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princess table and depth %-need help w/prices

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dolemite

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 11, 2002
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5
ive got my eyes on a princess E, VS1, VG polish, good symmetry, 74%table, 75 depth, .06 from being 1:1 on the length/width...it is at a retail store and they quoted me a price of 9K which ithought was outrageous. what are some criticisms that I could bring to the table to negotiate down the price. also, the retailer said the Sarin scope is useless for fancy cut diamonds (princess in my case)
i also amlooking at a 1:1 princess, H VS2, good polish& symmetry and they were asing 6k which i thought was too high b/c...also, the table was 83% and depth 77%. the guy told me the 83 table is not unusual b/c it is a high quality diamond and its really not "spread," which I am unsure. i stared at the diamond for about an hour and am still unsure about this table and depth % thing for princess cuts. is low 70s ideal table % for princess, whats the concensus for table/depth for princess in a 1:1 cut...
need help, ive only got till the 29th..:confused:
 

pricescope

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
8,266
----------------
also, the retailer said the Sarin scope is useless for fancy cut diamonds (princess in my case)
----------------


uses crown height which you can get from Sarin or Ogi report. Running Sarin measurements takes 2 minutes.

Ideal-Scope also can help checking the cut, see

[/u][/u]
 

dolemite

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 11, 2002
Messages
5
----------------
On 6/15/2002 8:27:52 AM

Dolemite

These liks could be useful:



What is the carat weight of your stones?

----------------

THE VS1,E is 1.26ct, table-75%,depth 74%, VG polish, Good symmetry,no Flour., .06 of being within 1:1 on the length to width, they want 9k, what could i use as a criticism to lower the price for negotiations......[/u][/u]
 

pricescope

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
8,266
Dolemite, do the search for Princess-1.26-E-VS1 from pricescope' front page.

You'll see that you can get similar stone for about $6,600 from reputable internet vendors...

Use it as an argument. Good luck and let us know the result.
 

skeeve47

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Messages
6
Hello--I am new to this, but: Is Fred Cuellar wrong? His checklist ("How to Buy a Diamond") says you should "disqualify" princess diamonds that don't meet his 65/65 test for table and depth %. So far I have yet to even FIND a 65/65 princess. Even Blue Nile's signature cuts are closer to 68-70.

The link to the AGA chart was very helpful, but I am baffled by the Cuellar book at this point. Any thoughts?
 

ice_is_nice

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 12, 2003
Messages
39
I don't know if the 65/65 rule is true but I know that Sirius has a Princess Ideal Cut that appears to be at least close to those parameters. You can see the range of their cut parameters on their web site at:
www.siriusdiamonds.com/pages/princess.html

I have never seen these diamonds in person so I can't really say much more about them. Perhaps others can give you more info. They are Canadian diamonds though, and my understanding is that on that basis alone, they command a bit of a premium. I believe it has something to do with the fact that they are "conflict-free".

Good luck in your search!
 

Salvation711

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Messages
2
Fred Cuellar's book is awesome. I don't care what anyone says. People in this forum only mock what they don't understand. You should take Fred's book out of the trash can and actually read it!!! Keep searching for a 65/65 Princess cut. You will be happy to find one and more importantly she will be completely excited when you do. I wish you the best of luck!!! Knowledge is power. The truth shall set you free.
 

barry

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2001
Messages
441
Try to get a look at stones with table/depth in the low 70's
and high 60's and compare to the 83/77 you've already seen.

Barry
www.superbcert.com
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Skeeve--run an archive search on Fred Cuellar --many threads will come up. Draw your own conclusions.


I got the book for free from their site and read it..just like I read a bunch of other items as well in my search. In the end I made my own educated decisions. Nothing is absolute and that is especially true while searching out beautiful stones. I would continue to do your own research, use the AGA chart for princess cuts as Leonid suggested--the chart is very helpful and will show you what is acceptable for a well cut princess stone. Use all the data you gather to make a final educated decision. Your eyes will help you in your decision as well. Don't rush your decision on selecting a stone, its one you will have to live with forever!!

Best of luck!
 

Newbie333

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 25, 2003
Messages
48
The only thing I don't understand about Fred Crueller's book is that the prices quoted are so much higher than here on PS....


Even if you look at his quotes using the GIA Class III (15%-25% below cost), sometimes his numbers are still high...


What gives?


What's the best way to determine a FAIR price???


NB333
 

Salvation711

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Messages
2
Mara - I have researched your "dirt" on Fred Cuellar. Personally, I perceive this to be nothing more than mere muck-raking, if you know what I mean. If he is such a felon, then please explain why his company manufactures Championship Rings for all the professional sports team and he is the diamond advisor to the Wedding Pages, American On-Line, etc.? Not that I'm for him or against him, but what is your major complaint? Why does he have such great credentials though everyone in these forums continues to slander him? Let me know at your earliest convenience. Thanks.
Also, are you in the diamond business?
 

neatomos

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 12, 2003
Messages
1
Ok...I heard/read so much debate and argument over Fred's Cuellar 65/65 princess cut theory and I think it's time we investigate.

1. Does anyone own a 65/65 princess diamond from Fred who can provide testimony? If the 65/65 cut provides a substantial increase in light return then surely someone out there is satisfied and is willing to spread the word.

2. Can someone with DiamCalc run a study with 65/65 parameters and specs from Fred's book to compare with the top classes from the AGA Cut Class charts for princess cut?

I'm not an advocate of Fred by any means, but I have read his book and his reasons do sound legit. The fact that a majority of the public does not consider cut when purchasing a diamond (but rather shape) coincides with Fred's statement that a majority of the diamonds are incorrectly cut. Why would a jeweler cut a perfect diamond if very few recognize its true value and more money can be made off poorly cut diamonds?

Let's attempt to resolve this issue using some evidence and make some conclusions. I know I sure could use the advice. I don't know who to believe.

 
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