Problem with racist worker at the UPS store....

[cmd2014]

I think you have options, and I also think that UPS corporate has options, only one of which is firing their employee.

You could (if you felt comfortable), go back to that store given that there is a good chance that this person would be working there and talk to her in person - saying that you were shocked and really uncomfortable with what she said, but that you were too taken off guard to let her know at the time how uncomfortable you felt. You could call the local store management and ask to speak to her manager about it. You could call the corporate customer service number and report it too.

As for UPS's response, termination is usually a step of last resort. Most employers (we would hope) have some kind of obligation to their employees. Maybe some feedback to her from her manager would be enough to address the issue. Maybe additional training would be appropriate - because when you know better, you do better. Maybe this is not the first offence and other remedial actions have already been taken, in which case, firing would be appropriate. But firing isn't the first, only, or even best response at times to HR issues like these.

I think it's easy to forget that there are human beings on both sides of the equation. Being overly punitive doesn't always solve the problem - sometimes it just causes people to become defensive and dig in their heels and insist that they didn't do anything wrong (certainly not someone wrong enough to threaten their whole livelihood and the well being of their family over), rather than really hearing the message and doing better going forward. I would hate to be fired for something I did wrong without being given the opportunity to remediate it. I think everyone deserves that. Plus, while what she said was clearly wrong and offensive and needs to be addressed, perhaps there was some context to it that was not witnessed. One of the few things that Dr. Phil says that I agree with is that no matter how flat you make a pancake, there are always two sides.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,
Octomom, here is my suggestion and comment. It seems to me that our worker was annoyed with the customer for a reason we do not know. She lashed out by saying these people should go home. It doesn't sound hateful ,and while unprofessional is a statement that has been used for generations of immigrants in the past. Most survive because in the end we are tolerant of others not like ourselves.

I think if you had just said something like, "Oh, I don't feel that way", you have told the worker you do not agree with her, but you also did not get angry. I suspect she would have told you why she was annoyed at the woman. Maybe you would have understood, and the worker would have realized her error. No reason to blow this out of proportion. If it makes you feel better I would speak to the manager and if it turns out to be the worker, just state in non angry terms that you thought it was unkind and an inappropriate comment.

In the future be ready with some calm statements. You will not cause a riot. Remember she did not say this to the woman. She said it to you.

Annette

 

[Meowingtons]

@Octo2005, kudos on you for taking a step forward to address this situation. People need to learn that racism is NOT acceptable, period, and there's consequences for their actions. I second the suggestions of following up with corporate as the right step to go. Talking to just the manager we have no idea if it would ever be addressed - especially when we don't know if the manager may actually condone or even encourage such behavior. Also it's more likely for the manager to keep it under wraps than report to corporate to save their own skin, which means the woman in question would not get appropriately censured for her behavior.

 

[JPie]

I like @cmd2014 's suggestion of going back to talk to the employee if you're comfortable with that idea. Her response will give you a better idea of how to proceed next.

 

[redwood66]

I went out for a bit but was going to suggest the very same thing @cmd2014 did. I live in a smallish city and would definitely go back (though I know I would have said something in the moment) without your son. It is good you discussed it with him at the time though. Because I never know another person's situation, before I would do something that may affect their livelihood, possibly permanently, I would ask myself why I am doing it. Just to make sure I am not doing it just to make me feel better or superior.

 

[strawrose]

I once emailed USPS about a super rude worker that angered about everyone. It worked, since she was SUPER nice the next time and asked for feedback. Most likely UPS won’t fire her right away, but give her a reprimand and monitor her. Don’t feel guilty and think your action will fire her.

 

[luv2sparkle]

Maybe her getting fired won't solve anything, maybe you are right and it would just make her angrier. I just don't think it should be tolerated when working with the public. It seems like our country is out of control with meanness and it overshadows everything. We can no longer discuss any issue without people becoming mean and nasty. It certainly doesn't help that our president doesn't seem to have a filter, but neither does the media. People online make rude comments to people they don't know just because they can hide behind a screen. People have forgotten that kindness makes everyones life so much happier. I am not saying that as a platitude. It really does. Spend a day being kind to everyone you meet and see how much better that feels at the end of the day.
Have you ever noticed that when there is a tragedy somewhere, people start coming out and helping their neighbors and for a little while it seems like there might be hope for us all. But soon after the pettiness returns. I wish we could find a way to keep that just a little longer. Sorry for the rant.

 

[House Cat]

..

 

[Tekate]

Me either but I don't think this situation will at all stop her from getting another job, if it's a low end job there are plenty of them Red. If she were an architect it might stop her, but service jobs at least for now are plenty.

Sorry. I can't condone someone who is perfectly capable of working being on public assistance.

