Pricing cupcakes

[HappyAnniversary]

DD has been making cupcakes and bringing them to work, just as a nice gesture to her friends. A Co-worker wants her to make 2 dozen for Valentines Day. I figure with the butter $$, cake papers, etc the supplies are going to be just under $10. How much should she ask for them? Its a recipe from NY cupcake shop-- they are really good, homemade, etc. I think she was going to ask for $1.50 per cupcake, or about $36, but then that seems like a lot?


Also, She has been daydreaming about opening a bakery,so she''s excited about this. I think owning a bakery is a tough business, catering would be better, and only as a side to a "real job" any hints, ya''ll??

 

[April20]

Honestly, that sounds like a steal to me. It does depend on the size of them though. My favorite cupcakes in the world are from Cupcake Royale in Seattle. The "regular" sized cupcakes are $2.50 each. Their "baby" cupcakes are $1.50 each. The baby ones are like two or three bite cupcakes. Their regular ones are about twice the size of a regular at home cupcake.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 2/12/2009 8:55:35 AM
Author: April20
Honestly, that sounds like a steal to me. It does depend on the size of them though. My favorite cupcakes in the world are from Cupcake Royale in Seattle. The ''regular'' sized cupcakes are $2.50 each. Their ''baby'' cupcakes are $1.50 each. The baby ones are like two or three bite cupcakes. Their regular ones are about twice the size of a regular at home cupcake.

But a shop has a lot of overhead and sanitary regulations too...that is where the additional cost goes. I think $1-1.50 for your DD is reasonable considering she is just starting out. It''s also a great lesson for her. Have her buy her supplies, then time herself, and figure out how much per hour she makes. You could also help her research the cost of machines, utilities, and commercial properties so she can get a feel for what she wuld need to REALLY start a business and see if she is still interested!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 2/12/2009 10:02:24 AM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 2/12/2009 8:55:35 AM
Author: April20
Honestly, that sounds like a steal to me. It does depend on the size of them though. My favorite cupcakes in the world are from Cupcake Royale in Seattle. The ''regular'' sized cupcakes are $2.50 each. Their ''baby'' cupcakes are $1.50 each. The baby ones are like two or three bite cupcakes. Their regular ones are about twice the size of a regular at home cupcake.

But a shop has a lot of overhead and sanitary regulations too...that is where the additional cost goes. I think $1-1.50 for your DD is reasonable considering she is just starting out. It''s also a great lesson for her. Have her buy her supplies, then time herself, and figure out how much per hour she makes. You could also help her research the cost of machines, utilities, and commercial properties so she can get a feel for what she wuld need to REALLY start a business and see if she is still interested!

Ditto!

 

[April20]

I think my point was more that I wouldn''t hesitate to pay $1.50 as I am conditioned to pay more. The overhead costs don''t factor into my head- I''m just thinking about how much that yummy cupcake costs and do I feel if I am getting a good value for the money spent.

 

[teapot]

The cheapest good cupcakes I can find is $2.15/cupcake, but my favorite cuppies are $3/cupcake so $1.50 is quite reasonable.

 

[FrekeChild]

I would have her go work in a bakery before she starts thinking about starting her own business. Making cupcakes in a home kitchen is ENTIRELY different from working in a commercial bakeshop. Night and day different.

Feel free to ask any questions. I've had 3 years of culinary school, and worked in the industry for over 5 years. Right now, because I'm going to school full time, I make wedding/occasion cakes, but only for people I like.

ETA: BTW, she's messing with copyright laws by selling cupcakes made from a recipe from an established store. She needs to be careful with that.

 

[NovemberBride]

Date: 2/15/2009 1:43:59 AM
Author: FrekeChild
I would have her go work in a bakery before she starts thinking about starting her own business. Making cupcakes in a home kitchen is ENTIRELY different from working in a commercial bakeshop. Night and day different.


Feel free to ask any questions. I''ve had 3 years of culinary school, and worked in the industry for over 5 years. Right now, because I''m going to school full time, I make wedding/occasion cakes, but only for people I like.


ETA: BTW, she''s messing with copyright laws by selling cupcakes made from a recipe from an established store. She needs to be careful with that.

