Princess cut blues!

[MattnKat]

ok here is my dilemma. i have finally decided to take the plunge. the stone i am looking for is below. but the jeweler is telling me it would be like finding a needle in a haystack, and that he only buys by eye. he also only likes a 90/10 mix of platinum/rutheniuminstead of 95/5. i am a little depressed. am i way off in these parameters? but i was able to find these stones on the net with a minmal amount of searching. but i am leary of buying off the net. their is not alot around cleveland. what do i need to look for in a jeweler? we both really like this guy but i don't know if he can deliver what i want.

princess cut
.80~.99 is the size i am thinking about to give it the right proportion.
clarity VS1~VS2
color nothing higher than an F everything i have seen higher than an F shows too much body color.
cut:
depth 64% to 70%
table has to be 1~3 percentage points less than the depth size.
crown height 9~12% preferred
squareness ranges / length to width ratios should be between .95~1.05
polish and symmetry should be excellent (preferred) to good
girdle no large variations thin to slightly thick / very thin to medium
gia cert.

how far apart can the ratios be with respect to table and depth?

 

[Hest88]

I think you need to loosen up on your parameters. I prefer a smaller table and would look for a stone with the table size in the low to mid 60s, but to restrict the depth to purely 1-3% over that seems overly restrictive. I wouldn't go lower than your preferred crown height, but given current thinking, I wouldn't exclude something higher. I won't go into the other parameters but the more I look at them the more difficult I think it would be for you to find somethink like that. Perhaps you can contact a place like SuperbCert to cut something for you? I just don't know how much you'd be paying.

I'd definitely go with another jeweler, though. Although all jewelers should be picking out stones with their eyes, the fact that he's uncomfortable with the numbers also makes me think he might be too old-fashioned for you.

 

[MattnKat]

i do understand what you are saying. where can i loosen up without compromising brilliance? table and depth? and what ranges could i change. this is kind of the best that i have found on the forums. also where else is a good place to find information on good jewelers in my area cleveland, ohio? are there any opinion sites?

thanks for the info

 

[moremoremore]

Hi there! I think you got some good advice! You DEFINITELY need to forget that numbers always give you a good princess. There is so much more involved than just a depth and table...After years of interest in princess cuts, I've determined that it's a gamble...and a lot of mystery...your jeweler is not wrong to buy stones by using his eyes...the eyes are the best judge...My OLD jeweler had nothing but cr*p, so now I shop at Good Old Gold. GOG and the other pricescope vendors are awesome...First- go to goodoldgold.com and read up...it gives a lot of info....I do agree that it is a good place to start by looking for stones that have depths less than tables....but that doesn't mean a stone with those numbers will perform better than stones where depth is equal to table or even a little higher. A month or so ago I viewed a stone where the table was greater than the depth, and the bad boy scored a high High, Very high and Very high on the b-Scope. Then on-line I saw a stone where the depth and table were ideal, with table 3 less than depth, and it was a medium, high, v high.... The first step to finding a good stone is finding a good jeweler. Unless you can trust your eyes to be the sole judge on the stones you are interested in, you'll need to find a jeweler who can give you at least BScope results... Other issues to think about when selecting a vendor are return policies and how long they have been in business. Also, I like to upgrade, so I found GOG's return policies to suit me very well...After you find a good jeweler, you'll find that getting a great stone is a lot easier...you will also feel more confident in trusting your eyes. Princess stones can be a real b*tch...but I just love em!!!!

 

[MattnKat]

great advice! i guess that i may be to discriminating on the numbers. that comes from never buying a diamond before. i will relax on the table depth ratio. but what about the ratio in the setting itself of 90/10 in comparison to 95/5? the hardness is alot higher in the 95/5.

 

[Hest88]

This is my favorite plat chart. Platinum Alloys When I first researched platinum mixed for my DH's wedding ring I actually wanted the 90 Plat/10 Irid mix. If I were to buy a ring with a lot of intricate engraving I'd still insist on that; it's supposed to hold engravings better. 95/5 Ruth is actually more common so I'm actually surprised he doesn't favor that.

 

[researcher]

Although you cannot judge a princess by the numbers as everyone here has mentioned, you CAN narrow down your search and INCREASE your chances of finding an amazing stone. I realize that you're wanting your stone to have as large a spread as possible, but you need to keep in mind that princesses are cut to retain their weight. That being said, I would not rule out stones with depths up to 75%. My personal preference is stones with tables and depths in the high 60's to mid 70's (and, although not a necessity, trying to find stones with tables less than depth--and as close to a 5% difference between the two as possible). I would also consider SI graded stones. If the stone is 100% eye clean, you will not notice the difference between the SI and VS grades unless looking under a microscope, except for the cost. Oh, and I assume that you meant you wouldn't go lower than an "F" rather than you won't go higher (higher than "F" is D-E). Finally, Dave Atlas has actually changed the ideal crown height for princess cut stones to a minimum of 10% (reflecting expert observations), so it's something else to keep in mind.