 

[House Cat]

I went out for a bit but was going to suggest the very same thing @cmd2014 did. I live in a smallish city and would definitely go back (though I know I would have said something in the moment) without your son. It is good you discussed it with him at the time though. Because I never know another person's situation, before I would do something that may affect their livelihood, possibly permanently, I would ask myself why I am doing it. Just to make sure I am not doing it just to make me feel better or superior.

I’m certain that UPS has a no tolerance policy in their employee handbook regarding racism. At that point, this woman forfeited her own employment the moment she made a racist statement to a customer. She was in control of her own destiny.

 

[Matata]

This from 2016 re: UPS racism problem https://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/19503/ups_has_a_racism_problem and then continuing issues into 2019 at the Ohio distribution hub https://www.cbsnews.com/news/black-workers-at-ups-hub-say-they-were-targets-of-racism/

 

[redwood66]

I’m certain that UPS has a no tolerance policy in their employee handbook regarding racism. At that point, this woman forfeited her own employment the moment she made a racist statement to a customer. She was in control of her own destiny.

I guess it's up to the persons involved to decide how to proceed. We are discussing what we would do in the same situation. UPS is a private company and can respond as they see fit should the OP decide to go that route. Not your or my decision.

 

[strawrose]

I would like to add that the USPS lady had a whole list of Yelp reviews complaining about her that I linked to management. I don’t think UPS will fire her based on only one person when she wasn’t caught. They need to be careful to not deal with lawsuits.

 

[tinatark]

Hi,
Octomom, here is my suggestion and comment. It seems to me that our worker was annoyed with the customer for a reason we do not know. She lashed out by saying these people should go home. It doesn't sound hateful ,and while unprofessional is a statement that has been used for generations of immigrants in the past. Most survive because in the end we are tolerant of others not like ourselves.

I think if you had just said something like, "Oh, I don't feel that way", you have told the worker you do not agree with her, but you also did not get angry. I suspect she would have told you why she was annoyed at the woman. Maybe you would have understood, and the worker would have realized her error. No reason to blow this out of proportion. If it makes you feel better I would speak to the manager and if it turns out to be the worker, just state in non angry terms that you thought it was unkind and an inappropriate comment.

In the future be ready with some calm statements. You will not cause a riot. Remember she did not say this to the woman. She said it to you.

Annette

This. That's why my response was MYOB. Who knows what the context was. Was she stupid in saying that to another customer? Of course. Does she need to lose her job and be run out of town - back to where she came from? Looks like yes, if PS'ers got to choose punishment for poor choices of words. Was it racist? Who decides that?

 

[missy]

Was it racist? Who decides that?

"She needs to go back to her own country"

IMO yes that is a racist comment. It's not OK to let a comment like that slide. I agree saying something in the moment would've been best. But that moment is gone and it doesn't mean it is OK to let it go. I truly believe doing nothing is doing something and signals it is OK to say stuff like that. Hurtful, mean and yes racist.

I also agree probably nothing will change the mind of that worker who said that comment. Still not OK to turn the other cheek. IMO. I remember the wise words of MLK Jr.

I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice

Yeah so no thanks. I will not personably stand by when hateful comments are made. Especially if they are made to me about someone else. Not cool, not OK, not acceptable. I will always be intolerant of intolerance. Always.

 

[Tekate]

The listener decides if it's racist or not. Back in the 90s I worked for IBM and we had sensitivity training and EO traing EVERY year. In this traing I learned that it isn't what I say that matters it's what the person who hears it thinks. I read the words "go back to your country" and I perceive racism.

BTW to me it sounds also like white privilege.

Casual racism:

https://itstopswithme.humanrights.gov.au/what-can-you-do/speak/casual-racism

This. That's why my response was MYOB. Who knows what the context was. Was she stupid in saying that to another customer? Of course. Does she need to lose her job and be run out of town - back to where she came from? Looks like yes, if PS'ers got to choose punishment for poor choices of words. Was it racist? Who decides that?

 

[Octo2005]

Thank you everyone who has commented, I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts.

I should clarify the intent of my post. I have reported it to UPS and had always intended to do so.

PS and it's members are a wealth of information both for jewelry and other areas. I started the post to decide how best to contact UPS, thinking that maybe someone here might be "in the know" so to speak.

As I had guessed, UPS was difficult to actually get ahold of someone. I finally got a response with the correct person to email, but also I was told that each store is individually owned. I feel like the rep who replied to me should have forwarded this to the proper channel instead of punting the ball back to me and made me feel as though because it is a franchise UPS doesn't care.

As to those commenting that she doesn't deserve to lose her job so don't do anything, I don't agree. I do not want her to lose her job, but that is up to her employer. I would hope that she is sent to a diversity training session and learns the error of her ways. However, I don't expect that her ideas on the subject will really change.

Some of our posters have been advocating to drop it because she might lose her job. That argument doesn't hold water to me. If she doesn't want to lose her job then she shouldn't do things that risk it! Period!!! Would you be telling someone with a different type of customer service complaint to just MYOB, maybe they were having a bad day. I really don't think so, and I don't think that you would have any qualms about filing a complaint for any significant incident that occurred over a fear that the employee might lose their job.

