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Pricescope prices compared to Rap

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carbon lover

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 19, 2003
Messages
37
Hi there. This site has been a great learning tool. Thanks everyone!

I''m now trying to price out loose stones with local jewelers/dealers and I want to use prices found on Pricescope''s "Compare" section as a basis for what stones should cost.

Dealers all seem to pull out Rap Sheets when calculating prices. In general, can I assume there is a certain percentage off Rap (10%, 20%, whatever?) when checking out Pricescope''s prices?



 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
The percentage discount off of Rap will vary (sometimes even no discount, or a premium over).

Theoretically, if everyone had the same overhead and operated at the same markup, the amount of variance would be determined by how fine the "make" of the diamond is. Fine make diamonds trade at a lower discount than diamonds with poorer makes.

In general, that is the biggest determining factor in the variance of prices. The second factor of course is the markup the dealer is applying in order to cover his cost of doing business.

I think there's a good article about "the Rap trap", or something to that effect, in the diamond tutorial at the top of your menu.
 

Rook

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 4, 2002
Messages
294
Rich,

What about "the Guide" I believe it is called? It is another book of prices supposedly published by a group that compiles different vendors prices?

I saw one of those today? Ever hear of it?
 

niceice

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
1,792
"The Guide" is significantly more accurate than Rap as it is based on the selling prices of actual stones and not just what the market is supposed to be doing. The public should read http://www.niceice.com/raptrap.htm before being lulled into false comfort at the concept of discounts off Rap. Even Martin Rapaport liked the article... Whew! Good thing ;-)
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
There you go. The "RapTrap". So it's at your site, eh Robin? Or is it Todd?

Richard Drucker's "The Guide" is an excellent price guide, as well as Donald Palmieri's "Market Monitor". Both are closer to market levels than the "Rap Sheet", although the rap sheet is still the sheet of preference among diamond dealers.

They all really are just "guides" to the true value of a stone. You have to know how to interpret them correctly to arrive at the true wholesale value of a stone. They put you in the right ballpark, and then you have to find your way to home base. It's not a job for laypeople really. That would be like a neophyte trying to interpret what is and isn't a good deal on the NY Stock Exchange without the benefit of a well trained stockbroker.
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272
2 of the biggest mistakes consumers make that are turned onto the Rap sheet are

1. They do not take cut into account and think all 1ct G VS1's (or whatever ct/clarity/color they are looking for) should be priced the same. (while reality is that diamonds on the market can vary from more than 40% below to 15% above depending on cut and brand). I love to demonstrate these differences to our clients and show them why certain diamonds are discounted deeper than others.
2. Most consumers are not aware that diamonds in the rarer sizes (ie. .90ct-.99ct, 1.20ct-1.49ct, 1.70-1.99ct, 2.70-2.99ct) will not be traded at the same discounts than diamonds in the more common sizes (1.00ct-1.19ct, 1.50-1.69ct, etc.)

Most consumers who learn about it and do not learn the other facts they should know, go on a quest to find the "cheapest or most discounted" stone they can find not realizing they'll get the most liberally graded (usually EGL or IGI), nastiest cut stone within it's grading and in the end wind up purchasing not only the cheapest stone but the ugliest stone within it's clarity/color grade.

Time after time after time this has been my experience in the over 20 years I've been purchasing and appraising diamonds.

Rhino
 

trichrome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2002
Messages
397
I agree with you...
However, if as a customer you were knowing that you were paying Rap x 2.5 for a
stone...
Well, I think it's time to consider another stone.... unless this stone is so unique
that you wanna pay the price...


Trichrome.
 

Kessar

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
17
so branded stones will be higher than RAP, which stones will be at RAP? - an ideal cut stone that scores great on the HCA (all excellents) and looks gorgeous, should one expect to get a % off RAP or should they just expect to pay RAP?
 

trichrome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2002
Messages
397
SuperbCert are around 5% off Rap. For this price, I think for the customer it's a good
deal.

I have nothing to do with this company and Barry who owns it by the way.

Trichrome.
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272
haha... AGREED TRICHROME!!! If things seem too wacky then it's time to either question why and get the justification (if any) or get you're running shoes on.
 

mdx

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 1, 2002
Messages
570
G'Day Carbon Lover

The advice you are getting in this thread is spot on.

You can get yourself into a lot of trouble trying to compare prices using Rap.


/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>


The Rap prices are essentially a trade tool that represents a starting point for trade price negotiation.


From a known set of discounts from a manufacture or dealer we apply further discounts or premiums usually based on deviations from what we determine to be a high quality desirable and saleable stone.


/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>


Definitely not for consumers to try.

The prices of actual diamonds like those offered by the vendors on this site are a much better guideline.

Wayne
Melbourne Diamond Exchange Ltd

 
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