Happy Anniversary, I think $1.50 a cupcake sounds very fair considering she is just starting out. I would not want to pay someone baking at home just starting out the same amount as I would pay an established store.

Just to comment on Freke''s last post, I don''t think your daughter has anything to worry about with copyright laws. A store can''t copyright a recipe that is just a list of ingredients. They can probably copyright a recipe that has a narrative description of how to use the ingredients, but even assuming that, a copyright would only prevent your daughter from publishing the recipe, not from using it to make food.

 

[HappyAnniversary]

april20, Neatfreak, Lorelei, Teapot, FrekeChild, November Bride--First of all thank you all so much for your input. DD decided on $1.25 per cupcake. A local bakery where I bought piping bags and huge tips to frost with was selling theirs for $1.75 each. Piping frosting looks soo good and was much faster than using a knife. They came out very professional looking. I sprang for the extra stuff like the Valentines Day sprinkles that we can still use and new cupcake pans, plus I was a free cook''s helper and kitchen cleaner. I think DD found that it was not easy money, and I know I would not want to be the unpaid helper every time. I was glad she had the opportunity to try it out a bit.

FrekeChild--thanks so much for your professional input--I talked with another person at work and she said she never worked harder in her life than when she worked at a bakery at a sumer camp. I think DD will be happier being that person that brings fabulous stuff to parties and work. But it is fun to think of all the options in your like when you are young. I love to bake bread and have daydreamed about a little shop myself.

so can I ask a couple of questions about food?
1. She does not tell people it is XXXX''s recipe, does that make a diff?
2. The recipe has 2 sticks of butter, how can I make it with less butter? what can I substitute?
3. The cupcakes baked with the foil papers did not rise as well as the paper liners, is that usual?

Thanks again, I am off the eat another cupcake for breakfast, like Bill Crosby said, there flour and milk and eggs--very healthy. Plus I really don''t like frosting that well, so I take most of it off.

 

[Skippy123]

Did you see this thread? A bunch of the girls (Mara, Dixie, & Steph) make them and sell them, just in case you haven't seen this thread? i thought they talked about pricing their cupcakes too but the thread is hugs so I don't remember where, sorry.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/the-cupcake-thread.81117/

 

[FrekeChild]

As for copyrights...my experience with it has been shady, but really the food industry is a lot of areas of grey. One situation that does stand out in my mind is when I used a recipe that had come from my school--from they published cookbooks. When I decided to leave that job, the restaurant demanded those recipes and said that by using them in their establishment, they became their property and I could not NOT give them to them.

As for recipes, I have stopped giving mine out because I plan on publishing them someday, and it gets sticky if I''ve already given them out for free elsewhere.

I don''t buy the "it''s just a list of ingredients" line. Most professional baking recipes ARE just a list of ingredients because professional bakers know the methods and temperature without needing instructions like a home cook would.

If a recipe wasn''t something special, then you''d be able to find a recipe for the Ispahan and you wouldn''t have to buy cookbooks. This is why I will make changes to recipes I want to tweak and call my own.

But really, I have no idea, because I''m far from being a copyright attorney.

 

[JulieN]

Freke,

I agree that you shouldn't have had to give that restaurant the recipes, but because I don't think that just because you work there, any intellectual property of yours or anyone else's who works there suddenly becomes the property of the restaurant (unless maybe you signed something to that effect?)

You cannot copyright the list or combination of the ingredients, or the techniques. The only thing that a copyright can apply to is the original way that the author writes and presents the recipe.

As a potential author of a book of your recipes, there is no problem for you to give out your recipes, as it is fine to compile and publish them again at a later date, since the recipe is not copyright-able anyway, just the way that you write it. And since the way you write something is almost always original (if you've ever studied linguistics,) there is no problem of you being the author. You should probably take into consideration who you give them to, as in how likely they are to share your secrets with others or credit you, things like that. And if you don't want to at all, that is not a bad idea, either. I wouldn't share any recipes that were very innovative/interesting.

About the areas of grey and that you don't buy that a recipe isn't special because it's just a list of ingredients and the differences between a home cook and a professional chef, I agree with you that it is all gray there, and rules concerning the dissemination of recipes among professionals are based on social norms, rather than anything legal.

