Princess cut

[rcourtney]

Hello everyone,
I need help deciding whether or not I should buy this princess cut diamond and if it is worth my money. The price for this diamond is $5315. Originally, I wanted an E VVS2 1 ct princess cut but I could not find an E VVS2 with good proportions less than 6000. I guess my really question is…buying an F VS2 diamond with good proportions better than buying an E VVS2 with not so good proportions? Any advice you all can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Here are the specs from the GIA report:
1.04
F
VS2
70.1%
68%
GIA
md - stk
no
vg
ex
no
5.72-5.69x3.99
Additional Comments:
Additional clouds not shown --- is this Bad for VS2 diamond?

Inclusions are a Cloud and a needle

 

[moremoremore]

I think you are wise to drop in clarity...and the drop in color will not be apparent at all...I think...by the numbers...you'll have to see it to know...that stone could really be AMAZING and blinding white...Forget about the VS2....it's a non-issue

 

[researcher]

I agree completely (why pay for a difference you can't see unless you're an expert)! Those numbers look great! Have them run a Sarin on your stone so you can post the crown height/angles and pavilion info. Looks like a great stone so far!!!

 

[rcourtney]

Thank you all for help. Below is the Sarin report information. Let me know what you think? I think its good, but I am not sure. I put the values into the DIY calculator on the gem appraisers web site, and it came out to 1A cut (ideal).

Weight 1.04
width 5.68mm
length 5.70mm
L/W 1.0
total depth 4.0mm- 70.4%
table size 3.85mm- 67.2
Crown Height .49mm- 8.6%
Crown Angle 33.7 degrees
girdle thickness 2.6% - Thin
girdle min-max 2.6%- 3.0%
Pavillion height 3.37mm- is 59.3%
Pavillion angle 40.5

 

[researcher]

Here's my take on it from my own experience. It looks like a beautiful stone and one you will definitely want to check out, but I would try to find one with a larger crown (somewhere in here you'll find a thread wherein Dave Atlas says that he's changing the grading for crown height to reflect findings that higher crowns tend to lead to higher performing stones). Another "concern" I'd have is the girdle thickness. Princess cuts are VERY prone to chips and nicks. Although people say you don't want an extremely thick girdle, I would not choose a girdle that is not medium to thick (I like the idea of a little extra protection). That being said, if this stone is absolutely gorgeous to you it really doesn't matter what the numbers say. Everyone has their own preferences, so you have to go with what looks good to you. I personally like stones with a depth and table in the low to medium 70's, but other people like them in the 60's. What seems to matter most, however, is the difference between the table and depth (some say you want the table to be 5% less than the depth). In your case the "ideal" would be 66.6 for the table, so you're doing very well

I would definitely look into this stone.

 

[valeria101]

Wow! Those numbers defintely told all good they could... only if there was some way to predict what the stone looks like based on them. I definitely do not think that looking at this one would be a waste of time, and getting an Ideal Scope picture, or some other test of brilliance would get rid of the remaining uncertainty.

 

[rcourtney]

Thank you for all the additional post. Attached is the Ideal Scope I received from the vendor?

 

[rcourtney]

And here is the picture of the diamond!

 

[moremoremore]

A princess cut is like a box of chocolates....lol....
I'd definitely give it a look....I like the crown a little larger...but heck, who knows...I definitely don't agree with the 5% rule (sorry researcher

...but it's a good starting point)....For example, here is my new pretty (70.7 depth, 69 table)...definitely doesn't follow the 5% rule and the crown is 11.9%...

http://www.goodoldgold.com/princess_2_10ct_f_si1.htm

And I had also liked about another stone...72.2 depth and 69 table...but it had a crown of 8.4

 

[moremoremore]

LOVE IT!!!!!!!

 

[researcher]

Oh! I guess I should clarify. What I meant is it's important to keep the table smaller than the depth; that that is one of the most important factors. I didn't exactly go with the 5% rule either, but figured I'd post the advice I'd been given because it seems to fit this diamond

 

[researcher]

I have one question about your ideal scope image. There doesn't seem to be much black which is a good indicator of scintillation, and it looks like there's some light leakage. I may be totally off, so you'll definitely want to get other opinions. Here's an example of different ideal scope images for princess cuts (I think it's from GOG):

 

[rcourtney]

I was wondering about that too. There is no black on my ideal scope at all. You got me thinking!

 

[Magnum]

As far as the color and clarity, I think it was a wise decision to drop down from E VVS2 to F VS2. I doubt you could see any difference between two stones with those colors and clarities, except for the price.

In my opinion, F VS2 is always a very safe choice, in that you are virtually assured that the stone will be extremely white and eye-clean. best of luck.

 

[moremoremore]

Great points researcher!!! You know what's funny though, I recently viewed a near perfect stone...with four distinct areas of black on the B-Scope....which I knew was great...and which I now understand are necessary for contract and scintillation...But in real life when I looked at the stone, I saw four very distinct areas of black that I didn't like aesthetically....Thats one of the reasons I went with another stone (they both scored High, Very High, Very High)...it just seemed brighter....Geez, there is so much to learn out there....thank god i'm done....for now...hehehehe

 

[verticalhorizon]

I wouldn't worry about the dark areas right away. All in all, it looks to be a great stone. I would either have it checked out by an appraiser or have it sent to an appraiser near you so you can see it for yoursef!

 

[researcher]

I really hope I'm not making you worried about your stone! As I said before, it looks great

I LOVE the photo of the diamond! I was just putting some thoughts out there because stones I had thought were amazing didn't perform the way I had hoped on the BS. The stone I ended up with was VH, VH, VH, and I couldn't be happier with it (see attached photo). All in all I would DEFINITELY look at the stone. It's hard to find a winner with princess cuts, and it looks like you may have done it

I just wanted to give some additional perspectives and things to think about. On a final note, I would trust the opinions of the vendor--if they are seeing the stone themselves. As I stated in another message, you really can't go wrong with PS vendors. Place your trust in them and they won't let you down!