If you go to http://www.gemappraisers.com (which you probably have), you will see that the ranges for depth, table, crown, etc. for the top rated stones have a much larger spread than what you're currently considering. As such, I personally wouldn't pass up a stone that fit this range, especially if your jeweler says it's a winner. As MMM stated, however, you might want to examine prices for some of the PS vendors (GOG, WF, etc.) and see if what you can find locally compares.

Good luck!

 

[valeria101]

Of all your restrictions, weight is the worst. The other numbers just say a fine square princess cut. But to find something a hair below 1 carat is tricky. SI1 clarity would not hurt either...

I think that the other "numbers" fit the profile of the "signature" princess cuts at either Dirt Cheap, Superbcert or Blue Nile - so those would make a good batch to start with.

As said above, it is better to look for brilliance directly (and some looser demands in terms of numbers, esp. table and crow height) instead of starting with a set of numbers. But with so few princess cuts being sold with some description of light return... this may be even more restrictive than your stats

Given the weight range, small variations of depth would not make a greta deal of difference. Girdle thickness is more "effective" at eating up material than total depth is. This may mean that looking for a certain size and brilliance benchmark may be more effective than that 65-70 depth and the rest.

Hopefully all this makes a little sense.

 

[valeria101]

Case in point...

There are about a dozen stones with your specs in the Signature Collection of BN, all below 6k. For example this 0.9cts, F-SI1 (69.8depth, 67%table, 11%crown, 1.04 L/W)
and this F-VVS (65%/^5%, 10% crown, square) The GCAL reports on these "signature" stones give you all those stats and there are pictures available (since when?) too for these pieces.

At Dirtcheap, you may find THIS interesting - looks like a fine cut and DCD's signature is not as taxing as BN's...

But I would definitely prefer one with light return accounted for rather than just numbers, such as This 0.85cts F-VS1 and THIS.

 

[HollyGo-Lightly]

Hey! I am actually looking for the almost EXACT smae specs! I totally understand how you can be absolutely frustrated!!! Our budget is actually $3000, so we actually went this whole weekend to see some G's (I ideally wanted a D) but honestly the body color was ridiculously invisible...a G that's ell cut can look like an E...So we are sticking to a VS2 clarity and a G color, but the CUT is what is killing us too!

Honestly, we just did a search for our criteria on PS, and then made a spreadsheet of all the likely stones, did some analysis on the Depth to table percentages and pared it down to about 15.

After all that we realized that honestly, as wonderful as those AGA charts are, they may be an efficient guideline to chosing and cetegorizing cuts, IT DOES NOT indicate that these ideal cuts are even existant! So many people cut these stones for carat weight, so they have big depths for carat weightage or big tables for size appearance.

You have to go out there and SEE these stones, because when we did, we saw some very very nice stones with larger depths, and the tables were still about 2-3 percent points smaller...it still worked for us!

Good luck and go see some stones to get a comparative look at these and how theyy are cut! You are in for a RIDE!!!

 

[researcher]

MattnKat~
I understand that you are leary of buying off the internet, but there really isn't a need to be concerned. I recently purchased a 3+ carat princess and had it set in a gorgeous platinum setting all through White Flash. They were AMAZING to work with! Not only were they willing to send the stones to an appraiser for us to view before paying, they did not charge my boyfriend for the diamond until the 10-day trial period was over even though we had it in our possession! While there are some companies (even through PS) that I am not too sure of because of posts I've read from unhappy customers, I would personally trust White Flash (I worked with Denise who was unbelievably patient and extremely helpful)and Good Old Gold (possibly superbcert and diamond brokers of florida) for princess cuts. If you decide to stay local, find some stones of the "price stats" link on PS and see what you can get online. Then, take those numbers to your local jeweler and see if he/she can match them

 

[researcher]

HGL~
Glad to see you went out to look at stones and were able to see how much more of an impact cut has on the appearance of the stone than factors like color and clarity (the fact that it's the COMBINATION of table and depth, pavilion and crown angles rather than just finding numbers that make for a large spread). I think you will now be able to find a stone in your budget that will blow everyone away!