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Price for a Hearts on Fire Diamond

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jstbrd

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 14, 2003
Messages
6
Hello,

I am looking at buying an engagement ring for my girlfriend and found a hearts on fire diamond at a local jeweler that I am thinking of buying. I was wondering if you could tell me if this is a good price or if there are any other options I should consider.

.787CT G/SI1
Dream cut
NO CULET
TABLE 57%
DEP. 65.1%
SYM. EXCELLET
6.15 X 5.24 X 3.71

Thanks in advance,
JstBrd
 

RockDoc

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
2,509
I think you could do a lot better with internet vendors.

Plenty of equally nice H&A stones at better prices.

Rockdoc
 

texas_26

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 10, 2003
Messages
24
I think your measurements may be off on the diameter, but none the less, I agree, you can find larger diamond for a lesser price through the pricescope search engine.

John
 

jstbrd

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 14, 2003
Messages
6
The measurements I provided are what the jeweler provided. You say do a search to find something cheaper but I was wondering what a good deal on this would be. Is it quite a bit over what should b paid? And why do u think the measurements r off? Is something unusual?

Thanks,
JstBrd
 

robbonds

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Messages
20
buy off the internet!! no sales tax...

i just bought a great stone from usacerteddiamonds.com

ask for ashley
 

texas_26

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 10, 2003
Messages
24
jstbrd -

I would *guess* the actual measurements are 6.15 X 6.24 X 3.71. Not 6.24. On top of that the depth seems deep for the table size. You can do better for the price for sure.

I ran a quick scan, and Triple IDEAL H&A stones in that color, clarity and carat are going for ~3000-3500.

Is it Christian Bernard you are shopping at? That's where I started with their hearts on fire :). Came here and larger diamonds cheaper.

John
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Dream cut diamonds are not like round brilliants. HOF has both round brilliants and their Dream Cut which is more like a square round...princess similar with rounded edges. It's very beautiful. I don't know much about the proper specs of Dream cuts...but I would estimate that they are not completely similar to round brilliants, so comparing them to the standards for RB's (e.g. depth under 62%) would not be feasible I would assume.

HOF are beautiful stones, from what I have *heard* you cannot go wrong with the CUT of these stones, but they carry a steep markup. That said, this stone seems to be VERY resonably priced. We were looking at a .80c G, VS2 HOF Dream diamond that was priced out for us at $7500. The 1c Dream diamond was around $10k for a G, VS2 which was pretty pricey. So your specs and pricing seems pretty good considering the normal markup.

This is interesting to me because we were told by the HOF seller that HOF sets the pricing and the jewelers cannot deviate. But I see a large difference in your stone pricing and ours.

In the end we went with a round brilliant, but both my boyfriend and I had our breath literally taken away by the gorgeous brilliance of the Dream stone, and to this day I have not seen another that can compare. But maybe it was just the jeweler lighting. :devil:

I don't know if anyone familiar with the Dream cut can comment..as I only know what we learned while visiting with the jeweler and checking out the HOF site and seeing the stones in person. Good luck! :)
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
View more about the Dream diamond here:

http://www.ellisfinejewelers.com/dream.html

I have to say that even though I am aware of the branding and marketing slathered all over these...the one we saw in the store was stunning. She also showed us 3 of them in a 3 stone setting and I about fainted. You could literally cause car accidents on the street with 3 of these stones in one ring!!!
 

texas_26

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 10, 2003
Messages
24
Mara! You are correct. I misread his post. I saw hearts on fire, and thought he was looking at round brilliant like I was with those diamonds! I didn't realize he was looking at the dream series. ugh. My stupid mistake. And it isn't even the middle of January yet.. ugh... :loopy:

Sorry for the confusion and misinformation. Honest mistake, I just misread the post.
 

jstbrd

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 14, 2003
Messages
6
Thanks for all of your help so far. The diamond was beautiful and very bright. So, given that this is a DREAM cut HOF diamond is it a descent deal or is there something better I could find? I really like the Dream cut and would like something similair.