 

[rcourtney]

No, I appreciate your comments and advice. I just want to make sure I am making the right decision to go with this diamond because this is my first time purchasing a diamond. I don't know squat. LOL So, any advice you can give is well received.

 

[moremoremore]

great job researcher!

rcourtney- for not knowing squat, you've done pretty well...I'd call it in!

 

[researcher]

Glad to hear it! This was my first diamond purchase too (does it even count as mine because my B/F paid?

) so I know exactly how you're feeling. It's hard hearing that your stone may not be perfect, but it is true that, when you find the right stone, you'll know it. The moment you see the stone in person it really will speak to you. And as long as you're somewhat knowledgeable about diamonds you really won't get a dud. Although my search started and ended pretty quickly (like I said, you'll know when it's the right stone), people on the PS forum and my family agree we did well. With the specs you've provided, I can tell you now that your G/F will get her fair share of compliments as well. I'm so jealous of the color (we went lower in color and clarity to get the larger size (it still faces up completely white and is totally eye-clean though))! I don't know if you're totally set on the color and clarity, but you could go lower in either and save a little money or get a larger stone. Then again, a 1 ct is a good size so it's not necessary to go bigger. I'm just making this difficult again, huh? Sorry! Look at this stone and see if it speaks to you. If it does, take it and run!

 

[dsong1]

Hey Rcourtney,

Could you tell me where you purchased yours and who you dealt with in purchasing your diamond? I just got SCAMMED and you can read my experience on the post but would I be able to even talk with you? I realyl want to get a good diamond and I'm having a hard time purchasing the best quality for the money. Thanks!

 

[moremoremore]

dsong...you just have to find a good vendor...these mall places and chain stores carry cr*p....that is the first step and most important step in my book...you can even try to email a ps vendor and tell them what you're looking for....maybe they can suggest some stones...

 

[rcourtney]

moremoremore -- Thanks for the complement. If I could only tell you how many man-hours I have spent looking on the web, and I still don't feel too confident.

Researcher-- I never even thought about going bigger than 1ct. I have been stuck on getting 1ct since I started looking. I should probably think about going bigger than 1ct, but that would mean going through this pain all over again. LOL
I really hope this is the right stone. BTW, what setting did you get? I have been looking at the knife-edge solitaire setting from White flash. Have you seen this setting? What do you think?

Dsong1-- I found this diamond at whiteflash.com. Denise from White flash has helped me tremendously throughout this whole process. Denise and White flash have been awesome thus far!

 

[moremoremore]

I really like the pic rcourtney....the one thing that I can't stand in a princess cut is concentrated areas of dark...which, I've learned, is actually really a good thing in superior cuts and will correspond to dark areas in the bscope...but still- it bugs me to no end and it's possible to find a superior cut with more dispersed areas of contrast so you're not sacrificing brilliance and the stone just looks brighter...make sense?...Hope it looks as good in person! ... I'll keep my toes crossed for you!

 

[dsong1]

Thanks Rcourtney -

Seems like both you and Researcher worked w/ Denise! I just might have to give her a call as well!

As far as the setting, I purchased the 3mm knife edge and it would look beautiful! Too bad I'm in the middle of a scam and dont know if I will have to buy it or not!

 

[moremoremore]

oops- meant sacrificing scintillation

 

[moremoremore]

nope! saw mine on the net and called the J man (GOG) and he confirmed with the manu that it had some good stats and got it for me...love ever after!

 

[moremoremore]

oops- wasn't directed at me...

 

[researcher]

rcourtney,
The setting I chose is the W-prong. Although I did not like the pictures on the WF website, when I spoke with Brian "the cutter" he said the pictures on their website didn't do the setting justice and therefore sent me additional photos. It really is beautiful, and I like the fact that it's slightly different from the standard x-prong. If you're interested in different settings, however, look up my post about needing help to find a setting for a 3+ carat diamond. In it I posted several pictures of settings I had considered. My FAVORITE setting is the one with channel set side diamonds, but my stone would have sat too high (the problems with big rocks!). If you're unsure about a setting my suggestion is to go for a classic, Tiffany style solitaire. That way you're diamond will get all the attention and can easily be paired with eternity bands or a wrap later on!

What I love most about the Tiffany settings is their elegance and how they taper in near the stone, giving the illusion of a larger diamond

I'm personally not much of a fan of the knife edge settings (I don't like the feel of them on my fingers but think they are pretty), but I have several friends who love them and say you get used to them. It's honestly up to you. Talk to your jeweler and see what he/she has to say about the best setting for your stone. They've set tons of stones, and know what works best to show off your specific diamond!

BTW, isn't it funny how you get a "magic" number in your head and don't consider diamonds out of that range? I hadn't even considered looking past the 1.5 ct range until I randomly came across a 2 ct at CostCo--of all places--that was MUCH cheaper and had better specs than the diamonds I'd seen. From that point on I refused to look at stones smaller than 2 ct, and somehow wound up with the 3+ carat (I'm sure my boyfriend wishes I had chosen a 1.5 ct with lower color and clarity, but they just weren't calling to me the way the stone I chose did

). Honestly, if you have found a stone that turns out to be a winner I say go for it! Deciding on a diamond really can drive you nuts--and be very addictive if you're the recipient!

 

[researcher]

Here's a picture of a 2.8 ct round stone in the w-prong in gold with a platinum head (I will be getting all platinum and pairing it with a princess stone).