal. Like sitting in the exit row of a plane.

I mean at this point I'm just throwing stuff against the wall in hopes that something sticks!

Maybe I misunderstood you the first time because I was going under the premise that they had not been convicted. If they have convictions already that prohibit them then a background check "should" flag that. This latest horrific act tells me that there are problems with the system working like it should. I want them to fix it and fast.

I do take classes and enjoy them very much. Defensive handgun courses that address multiple people, wounds to myself and how to still operate my pistol, moving and shooting, etc. But no you can't hold me responsible if I don't save you. I would definitely try though.

 

[redwood66]

If you go back and reread the gun control threads, most people here have views and opinions very close to what I've posted regarding gun control. I never said you shouldn't post. You have asked repeatedly what people think should be done and immediately dismiss any common sense suggestions. It comes across as pot stirring

Well I am sorry you feel that way because it is not my intention. But for you to say "most people here" have views like yours does not take into consideration those that do not post. I see it the same as the opinion of many who post on here about religion and how they speak about it is very offensive but I keep my mouth closed.

 

[Bonfire]

Very interesting read @Tekate , albeit a depressing one. Chicago has been the most tightly regulated city in the nation and we have the highest gun violence in the nation. sad The underground gun market in Chicago is a labyrinth of corruption. So the over simplification of gun control is truly a band aide on a hemorrhage. But we need to start somewhere. Thanks for posting.

 

[Tekate]

I agree @Bonfire getting rid of the straw man gun sales would be a great start.
Do serious background checks.
We need to send back to Central America illegal aliens in gangs (well
all illegals in a way but let's get rid of the seriously bad ones first).

Gun shows should be just outlawed. If you need a gun, go to a gun
shop.

Do not allow Gun Manufacturers to in any way lobby Congress. Since they
deal in lethal weapons designed to kill then they should count them out
as being allowed to influence voting.

Just a few thoughts. I do not want to stop legitimate hunters. I know that
many people like to shoot guns at ranges for the happy factor of accuracy,
I've not problem with that, they just have to have a safe at the range
and lock their gun(s) up and have good insurance and the person(s) who
operate ranges have to have GREAT insurance and ensure their arsenal
is safe.

I don't have an opinion on how many guns a person can own. Seems
redundant, but people do have collections etc. But I think over 100
(actually over 5 but that wouldn't fly) is too much.

tekate )

Very interesting read @Tekate , albeit a depressing one. Chicago has been the most tightly regulated city in the nation and we have the highest gun violence in the nation. sad The underground gun market in Chicago is a labyrinth of corruption. So the over simplification of gun control is truly a band aide on a hemorrhage. But we need to start somewhere. Thanks for posting.

 

[Bonfire]

I agree @Bonfire getting rid of the straw man gun sales would be a great start.
Do serious background checks.
We need to send back to Central America illegal aliens in gangs (well
all illegals in a way but let's get rid of the seriously bad ones first).

Gun shows should be just outlawed. If you need a gun, go to a gun
shop.

Do not allow Gun Manufacturers to in any way lobby Congress. Since they
deal in lethal weapons designed to kill then they should count them out
as being allowed to influence voting.

Just a few thoughts. I do not want to stop legitimate hunters. I know that
many people like to shoot guns at ranges for the happy factor of accuracy,
I've not problem with that, they just have to have a safe at the range
and lock their gun(s) up and have good insurance and the person(s) who
operate ranges have to have GREAT insurance and ensure their arsenal
is safe.

I don't have an opinion on how many guns a person can own. Seems
redundant, but people do have collections etc. But I think over 100
(actually over 5 but that wouldn't fly) is too much.

tekate )

I agree with your recommendations tekate, they seem reasonable and make sense.

 

[t-c]

Again I ask: what are gun lovers willing to live with in terms of limits on their rights to have guns?

The pro-gun control folks have proposed multiple ideas only to be repeatedly shot down (hah!) by pro-gun folks, so I am asking the pro-gun folks for THEIR ideas.

If you don’t think there should be any limits and that we should just have to live with daily shootings and monthly mass killings, feel free to post that too. But mostly, I’d like to see constructive suggestions from the other side rather than constant naysaying.

