process to safely sell ring to online buyer

[Sooie]

My buyer is proposing:


1)I send the ring to an appraiser (everyone seems to recommend Neil Beaty)
2)he appraises the ring.
3) Buyer pays me via Paypal
4) I let the appraiser know that payment was received 
4) buyer pays the appraiser his fee and he ships the ring 

Is this the correct process?
Thanks

 

[Niel]

I've never seen anyone make the buyer pay the appraisal fee. Maybe I'm in the minority.

Usually it goes buy pays PayPal, seller ships it. If seller wants to get it appraised he does beforehand. If buyer wants it appraised he does it once he bought it. Or, makes the sale contingent on the seller getting an appraisal.

 

[Sooie]

Ok got, maybe that is what he meant. The sale is contingent upon appraisal.
Thx

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

I think the point is not the appraisal. The buyer wants the appraiser to act as a proxy to be sure that he is indeed receiving the item he bought.
Like the peace of mind you get from buying a consigned piece via a trusted vendor.

I am also open to buying a high ticket item preloved and as a buyer I'd definitely prefer this process (versus just wiring tens of thousands to a stranger...).

So for me, yes sounds like a safe way for both buyer and seller.

 

[Sooie]

Great thanks! Just wanted to confirm, before I start the process : )

 

[EvaEvans]

I personally see this process volunteer for a fraud! It all depends of WHO IS the appraiser! You should be absolutely sure that the person that you are sending your jewelry is a licensed accredited appraiser, person, that you can TRUST.

 

[soxfan]

My buyer is proposing:


1)I send the ring to an appraiser (everyone seems to recommend Neil Beaty)
2)he appraises the ring.
3) Buyer pays me via Paypal
4) I let the appraiser know that payment was received 
4) buyer pays the appraiser his fee and he ships the ring 

Is this the correct process?
Thanks

Buyer should absolutely pay the appraisal cost. It's a WF ACA, correct? So I assume it comes with paperwork? If the buyer wants an independent appraisal, they should pay for it. Is the sale contingent on appraisal? What happens if buyer backs out- are you stuck paying appraisal fee?

Neil is the absolute best. If I were going this route, he'd be who I would choose...

 

[WinkHPD]

I personally see this process volunteer for a fraud! It all depends of WHO IS the appraiser! You should be absolutely sure that the person that you are sending your jewelry is a licensed accredited appraiser, person, that you can TRUST.

Sadly,

Jewelry appraisers are neither licensed or accredited by any government agency. Some few, such as DenverAppraiser, Neil Beaty's screen name here, are highly qualified and recognized for their excellent work and their trade earned designations.

The danger that I see in all of this is PayPal. Your buyer can pay you, Neil can bless it, and within a short time after he has received it the buyer can holler calf rope and PayPal WILL give him back his money unless you can convince them otherwise.

I highly recommend wire transfer after the ring has been blessed by your appraiser and the buyer is willing to go forward. Yes, it may cost a bit and you might offer to pay the buyers fee, usually $30 or less for a domestic purchase, but once the money is in your account, it is YOURS!

Just my thoughts,

Wink

 

[BELLA9280]

We just sold my ER ring and we went back and forth finally decided to sell it on I do now I don't. There is a 15% fee but it was the safest way for the seller and buyer.

 

[Sooie]

Thanks for the tip about the wire transfer! I am sending the ring to Neil Beaty in Denver.

 

[EvaEvans]

If paypal payment is sent as friend to friend, not as payment for goods, there is no paypal fees and no holding money. If using an appraiser as middleman, seller could ask the buyer to send the money trough paypal this way: "send money to friend or family".

 

[Trudii]

If paypal payment is sent as friend to friend, not as payment for goods, there is no paypal fees and no holding money. If using an appraiser as middleman, seller could ask the buyer to send the money trough paypal this way: "send money to friend or family".

You cannot control how the buyer pays when they send it as Friends and Family. They could use a direct bank withdrawal so there are no fees for anyone, and then the above is correct, there is very little recourse for the buyer.

But the buyer can use a CC to send Friends and Family and pay the PayPal fees themselves (roughly 3%). If there is a CC in play, there is a risk of a charge-back. If there is a charge-back to PayPal, PayPal will take the money from the seller, at least temporarily. Then it becomes a contest with the CC company to prove if the buyer or seller is correct. The seller may end up getting the money back, but PayPal may also stop helping when they know you violated their terms by using this method as a payment for goods. I've seen this happen on very low value items, so I see no reason it wouldn't happen with much more expensive items like jewelry.

 

[Niel]

Yes from my understanding you could withdraw your FAMILY&F payment to someone within a year and the person you sent it to would have no PayPal protection​. I would not advocate F&F

 

[clearfading]

I would also advise wire transfer. PayPal is terrible for sellers. I sold an amazing ring to someone online only to have them, months later, open a claim against me due to buyer's remorse and PayPal instantly (without even contacting me) gives them their money back. It was a terrible, hard lesson learned. PayPal did tell me over the phone that they don't allow for buyer's remorse but all this came too late for me as I had already instructed the person to mail my ring back to me since I had no ring AND no funds for the transaction. Terrible! Good news is I sold the same ring through Grace sometime later. I will not use PayPal in such a way again

 

[EvaEvans]

If paypal payment is sent as friend to friend, not as payment for goods, there is no paypal fees and no holding money. If using an appraiser as middleman, seller could ask the buyer to send the money trough paypal this way: "send money to friend or family".