However, there is no legal problem for the friend of the OP, who is home-baker selling cupcakes from a recipe from an article in the NYT. It would be considered polite manners to credit the developer of the recipe, and not represent it as her own, when asked for the recipe. However, since she is not in the same class as the professional chef of the original recipe (is neither a colleague or a rival,) it is ok if she doesn't advertise that it is not her recipe. Just like how the police don't raid Forever 21 for knocking off something designer (of course, if you're knocking off a designer logo, which is protected, that has problems.)

For example, if I wanted to perform a Mozart violin concerto and charge money for it, I am perfectly allowed to do so. I do have to obtain the music legally, and it is normal to tell the audience it is Mozart's K.433 or whatever.

 

[FrekeChild]

Problem there...it''s a recipe from a NY cupcake shop--not the NYT.

 

[steph72276]

Date: 2/16/2009 4:18:07 PM
Author: FrekeChild
Problem there...it''s a recipe from a NY cupcake shop--not the NYT.

Maybe the famous bakery posted it''s recipe online or gave the recipe out on a television show. I know that is where I got a fabulous vanilla cupcake recipe.

 

[HappyAnniversary]

Interesting how this discussion has taken an unexpected turn. DD downloaded recipe free from recipelink.com. I''m pretty sure she won''t be making more for a "business" but the concept of recipes as a legal concern is a new one to me. There are so many wonderful cookbooks out there I wouldn''t be surprised that businesses are using recipes, wouldn''t ya think? Although it would be so easy to change just a little bit.

 

[JulieN]

BTW, care to post the recipe, HappyAnniversary?

 

[HappyAnniversary]

Here is the link:http://www.recipelink.com/cookbooks/2005/0743246616_2.html

I don''t know how to make it an automatic thingy, so you''ll have to copy and past. YUMMY!!

 

[HappyAnniversary]

Here is the link:http://www.recipelink.com/cookbooks/2005/0743246616_2.html

I don''t know how to make it an automatic thingy, so you''ll have to copy and past. YUMMY!!

Actually we have played around with changing the recipe a bit, a tad less butter and sugar.

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 2/17/2009 1:00:06 AM
Author: HappyAnniversary
Here is the link http://www.recipelink.com/cookbooks/2005/0743246616_2.html

I don''t know how to make it an automatic thingy, so you''ll have to copy and past. YUMMY!!

Actually we have played around with changing the recipe a bit, a tad less butter and sugar.

I will have to try this out!! Is your daughter going to be filling more orders?

I bet she loved having you around to help! I just found out a good friend of mine is now making cakes for friends and family as a little side biz.

 

[Mara]

re: the recipes... i have often wondered on that because i typically don't make anything 'as is' from a recipe. i make my own substitutions and by the time it's done, chances are i have added and/or substituted a few things, put more or less of something in, used an entirely diff ingredient or two etc. in the end it doesnt even resemble what i would have started with. this process may take months btw.

it's funny too because so many 'famous' recipes posted online or done on cooking shows etc seem so not realistic. like for example the sprinkles strawberry cupcakes they showed on some local show and the recipe was so basic and did not seem like it would be all that award-winning..i have made my own sberry cupcakes many a time and know how hard it is to get strawberry flavor by just using a little bit of pureed berries.

which leads me to another Q i wonder about which is, do these shows and cookbooks etc really post the ACTUAL recipe? like the magnolia cookbook and/or the magnolia recipe you find all over the web...if you were magnolia the famous bakery selling thousands of cupcakes a day, would you post the actual recipe making you those millions in a cookbook, online, on tv etc etc? i don't know.

re: pricing cupcakes..locally there are places that charge up to $4 or $6 for a large cupcake, i kid you not. most places will charge $3-4 for a large one. when it comes to 'what' to charge, have your daughter charge what SHE thinks is reasonable. baking and decorating is time-consuming work and while you don't have to do rocket science necessarily, it is not 'easy' work, it's very detail oriented.

in terms of what things are worth, don't just have her charge for supplies, her time and effort is worth something too. if people pay what she asks, it's because they think her goods are worth it. if not, then she can re-price. it'll be trial and error.

 

[Skippy123]

Happy Anni, glad your pizza dough turned out great!!!! Isn't baking fun; I love homemade pizza?! hehe eta; ops, I meant to post it in the other thread, hope you don't mind I posted my response to you here.