 

[Calliecake]

I've asked multiple times in other threads and did not receive an answer
@t-c . Any suggestions I had such as gun registration, assault type rifles being made illegal, limit the number of bullets in a magazine, I was always told these things would never be acceptable to gun owners.

 

[Karl_K]

So if we carry in our churches do we support guns in mosques and temples?

I do 100%, self defense is a right no matter what someones religion or race.
I have helped teach people how to handle a firearm safely of many different religions and races and both sexes. The media loves to paint gun owners as redneck white guys but gun owners are really a diverse group.

 

[Karl_K]

Again I ask: what are gun lovers willing to live with in terms of limits on their rights to have guns?

Very very very little, there is way to much already in many areas.
Why should I give up my rights? They are mine.

 

[Karl_K]

I have another suggestion. Anyone who is a "responsible" law-abiding, gun-owning citizen must take classes in how to defend their fellow humans in the case of shootings, and be required to act during said shootings, and face the consequences if they can't hold up their end of the deal. Like sitting in the exit row of a plane.

Using the same argument that is used against voter id.
That is racist and discriminates against the poor.
So only people that can afford classes are allowed to exercise a right?

Now as for defending others, no that is not what CCW is about.
A CCW is not a police badge.

Even police offices can stand right beside you while your stabbed to death and do nothing and can not be held accountable in court.
The supreme court has ruled that law enforcement has no obligation to protect anyone that they have not created a specific contract with to defend them.

 

[Calliecake]

Well I am sorry you feel that way because it is not my intention. But for you to say "most people here" have views like yours does not take into consideration those that do not post. I see it the same as the opinion of many who post on here about religion and how they speak about it is very offensive but I keep my mouth closed.

The results of a poll last summer stated 52% of American's were in favor of stricter gun control. The poll was taken before the Vegas and Texas shootings. My guess would be those two incidents may have swayed more Americans into agreeing we need to make changes. When you say religion are you referring to the thoughts and prayers comments?

 

[Calliecake]

Very very very little, there is way to much already in many areas.
Why should I give up my rights? They are mine.

So as long as you have your rights the fact that so many lives have been lost is not important. Didn't the people in Vegas or Texas have the right to live? WOW. Like I've said before in gun threads. America puts their love of guns above their love of family and friends.

There is a reason other countries do not have the number of gun deaths and shootings we have in the US. It's not hard to figure out why.

 

[Karl_K]

So as long as you have your rights the fact that so many lives have been lost is not important. Didn't the people in Vegas or Texas have the right to live? WOW. Like I've said before in gun threads. America puts their love of guns above their love of family and friends.

There is a reason other countries do not have the number of gun deaths and shootings we have in the US. It's not hard to figure out why.

Gun laws would have not prevented either shooting any more than they prevent shootings in Chicago.
So why should I give up my rights for laws that do not work?

 

[Calliecake]

Maybe not Karl, but a ban on bump stocks, assault riffles and limiting the number of bullets in a magazine sure may have made a difference in the number of deaths and injuries. SMDH


Once again, as long as you have your rights who cares if anyone else gets to keep their right to live.

 

[monarch64]

Using the same argument that is used against voter id.
That is racist and discriminates against the poor.
So only people that can afford classes are allowed to exercise a right?

Now as for defending others, no that is not what CCW is about.
A CCW is not a police badge.

Even police offices can stand right beside you while your stabbed to death and do nothing and can not be held accountable in court.
The supreme court has ruled that law enforcement has no obligation to protect anyone that they have not created a specific contract with to defend them.

I love how every single suggestion is turned down here immediately.

Fine, then the gun manufacturers can take on the expense of the classes. Happy? Oh by the way, aren’t guns kind of expensive, plus ammo and all? If one can afford a gun or a collection of guns, why can’t one afford a class? You could teach it—all it is is draw weapon, take cover, shoot the bad guy, right? Doesn’t sound like a major expense for Big Weaponry to take on!

