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Price Per Carat for Pink Tourmaline and Blue Spinel?

Discussion in 'Colored Gemstones' started by Dragon28, Jun 2, 2018.

  1. Dragon28
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    by Dragon28 » Jun 2, 2018
    What is typically the average price per carat of Pink Tourmaline? There is one I really want for my collection and I want to know if it would be a good price?

    According to the seller, it is flawless, just about 2.5 carats, round cut with good symmetry.

    There's also a Deep/Rich-colored Blue Spinel that is almost 3.5 carats, seller says is flawless, and is also round cut with good symmetry. I don't have any blue gemstones in my collection yet and I'd love to get that Blue Spinel as my first stone also so I would also like to know the average price per carat for Blue Spinel.
     
    


    


  2. Bron357
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    by Bron357 » Jun 2, 2018
    You just want to be sure the seller is reputable. Synthetic Spinel has been around for 100 years and while chemically identical to natural Spinel, it is man made and worth only a few dollars.
    It is everywhere, and a lot of sellers are less than honest.
    As with any natural gems colour and size are two main price factors. A 2 carat Gem will cost more than twice as much as a 1 carat gem. Cobalt blue spinels are much more expensive than paler Spinel.
    For eg Wild fish gems has two 3 carat odd spinels for sale. Both natural and both untreated. One is $1,200, the other is $4,500. The price difference is the colour.
    Tourmaline isn’t man made but that doesn’t stop some people from “passing off” other gems or synthetics as Tourmaline. That’s unlikely, but it happens. It’s less expensive than Spinel, so around $500 or so for a 2.5 carat one.
     
  3. Arkteia
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    by Arkteia » Jun 2, 2018
    I once bought a pink 6-ct African unheated tourmaline for $ 800, the show was closing. A nice vendor who was selling her stone, also around 4 ct, as I remember, for $ 900 or something like it. I love the cut on her stone. https://www.etsy.com/listing/593939037/nigerian-pink-tourmaline?ref=shop_home_active_18

    As to spinel... I brought one for a new project to a jeweler. Specifically because it is super clean, he wants it to be certified. (I think it is natural). So I agree with @Bron357 , super clean and super beautiful spinels are probably not super cheap.

    Among blue spinels, very few have "that" color. Cobalt Vietnamese are "that", but expensive, of course. Of the other stones, I like what Jason Brim is selling.
    https://gemsglorious.com/products/3-63-ct-color-change-cobalt-blue-spinel?variant=7156307394619

    P.S. Jason's prices are very good. Maybe ask him about a pink tourmaline? Just an idea.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
  4. Dragon28
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    by Dragon28 » Jun 3, 2018
    Here are the videos of the two gems I am considering buying. I had a friend upload them to youtube.

    Pink Tourmaline


    Blue Spinel


    What do you think is a good price for the Blue Spinel? If the dealer has a price of $900 for the Blue Spinel is that too good to be true or a good deal? The dealer for both of the gems is based is in Thailand.
     
    


    


  5. pwsg07
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    by pwsg07 » Jun 3, 2018
    For pink tourmaline I am guessing the price should be between $100 per carat to $200 per carat. But this is a medium light pink, the price should be lower
     
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  6. Dragon28
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    by Dragon28 » Jun 3, 2018
    So how much should I pay for that Pink Tourmaline in the video. It is just under 2.5 carats. Would $500 be a fair price? They said that it is flawless and based on the symmetry it has an excellent cut.
     
  7. pwsg07
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    by pwsg07 » Jun 3, 2018
    I am not too sure about the price since this is a flawless and well cut stone. But the colour is not too difficult to find. Is this the colour you want?
     
  8. Dragon28
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    by Dragon28 » Jun 3, 2018
    I want a true pink color. I want to own a True Pink gemstone and this Tourmaline appears to offer that. A nice pink color is fine with me. I know the vivid pink, neon pink, and bubblegum pink stones are rare and probably too expensive for my current budget.

    I already have purplish pink Spinel and a purplish pink Mahenge Garnet. So I'm after a true Pink gemstone and this pink Tourmaline appears to be a true Pink. It isn't vivid, neon, or bubblegum pink but it does appear to be a true pink and a decent saturation of pink color.
     
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  9. Arkteia
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    by Arkteia » Jun 3, 2018
    Both stones are very well cut. My 6-ct pink has exactly the same cut only I bought it as “USA-cut”. Is stone you are considering a color-changer? Most tourmalines change colors depending on the light, so “true pink” is relative. There are some beautiful pink ones that don’t, but I suspect they are heated.