You cannot control how the buyer pays when they send it as Friends and Family. They could use a direct bank withdrawal so there are no fees for anyone, and then the above is correct, there is very little recourse for the buyer.

But the buyer can use a CC to send Friends and Family and pay the PayPal fees themselves (roughly 3%). If there is a CC in play, there is a risk of a charge-back. If there is a charge-back to PayPal, PayPal will take the money from the seller, at least temporarily. Then it becomes a contest with the CC company to prove if the buyer or seller is correct. The seller may end up getting the money back, but PayPal may also stop helping when they know you violated their terms by using this method as a payment for goods. I've seen this happen on very low value items, so I see no reason it wouldn't happen with much more expensive items like jewelry.

PARTIAL TRUE
When money is sent to friend/family, we are not talking about "buyer" and "seller", but "sender" and "receiver". There is no paypal seller/buyer protection in this case. Even if Credit Card is used to back up the sending of money, once funds are cleared, I really doubt that the process could be reversed.

Yes from my understanding you could withdraw your FAMILY&F payment to someone within a year and the person you sent it to would have no PayPal protection​. I would not advocate F&F

FALSE
I just called paypal Customer Support, there is no possibility to withdraw the money you sent to friend/family.
Once the money is accepted from the receiver, process is not reversible.

Post by clearfading » 16 Mar 2017 09:19
I would also advise wire transfer. PayPal is terrible for sellers. I sold an amazing ring to someone online only to have them, months later, open a claim against me due to buyer's remorse and PayPal instantly (without even contacting me) gives them their money back. It was a terrible, hard lesson learned. PayPal did tell me over the phone that they don't allow for buyer's remorse but all this came too late for me as I had already instructed the person to mail my ring back to me since I had no ring AND no funds for the transaction. Terrible! Good news is I sold the same ring through Grace sometime later. I will not use PayPal in such a way again

PARTIAL TRUE
Paypal cannot refund instantly to the buyer, that never happened. Paypal hold the payment until the case is solved.
If you know paypal Terms and Conditions and if you follow the rules, you will not be in trouble. Paypal have buyer AND seller protection. I prefer to pay 3% to paypal, instead to pay 10-15% for a middleman in the sale. You prefer to pay more for your protection. That is just a personal choice.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I've never seen anyone make the buyer pay the appraisal fee. Maybe I'm in the minority.

Usually it goes buy pays PayPal, seller ships it. If seller wants to get it appraised he does beforehand. If buyer wants it appraised he does it once he bought it. Or, makes the sale contingent on the seller getting an appraisal.

I have done this with Neil Beaty and the buyer is the one who is requesting the appraisal and pays for it. The buyer is the one to whom the appraiser is reporting.

I kind of knew my seller and trusted him. But Neil Beaty offers escrow service for a fee to accept payment an then pays the buyer. I don't recall the exact numbers, but it was less than $500 for an item a little over $10k. I am not sure I'd do a wire transfer as a buyer unless the seller was a known member here. I did do it in my situation.

 

[denverappraiser]

Sort of. The tricky part is that the seller controls the piece. I will send it back, or send it forward, based on what THEY say with regard to releasing the piece. Technically, that makes them the client, or at least a co-client. I’m happy to share my findings with whoever THEY tell me to but it’s at their request not the buyers. It’s their data. In the extreme, if I don’t get paid, that’s whose feet I hold to the fire. For this reason, I’ve started billing this sort of thing to the seller. The buyer is welcome to pay if they want.


There are a few major exceptions that come up.


#1 If both the buyer and seller are local and come in together, I’ll do the inspection on behalf of the buyer with both parties present. I’ll bill the buyer and I’ll give them the results. They can share with the seller if they wish but I will not. I never take possession of the property and have no fiduciary responsibility to the seller at all.


#2 If the seller is a dealer I’m familiar with, for example any of the dealers who advertise here and most of the local crowd around Denver. They’ll send me a stone or item on approval and I do an appraisal for a 3rd party client. I still won’t release the goods without permission (of course) and if trouble comes up, they’re happy to be on the hook for the return shipping and so on. I do not share the report with the seller and won’t discuss anything about it with them other than logistical details regarding the shipping.


#3 If I’m escrowing the deal, BOTH are clients.


#4 If the buyer pays the seller first and the deal with me is a question of whether they should ask for a refund. I’m not sure this even really belongs on this list because I don’t have anything to do with the seller here. I usually don’t even know who they are.

 

[Modified Brilliant]

Just checking my new super-sized avatar....and reading this thread with interest. Good information for all to know regarding escrow and Paypal. File for future reference.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I guess my experience was not the norm for Neil, but maybe it is because I suggested the seller send the item to Neil to handle the sale. It was never mentioned that the seller would pay for the appraisal. I paid for it and I received the results. It was definitely to my advantage to do it that way. It gave me the information I needed to go forward with the sale, and I did have the safety of Neil holding the stone until the seller received wire payment. With wire or paypal you have proof of payment, so that is also a protection. I also paid shipping from Neil to me. Overall, it was very worth the small amount I paid for the safety it provided.