 

[Calliecake]

They constantly ask what can be done and won't compromise on any suggestion. It's their way and nothing else @monarch64. I can't imagine being so paranoid that you feel you need a gun with you at all times. SAD

Funny didn't one of the performers in Vegas change his mind immediately about needing and wanting gun control once the bullets were flying In his direction.

Serious question, if you don't have money and can not afford to take a gun safety class how the heck do you afford a gun and bullets?

 

[redwood66]

I agree @Bonfire getting rid of the straw man gun sales would be a great start.
Do serious background checks.
We need to send back to Central America illegal aliens in gangs (well
all illegals in a way but let's get rid of the seriously bad ones first).

Gun shows should be just outlawed. If you need a gun, go to a gun
shop.

Do not allow Gun Manufacturers to in any way lobby Congress. Since they
deal in lethal weapons designed to kill then they should count them out
as being allowed to influence voting.

Just a few thoughts. I do not want to stop legitimate hunters. I know that
many people like to shoot guns at ranges for the happy factor of accuracy,
I've not problem with that, they just have to have a safe at the range
and lock their gun(s) up and have good insurance and the person(s) who
operate ranges have to have GREAT insurance and ensure their arsenal
is safe.

I don't have an opinion on how many guns a person can own. Seems
redundant, but people do have collections etc. But I think over 100
(actually over 5 but that wouldn't fly) is too much.

tekate )

I don't think there should be any lobbying of Congress so they can all go. As far as keeping my guns at the range, lot of good they would do me there to protect myself and my family. Arcadian has used her personal weapon to protect herself, would you tell her that she cannot do so?

 

[redwood66]

They constantly ask what can be done and won't compromise on any suggestion. It's their way and nothing else @monarch64. I can't imagine being so paranoid that you feel you need a gun with you at all times. SAD

Funny didn't one of the performers in Vegas change his mind immediately about needing and wanting gun control once the bullets were flying In his direction.

Serious question, if you don't have money and can not afford to take a gun safety class how the heck do you afford a gun and bullets?

I ask the same question about an id. Someone can't afford it? Pshaw.

 

[OreoRosies86]

I love how every single suggestion is turned down here immediately.

Fine, then the gun manufacturers can take on the expense of the classes. Happy? Oh by the way, aren’t guns kind of expensive, plus ammo and all? If one can afford a gun or a collection of guns, why can’t one afford a class? You could teach it—all it is is draw weapon, take cover, shoot the bad guy, right? Doesn’t sound like a major expense for Big Weaponry to take on!

No, spray them in the face with fire extinguisher if not bullets. Sheesh, keep up!

 

[Karl_K]

Serious question, if you don't have money and can not afford to take a gun safety class how the heck do you afford a gun and bullets?

A serviceable firearm for self defense can be purchased for around $200 add another $50 for some ammo and range time.
Classes cost around $100
That is a serious increase in the total cost of ownership $250 to $350 over 71 percent increase.

If the gun companies had to pay for classes the price of the classes would be added to the price of the firearm again limiting access to the poor.
I guess only rich people should be able to defend themselves??

 

[Calliecake]

And again I ask this question..... If a person is not employed how do they afford to purchase a gun and ammunition? If $100 is considered a large amount of money (price of classes) wouldn't you think $250 would be harder to come up with?

 

[OreoRosies86]

Yet if gun prices were arbitrarily raised, people would gladly pay. It just comes down to “I should be able to do whatever I want.”

 

[redwood66]

Why is it anyone else's business how someone spends their money? It's certainly not mine to know how or what anyone else buys as long as they are within the law. Unless it's bling and then I wanna see pics.

 

[OreoRosies86]

If throwing a diamond ring into a crowd could kill 57 people it would be our business.

 

[redwood66]

We can add all mental health information to the NICS/FBI database on everyone that has mental health issues. You can do it by specific codes so the FFL dealer will not know the reason the buyer is being denied but can just tell them they are denied. So everyone in the US will have their doctor's records entered if they have had any mental health issues or are on any kind of anti-depressant or other mental health medication.

 

[OreoRosies86]

Require mandatory psych evaluations at age 18 then?

 

[redwood66]

No but if you are prescribed and/or diagnosed then your doctor is required to notify the FBI for input into the database.