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Princess Cut Info

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rktilleryj

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2003
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9
I have done some research on the different cut grades for a Princess diamond but would like some additional insight. I am currently looking to buy a Princess diamond. It is a 1.03 carat SI1, G with 68% depth and 75% Table. Girdle is extremely thin to medium and the measurements are 6.14x5.65x3.84. Is this a good cut? Also, the table appears somewhat large for this carat weight, in fact, it had a similar table size to some 1.15-1.20 carat stones I looked at. Even though the depth% seems to be good, should I be wary of it''s large table dimensions? Thanks for any insight! - Rich
 

toomanyquestions

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Messages
41
hello -
you need to get a sarin report on the stone to get crown height, crown angle and pavilion angles, then the people here can do a better job answering you.

Do a search on 'princess cut' and you should find some good threads.

One thing you will find is that princess cut stones are difficult/tricky to determine cut with only the numbers. Numbers are a good starting point, but you really need to look with your eyes.
 

VonHugenstine

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 8, 2003
Messages
11
Rich,

I am also in the middle of a Princess search. The guidelines for purchasing a fancy cut diamond are not as reliable as they are for Round Brilliants. That being said, you should have the diamond you are interested in sent to an independant lab/appraiser who can perform firescope, light leakage, and brilliance scope tests. This will really determine whether or not you will be happy with the stone.

But before you send the diamond you can use some guidlines to help the chances that the stone will perform well. I would suggest looking for a Princess cut with a table % lower than the depth. (Approx 5-8%) This will give you a smaller table and a larger crown height %. If the depth and table percentages on this stone were switched, I would say go for it! Just my opinions, maybe some more experienced people will comment as well.
 

barry

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2001
Messages
441
Von;

It might be a step in the right direction.

Light output and light leakage in a Princess Cut is determined by the interaction of
Table, Crown, and Pavillion.

Barry
www.superbcert.com
 

dimonbob

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Dec 12, 2000
Messages
670
Hi rktilleryj welcome to the forum,

I don't want to throw a wet blanket on this thread but an extremely thin girdle is a warning.
I can guarantee you that the girdle will get nicked, chipped, or damaged in some way fairly soon. Once it has been chipped, it will get worse.
There are other princess diamonds to select from so please don't get in a rush.
Extremely thin or thick girdles on any diamond is not good.
 

rktilleryj

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2003
Messages
9
Thanks for the insight. I have read opinions in some other threads that state that table% should be lower than depth%. What is the significance of this?
 

barry

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2001
Messages
441
Rich;

The rationale for this is that a smaller table results
in a larger Crown. A large crown will assist in
yielding greater light output and a prettier stone.
Crown height/smaller table is not the whole story.
You can have high crown height % and a smaller table and still
not have a fine-looking stone. Critically important is the Crown
angle, Pavillion angles, and the angle and size of the
star facets, and the upper and lower girdle facets.
All of these work together. Minute variations
in any of these facets considerably influence the amount of
light output and light leakage of the stone.
That's why "numbers" alone don't always tell the
story.

Barry
www.superbcert.com
 

rktilleryj

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 13, 2003
Messages
9
Thanks Barry. This forum has turned out to be a great resource of information. One more question. Should an extremely thin to medium girdle be a deal breaker? Does it all depend on how much of the girdle is comprised of extremely thin proportions? Thanks again for the help.

Rich
 

barry

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2001
Messages
441
"Exremely thin" girdles in Princess Cuts
will be found at or immediatelty adjacent
to the points. As the points are fragile
to begin with, an extremely thin girdle at this
area has an even greater probability
to chip or fracture.

In my experience with Princess Cuts, an
extremely thin girdle usually comes about
because of other problems in the area that the cutter
has tried to control, massage, and/or
mitigate; i.e.; indentations, cavities,
or imperfections.

The fact is that any Fancy shape that has points,
such as Princess, Marquises, Pears, etc.
are extremely sensitive and must be handled with great
care in the setting. You increase the odds in your
favor by looking for girdles in the range
of "Thin-Thick". Also get yourself a setter
with a good pair of hands.

Barry
www.superbcert.com
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,271
Very good advice from all points. I would add emphasize Barry's point of the crown/pavilion relationship and all the angles that should be known before making any attempt of a judgment call. Vanhugenstein took the proper steps in getting an optical analysis done before he dropped the bucks. Very wise. If you'd like to see examples of princess cuts with similar #'s yet slight deviations in the angles (enough to cause the stone to take a hit in brilliancy drop me an email and I'll show you some examples). I would recommend either finding a vendor that performs optical analysis or appraiser as this will save you a lot of head and heartache.

Concerning the "very thin" girdle issue I wouldn't be so fast to let it be a deal breaker. If EVERYTHING else about the stone is super and there is only one minor portion of the stone that has a very thin girdle (not a majority of it) I'd find out ...

a. how much of that girdle is actually "very thin"? and
b. where on the stone is it "very thin"?

If it is located in a place that is not exposed (perhaps it can be protected under a prong) and is not on the majority of the girdle then I would not rule it out completely. Princess cut diamonds that are superior in optics ARE NOT EASY to find and make up a very small % of princess cuts on the market.

My .02c

Peace,
Rhino
 

DancinGirl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2003
Messages
424
"save you a lot of head and heartache"

He-he...sorry, but this just looked weird to me! I thought you guys LIKED that sort of thing???

HAHAHAHA!
Okay sorry - dirty mind, I'll go to bed now!
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,271
LOL ... you are too funny girl! When you get up around my age (upper 30's) you try not to bang your head against the wall too many times before getting it right.
Name of the game is keeping this as simple and easy as possible. Unfortunately it requires a ton of money to do that but it works!


Nite nite.

Rhino
 

DancinGirl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 23, 2003
Messages
424
Maybe you are older than I thought if ya didn't get the joke right?!?! Wow... you're slipping in your "old age" hahaa!

By the way, check your mail.

 

barry

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2001
Messages
441
By Golly, Holmes! You've done it, again!

Simple deductive reasoning, my dear Watson.

Barry
www.superbcert.com
 
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