Thanks for all of your help!
 

jknapper

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Messages
32
From a HOF owner... and for what its worth...

I got a HOF diamond, and was lucky - the angles, depth, ect we're excellent. It scored a .8 on the HCA. Not the best, but certainly very good. The diamond is beautiful - it is a round, not the dream cut. However, IF I had to do it again... I would seriously consider buying off the internet. I feel I did pay for the name. Also, if you go to the HOF website you can see details of HOF diamonds currently for sale, and from what I can tell, some of them don't seem to have "perfect" angles/depth/ect based on the TIC cut and if you run the numbers on HCA, they aren't the best. In the end, I am happy with HOF, I did buy it from a local jeweler, so I can run in there and be welcomed because I spent a boat load of money, and they are happy to clean, check whatever jewelry I bring in. I personally would feel awkward taking a diamond to a store where I did not buy it.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
For a DREAM Hearts on Fire, the price you have is EXCELLENT compared to what we were quoted when we looked at them. Keep in mind that the other posters are discussing round diamonds, not the Dream cut, which are not available online so readily as the round cut diamonds are. If you were considering a round HOF I too would suggest to shop online and compare. But since you are considering the non-standard Dream cut, if this is what you really want..then you have a GREAT price. If you love the diamond, this price seems a good one. Though I would still try to get one of the experts or someone who knew more about non-standard cuts to weigh in a bit on the depth, etc. info that you gave on this cut. Since most of us consumers did our research on the round brilliants, we don't have too much to offer in the way of expert advice on the Dream cut or a non-round. All I can tell you is that it seems you have an excellent price on the table for a highly-regarded 'brand' of stone.

Hope that helps..good luck!
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Oh and also almost forgot. Last nite while lulling my busy mind into sleep, I remembered that when we looked at the Dream HOF's..the saleslady told us a very interesting thing. I wanted at least a 1c diamond (these were the first ones I'd looked at so I was clueless and all I knew was I wanted a specific size/look), but the ones she was showing us, the .80c or similar were more in our original price range than the 1c Dream cuts. I really loved the look of the stone, but was a little distressed about the size not being a 1c, being a silly girl and all. She noted that the HOF stones (don't recall if it was just Dream or the RB's too), were cut so perfectly and symmetrical that they got rid of any excess weight on the bottom of the stone (I assume she meant depth or pavilion?)...so that the .80c we were looking at would look more like a 1c in diameter. We then compared a 1c regular round brilliance and the Dream did in fact look almost the same. Could be also the square round look which gives it more diameter in the 'square' area, but it was an interesting note. I had almost completely forgotten this.

So what she was basically trying to convey to us was that we weren't paying for extra 'dead' diamond weight, but for exactly what we saw up top.
Have you compared the Dream to a regular round 1c brilliant (not HOF)? Do you see a size difference between the .787 and a 1c round?
 

jstbrd

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 14, 2003
Messages
6
Yes,

I compared the size. It was very comprable and looked much brighter even though the 1c was an F. So I think I will probably go w/this, unless someone has a great suggestion on how to go a better route. It sounds like it is a good price and I am getting my moneys worth(although tax sux). One last question you might b able to help me w/is the setting. I was thinking of just getting something simple as to not disract from the diamond and allow for any selection of wedding band.....is this the route to go?

Thank you all soooo much,
JstBrd
 

student

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
167
It might be worth comparing some other square diamonds such as the Regent Cut at goodoldgold.com, the Spring Cut at whiteflash.com, and the princess cuts at superbcert.com. Any of these should be nice, and substantially cheaper than Hearts on Fire. I wanted a round brilliant and got an A Cut Above from Whiteflash for half the price of a Hearts on Fire.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Definitely compare..but keep in mind that the princess cuts are not the same as the Dream diamonds. I'm not a fan of princess cuts, too square and blocky, but the Dreams were like the perfect mix of a square and round. I'm not too familiar with the Regent, Spring etc..but definitely check them out on the sites that Student noted. However..the pricing you have been quoted for this .787c Dream is about 2500 less than we were quoted, so I don't know if the pricing was mis-quoted to us or you just are getting a great deal! I'd be interested in the vendors answer if you do ask him why there might be such a large price difference? I thought HOF were like 8Star in that they can't deviate from pricing?