    They said to you it was flawless. Did you ask about the heat treatment?
     
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  10. Dragon28
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    by Dragon28 » Jun 3, 2018
    The seller has in the description that both stones are unheated.

    They don't say anything about color changing but I did ask if it was also pink in daylight and they said it was also pink in daylight.
     
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  11. Arkteia
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    by Arkteia » Jun 3, 2018
    I suspect you like the cut (round, really very nice). Many vendors take pictures in UV or Ott lamp light, so the stones look different IRL. I would try to go with the lower end of what pwsgO7 has mentioned.
     
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  12. Dragon28
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    by Dragon28 » Jun 3, 2018
    Yes, Round is my most favorite cut. I am thinking of buying that pink Tourmaline today.
     
  13. Anne111
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    by Anne111 » Jun 4, 2018
    Seriously? That would make a gem look really different. Will such a vendor not have a 100% return quote? Or 80%? How can that work?
     
  14. qubitasaurus
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  15. Arkteia
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    by Arkteia » Jun 4, 2018
    Everyone who I purchased from had absolutely 100% return quotes. Like, not like, color same, color different... I purchased from some cutters in Thailand, local and British, and it was all totally safe. We do have a thread about vendors pics vs original stones, though, so not everything always matches.

    Except for one guy, local, not overseas, whose amethyst I once snatched. I did not like the stone but did not want to hurt his feelings either so I said the stone was OK, but I had to undergo surgery (it was true) and was not into stones. He said, “if there is nothing wrong with the stone, I am not going to take it because I shall not ever sell it again at such a price”. It was within 7 days of purchase. But he is in US, and it was once, only one time, one per all vendors I bought from. So I can say that our vendors recommended by PS are very safe.
     
    


    


  16. Dragon28
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    by Dragon28 » Jun 7, 2018
    I purchased the Pink Tourmaline. I ended up paying a little more than $200 per carat. It will be awhile before it arrives in the mail.

    I also want to get the Blue Spinel before someone else buys it. The dealer charges wholesale prices. Do you think $275 per carat for the Blue Spinel is a good price? I don't have any blue stones yet and I love the color and cut. The seller says its a flawless Tanzanian-mined Blue Spinel.
     
  17. Frost
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    by Frost » Jun 8, 2018
    Only assuming the spinel lights up more than it does in the video (in which it truly looks to dark to be worth buying at all), it's worth what's asked for it, yes.
    It also depends on what sort of light was used to create that video - if it was a daylight calibrated light then WYSIWYG. If not, in all likelihood the stone looks more drab/washed out than it does in real life as dimmer spinels really suffer under unoptimised artificial light.
    It's a pretty typical price for that type of material - dim spinel with a blackish/greenish secondary - and cutting does add value. It's inescapable if you're cutting something into a pointy culet and a good overall cut because you lose a lot of weight as opposed to more conventional step pavilion cuts so that figures in. And it is a good cut for sure.

    Also wanted to chime in on tourmalines. Top of the line pinks can and do sell for more than $200-300 per carat in one carat sizes. $400/ct. if precision cut and vivid/hot pink (medium dark tone, zero salmon-ish orange secondary tones and completely clean) is sellable.
     
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  18. Dragon28
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    by Dragon28 » Jun 9, 2018
    I will ask the dealer what light source was used in the video of the Blue Spinel. If it looks too dark to be good I might not buy it but it does appear to have an excellent cut and clarity.

    I think I got a good deal on the Pink Tourmaline if the color turns out to be as beautiful as it was in the video.
     
  19. chrono
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    by chrono » Jun 9, 2018
    Cut is excellent, colour not so. I detect quite a bit of orange in the tourmaline and the spinel seems very dark. Shouldn’t cost much at all per ct. What is the return policy like? Will it be a hassle to return (international and insurance issues, restocking fee, etc)?
     
  20. LJsapphire
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    by LJsapphire » Jun 9, 2018
    I was offered a blue asscher cut spinel - 4.23 carats - they were asking $6000. (in gbp over £1000/ct)

    I'm looking for purple so its no good for me but the price seemed high.
    I went into a B&M store near me and saw a beautiful 4.47 ct violet spinel - which was £495 + VAT = £594 per carat. I thought that was a lot (but it was the first spinel I had seen IRL and still not educated)
     
  21. Dragon28
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    by Dragon28 » Jun 9, 2018
    The dealer got back to me and said the light source in the video of the Blue Spinel was from a daylight lamp.
     
