PS experts: ruby, composite ruby, or spinel?

[SpareMyWallet]

PS experts: ruby, composite ruby, or spinel?

A relative bought a ring overseas but now have doubts if is an actual ruby. After it was purchased and before I saw it in person, I did some general reading online about rubies and their treatments. I was scared that it was a glass lead filled ruby. I had no concerns that it would have been heated as I read most are these days, though unheated are available. I saw the various videos on youtube and read articles talking about how household items such as lemon/lime juice could reveal the filled fractures of a composite ruby. I already read that a simple gas-station BIC lighter could make the stone look like it fell of a highrise, appearing cracked.


I did the lime juice test. I left it soaked for 10-12 hours. It did not do anything. I did expose it to 30 seconds of a lighter flame. The stone turn significantly darker. I thought that heat usually improves color of ruby, not darkens it. Spinel stones actually turn darker when exposed to a flame, no?

See pictures below.
Picture of ring being held is before bic lighter.

Picture shows a my led flashlight underneath the ring. Before and even after the bic lighter, it still shows pink hue.

Picture on finger is before bic lighter, with plenty of lighting.




Will try to show you after photo. It basically appears maroon now. If you hold flashlight underneath it, it still glows pink. I do see edges have become dark. What is this stone?

 

[VapidLapid]

I would think that destructive DIY tests such as you have done should only be a last resort, and even then only when you do not care what the outcome is, or about the stone's survival, which to me would be pretty much only if I already knew it wasn't what it should be AND I hated the thing. Microscopic inspection and RI testing by someone who knows what they are doing is a good place to start.

 

[SpareMyWallet]

If it were a real ruby, the tests I was doing should not harm the stone. Any results if at all would mean it was a composite or another type of stone.

Would a ruby ever turn darker from a bic lighter? As far as I've read, heat treated natural rubies lighten the stone.

 

[minousbijoux]

I second what VL said. I would not be wasting my time with home tests but take it to someone with necessary equipment to do proper testing.

Good luck!

 

[FrekeChild]

I second what VL said. I would not be wasting my time with home tests but take it to someone with necessary equipment to do proper testing.

Good luck!

Ditto.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Why on earth would you do tests like you have done on one of the most expensive gemstones on earth? Its not your ring right?
Even if its a composite it still may look nice and be worth something. I hope this is a joke. A lighter? Please return to owner.


Annette

 

[SpareMyWallet]

Hi,

Why on earth would you do tests like you have done on one of the most expensive gemstones on earth? Its not your ring right?
Even if its a composite it still may look nice and be worth something. I hope this is a joke. A lighter? Please return to owner.


Annette

composites are worth about $1 per carat. Composites usually have more lead glass then ruby itself. Worthless when considering price paid thinking it were real ruby. Real ruby will not react to lemon juice or a little flame. Harm only comes if it were fake. The stone is for my wife. I had a relative get it. I am having an appraiser look at it today.

 

[digdeep]

I smell more than one issue with this post......but bottom line, if the owner REALLY wants to know what it is then go to people that study and know gemstones......not Googled TESTS IN THE KITCHEN! Geesh! Even cheap rings can look pretty and be worn happily....especially if it's a momento from a trip! If you feel someone got ripped off.......well, what can you do about that now?
Let me finish the story. The darkness is soot from the BIC lighter and this is the most valuable ruby known to man. Sorry, a bit snarky, but no more sour than lemon juice....

 

[peacechick]

Good luck with the appraisal. For a sizable purchase, it would be a good idea to get reputable certification like the guy in this thread:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ruby-engagement-ring.189530/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ruby-engagement-ring.189530/[/URL]

It's hard to know what you're buying with rubies and emeralds. But actually not that different from diamonds--you would ask for a cert too right? I hope if the ruby turns out not to be what you wanted, you can get a refund.

 

[VapidLapid]

Things a bic lighter can do to a ruby.

Make an otherwise acceptable feather inclusion run becoming either larger, or splitting.
Expand other foreign inclusions which can then crack or shatter the ruby.
deposit a layer of soot making the stone appear darker

In addition to the above for an unset ruby, a ruby in a setting can have the other stones destroyed. Diamond heated in oxygen will vaporize to carbon dioxide at 550ºF. They can also turn irreversibly milky. The setting too can be damaged, softening the metal and any solders used leaving the stone(s) vulnerable to loss.

 

[FrekeChild]

This is how I feel reading this thread.