 

[monarch64]

That employee made a racist remark and should be called on it and have to deal with the consequences. She would NEVER have said that to a POC. She only said it because she felt safe saying it to @Octo2005 who I am assuming appeared to be the same race as the employee.

What if she loses her job? She'll find another job. @Octo2005 I suppose if you care you could check with your state laws regarding public assistance and employment, but as far as I'm aware or at least in my state a woman with or without dependents who is able-bodied cannot receive assistance unless they are working at least 20 hours a week OR unemployed but enrolled in a program to help them get a job and they have to spend like 40 hours doing the program and proving that they are actively seeking employment per week. There's no "omg she's automatically going to be on welfare" if she is fired for discrimination or whatever. If it's a first offense my educated guess is that she'll have to go through some training and at the very least learn that she should keep her racist opinions to herself.

 

[LLJsmom]

I’m always appalled at that comment. If that comment was applied, Unless you’re Native American, everyone needs to “go back”. It’s sad how self-centered and lacking in awareness people are. @Octo2005 good for you for reporting it. You did the right thing.

 

[Meowingtons]

Some of our posters have been advocating to drop it because she might lose her job. That argument doesn't hold water to me. If she doesn't want to lose her job then she shouldn't do things that risk it! Period!!! Would you be telling someone with a different type of customer service complaint to just MYOB, maybe they were having a bad day. I really don't think so, and I don't think that you would have any qualms about filing a complaint for any significant incident that occurred over a fear that the employee might lose their job.

So much this. @Octo2005, good on you for going to UPS. What you did also serves as a great teaching moment and an example to your son that certain things are unacceptable and the courage to speak up for others and do the right thing. The world needs more people like that.

 

[chemgirl]

I’m floored that anyone can even suggest that the comment wasn’t racist. It’s no different than using a racial slur. Someone was being targeted for being part of a visible minority. She may have been the most annoying customer ever, so what? You don’t go there. The employee was out of line.

I think it would be great if you contact UPS. They will probably make her do additional training. If she keeps on doing it, or if this is her standard behaviour then maybe she’ll lose her job. Frankly she shouldn’t be customer facing if she can’t keep her racism in check.

I had a coworker who had been with the company 25 years. She was warned about her racist behaviour, but she didn’t believe she was being racist because she wasn’t using racial slurs. According to her she was just saying her opinions about people. The owner heard her one day and she was gone immediately. Maybe she’ll think twice before talking about people going home etc.

 

[partgypsy]

I would feel comfortable reporting this to corporate. Most likely she would not be fired for a single instance but censored and incident put in her file. If it happened again yes she probably would be fired (kind of against job rules to insult, make racist comments about customers to other customers).
I think people should do what is in their conscience, in this case reporting what you heard (to corporate). No rage mobs needed. It is up to corporate to decide how to deal with this, you just need to decide your own behavior.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Octomom, did you report this to the owner/management where the incident occurred? Corporate doesn't have jurisdiction over the personnel of the franchisee.

Two incidents have occurred where I had to address an issue face to face with the individual I had an issue with. My sons half brother lived with me a short while. He was 16. He got a job at McDonalds, and worked till closing. I discovered his manager was allowing these kids to drink beer after closing time. I went to talk to the manager and he put a stop to it immediately. The nite manager was not fired, but as long as they didn't party after hours I was Ok with that.

The second incident involved a woman, who apologized immediately to me. The nursing supervisor told me any more incidents like that and she would be gone. I think this worker had a string of complaints.

What's bothering me a bit here is that you don't seem to want to deal with this yourself. It almost seems as if its too late . I think you ought to speak to the manager there. You should want to oint out to the woman that it was an inappropriate comment. And yes, I am one of those people who don't think the woman deserves firing over this. Correction, yes, firing no.

Annette

 

[minousbijoux]

IMO yes that is a racist comment. It's not OK to let a comment like that slide. I agree saying something in the moment would've been best. But that moment is gone and it doesn't mean it is OK to let it go. I truly believe doing nothing is doing something and signals it is OK to say stuff like that. Hurtful, mean and yes racist.

I also agree probably nothing will change the mind of that worker who said that comment. Still not OK to turn the other cheek. IMO. I remember the wise words of MLK Jr.



Yeah so no thanks. I will not personably stand by when hateful comments are made. Especially if they are made to me about someone else. Not cool, not OK, not acceptable. I will always be intolerant of intolerance. Always.

Boy, do I just love you, Missy!

 

[JPie]

Was it racist? Who decides that?

Anyone with a conscience and critical thinking skills can decide for him or herself. There’s an extremely limited number of scenarios where “She needs to go back to her own country” is anything but a rude, unkind thing to say at the very least. It would be a stretch to think that any of those apply in this scenario.