  22. Frost
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    by Frost » Jun 11, 2018
    It depends on the lamp... Brick and mortar 'daylight lamps' are useless for gemstones in most cases. But there are on the other hand daylight calibrated lamps formulated for the gem trade which do show many stones pretty accurately most of the time (none show everything accurately all the time, but that's why people need to edit to make their media true to daylight).

    I was trying to bite my tongue not to tell you what others have already echoed in this thread, that it's dark (compared to what most of us consider 'ideal' colors)... So I'll settle for 'it may look dim'... Perhaps you have different preferences but it's true that this type of spinel is not something that most people would consider a particularly good example for that color.
    Try asking the person to just take the stone out into the shade or into some indirect daylight and take a simple fast video of it. It takes no time at all and it settles the whole 'is the lamp good or not' debate. Then they can describe you the color from there and tell you how it differs on the video from what their eyes see.
     
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  23. Gemobsessed
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    by Gemobsessed » Jun 12, 2018
    This kind of photography is highly enhanced to be honest and both colours don’t look as nice as the colours usually available easily in both kinds of gems. I’m also sure I know who the seller is and have bought before. Sorry I hate being so negative but with the kind of budget you have I really feel you can do better. I’d keep looking. I’ve bought bright pink spinels at lower rates than this pink Tourmaline. Have you tried loupetroop ? I saw lovely blue spinel on it a while back.
     
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  24. Dragon28
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    by Dragon28 » Jun 12, 2018
    It does appear dark and would probably be more dark than blue without light shining on it. A more blue color would be ideal but the cut is excellent. I think you're right that it's not worth the price the dealer is asking for it.

    Can anyone show me an example of a better color Blue Spinel with an excellent cut, preferably round cut or emerald cut?

    I'd also accept a Blue Tourmaline with an excellent cut in a round shape or emerald shape.
    I prefer gems with a minimum VVS clarity and I usually buy gems with a clarity of IF or FL.

    I also do not want to buy Heat-Treated Blue Spinel or Blue Tourmaline.
     
  25. voce
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    by voce » Jun 13, 2018
    All spinel are unheated, since heat does not improve a spinel at all.

    Tourmalines that have been heat treated over low temperatures cannot be detected as such, not even by professional gemological labs. As such, should you really care whether a tourmaline is heat treated or not?

    If you are dead set on buying an unheated gem, just buy spinel.

    As for some examples, I think these spinels have better color than the one you posted:
    https://www.wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/untreated_african_spinel_1_11/11030/13306
    https://www.finewatergems.com/store/p194/6.02_ct_Color-change_Spinel.html

    Personally, I prefer the Finewater spinel, but I can't afford it, not yet.
     
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  26. Frost
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    by Frost » Jun 13, 2018
    I can't show you an example of a better one available for sale, but regarding color and since this thread discussed that, what's generally considered best is a Vietnamese blue similar to this:
    https://www.gia.edu/images/SP15-Chauvire-fig13-179104-636x358.jpg

    They are very rare, very pricey and usually very small. But they glow blue. So, failing that; other options include equally very rare and a bit less but still pricey gems from Sri Lanka and Madagascar. Both countries normally produce 'blue' spinels just like the one in your original video, but extremely rarely produce something which looks more like medium sapphires. Using a bunch of synthetics here for good color examples:

    https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HT1P48hFTxaXXagOFbXd/200268049/HT1P48hFTxaXXagOFbXd.jpg

    Classic Vietnam is #113, very high quality Sri Lanka/Mada is #107/#109/#119, more common variants are #104, #108, #114, #120.

    The photo shows synthetics but all of these colors do exist in nature too (perhaps #112 is an exception).

    While generally true and this really holds water 99.999% of the time, to play the devil's advocate I'd just point out this is not always the case. Rarely, spinels are heated in an attempt to improve their colors (whether those succeeded or not is a different matter, mostly not at all) and some labs check whether they are heated or not for reports.
    Also, several years ago some "cobalt blue" material was discovered to be diffused. I don't think that practice caught on either since the stones were really ugly even after beryllium, but oh well, just to mention it.

    Some further info if anyone wants to read:
    http://gemresearch.ch/cobalt-diffusion-spinel/
    http://gemresearch.ch/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/2015-05-Spinel-Heat-Treatment.pdf
    http://www.giathai.net/pdf/Heated_spinel_Identification_at_April_02_2009.pdf

    I don't think I'd be too concerned about all of this unless buying something crazily rare and pricey. Heated and/or funny stuff spinels are so rare you'd probably have to try hard to even get one.
     

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