 

[SpareMyWallet]

All better after jeweler put it through ultrasonic. He said it was a film put on by a stupid owner (me). He said big difference between clean flame and flame from a bic. See picture! Oh by the way, it's for my wife for our anniv. Turns out its real natural ruby, not composite. Even had Lastovica take a look at it here in Houston. No more DIY tests and next time see one if my jewelers or appraiser.

Luckily this lesson didn't cost me. Ring is from Turkey btw.

 

[lambskin]

Nice ring box-is it wood/

 

[OreoRosies86]

You lucked out. Lesson here: no more DIY testing! Gems should be respected. Hope your wife loves her ring.

 

[SpareMyWallet]

Thanks everyone. Yes wood box, will look nice next to BGD wood box as well.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=J75MZI_1ASA
2 minutes 15second marker is where I got the dumb idea to use a lighter. I figured, hey real ruby no harm no foul right?

Lucky lucky lucky for my free lesson. Don't listen to seminar videos where they test disposable "gems".

 

[FrekeChild]

1. An appraiser can only tell you so much. You need to send it to a gem laboratory to find out what kind of treatment it has underwent. They have all of the equipment and supplies needed to determine that. Appraisers do not.

2. It looks to be a natural ruby from all of the inclusions. I don't know much about rubies, but I know enough to know that an opaque pinkish stone is not going to be as highly valued or priced as a transparent red gem.

3. Spinels, red ones, would typically not be cloudy and opaque. And natural ones are very expensive. Synthetic spinels would be very transparent as well. Both types of spinels are not going to show the types of inclusions seen in your stone.

If you really want to know what you have, send it to a gem lab. Doing "tests" on it yourself is stupid. Appraisers can tell you some things, but not nearly as much as you seem to want to know.

http://www.fieldgemology.org/Ruby_lead_glass_treatment.pdf

 

[SpareMyWallet]

I know dn appraiser can only tell you so much, but he told me enough. He told me the all the characterics of a glass lead ruby and mine had none of them. The colors of the light hitting back through a special lense, examining through a microscope to see no gas bubbles, and a the shapes/manner of the inclusions were too natural to be glass lead. He is a GIA gemologist as well.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I'm glad you took the ring to someone who knows about gems. There is another forum on the web where professionals occasionally try to use heat to change the gemstones color. Sometimes they are successful, sometimes not(where they destroy the gem). But they heat it in ovens, even microwaves, and test the temperature for each batch they heat. They are trying to mimic the Thai "burners" who use larger OVENS to heat rubies and sapphires. Their techniques are secret and can be used for heat, flux, and glass infused into the ruby. Most rubies come thru Thailand , even Burmese rubies(the best of the best).

I have several glass filled rubies that look really good. I was going to toss them, until one of our resident experts on PS told me not to. I'm glad she did, as I like them, even if they are glass filled. I have one heated, one untested.

Yesterday, you caught me right after I read a newsletter and looked at a few untreated rubies with price charts. A fine, fine one carat ruby , according to Robert Genis) goes for $45.000 a carat(moko burma). I nearly fainted when i read your post.

No more fooling around! Annette

 

[Ramonajaguon]

Can anyone tell me if they think this May be a real ruby please?

 

[minousbijoux]

Highly unlikely - and also, you should probably start your own thread instead of resurrecting someone else's old thread.

 

[Lee Little]

I also toss certain Rubies in acid but I would not put a lighter to them. I always start with a 10x loupe to see if it is leaded glass filled but sometimes it requires getting it under the microscope and even then a tiny piece of filler may not be noticed. Just to be sure before I claim it is not leaded glass filled, I drop it into my pickle that I use in smithing for the night. (It is diluted Sulfuric acid.) No lead can hide from the acid and it does not harm Ruby at all. Best regards, Lee

 

[Lee Little]

Also for Ramona,
It is better to start a new thread. Better pictures also. The one looks like some blue flashes which may mean leaded glass filler but the pictures leave a lot to be desired even to take a wild guess. Try the macro setting on your camera and get close with lots of light. Inclusions say a lot. Best regards, Lee

 

[chrono]

I'm sorry but we can only offer guesses, sometimes good guesses but more often than not, nothing you should take as the final word. I guess I missed the original poster's thread but I would have advised sending the ruby to a lab for verification. There was one vendor who was sure the ruby was natural and untreated only to be dismayed when the lab stated that it was a very well made flame fusion (synthetic) ruby that was made to mimic inclusions that natural rubies show. Fortunately, the vendor stood by his word and refunded the buyer in full.