On your setting question, I would suggest a 4 prong solitaire if you are interested in something very simple that will work with many band styles. The 4 prong will showcase the diamond the best. Would also suggest to get thinner rather than thicker prongs, as this definitely showcases the stone the best, but be sure that they are thick enough for everyday wear. Your jeweler might be able to help with suggestions on this. The setting is really a preference, but with a basic solitaire, you can go more elaborate on the wedding band (e.g. eternity) and not go overboard.

Good luck!
If you get the Dream stone..try to post a picture here after the ring is set, I'd be interested in seeing how it looks!!
 

jstbrd

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 14, 2003
Messages
6
I have been looking around online and have see some regent cuts. Do these compare well to the hearts on fire? I have noticed they r somewhat cheaper and wondered how there brightness compares to the HoF. Any info would b appreciated.

Thanks,
JstBrd
 

ccuheartnurse

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 22, 2002
Messages
1,733
Hi There,
What about a Flanders cut? I have often heard this cut referred to as a rounded square. I have never seen any in person but perhaps the vendors/consumers here help you with that. I went non-branded on my stone. I just found there was a better value going that route. As a side note though, I went with Scott Kay for my setting for the same reason. I found it at a reasonable price & there is some comfort to trying it on & buying it as is instead of worrying about your custom peice turning out exactly like you have anticipated. I had my last ring custom made & I was not pleased with its outcome so for me I would rather pay a few hundred more for peace of mind.
I've include a pic of my setting. There's a different pic of it on scottkay.com under "wedding sets". I too wanted primarily a solitair to not distract from my stone, but I also wanted a bit of something special. I found it in my ring. The stones in the bar look much bigger than they really are. The total wt. is only 29pts so really, not huge at all. Good luck with what you decide to get.


Judy
:)

0057656_r_lg.jpg
 

p5r799

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 11, 2003
Messages
54
Can you suggest some places to buy the dream cut diamonds for a better price like you have suggested in your email?
 

p5r799

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 11, 2003
Messages
54
I'm also trying to buy a good dream cut diamond for a great price. Where did you find yours? And any advise for me? We've looked at the most beautiful dream diamonds at Christian Bernard and Elara diamonds at Fink's jeweler. I would appreciate any feed back.
 

Kate

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2003
Messages
6
Hi. Can someone tell me what would the fair price range be for the following HEarts on Fire diamond. Round brilliant.
6.48- 6.53 times 3.99mm
1.023 c
Colour AGS 1.5 G,
clarity 5 SI1

Thankyou.
 

maxjr

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 21, 2003
Messages
13

Hello,


I was looking for a HOF "Dream" Diamond, and here are some prices I was quoted by a jeweler. Due to the HOF price control, I would guess most other jewelers would quote similar per carat prices. Just something to use as a comparison if you are in a similar situation.


Regards,
Max
Color Clarity Price per Carat (0.5ct - 0.8ct range)
D VS1 $ 9,900.22
D VS2 $ 9,262.75
E VVS1 $10,671.41
E VVS2 $ 9,914.74
E VS1 $ 9,338.93
E VS2 $ 8,930.45
E SI1 $ 7,640.58
F IF $10,647.21
F VVS1 $ 9,901.06
F VVS2 $ 9,306.51
F VS1 $ 8,878.49
F VS2 $ 8,255.10
G IF $ 9,715.24
G VVS1 $ 8,829.80
G VVS2 $ 8,504.86
G VS1 $ 8,094.25
G SI1 $ 8,493.60
G SI2 $ 7,715.66
H VS2 $ 8,494.60
I VVS1 $ 8,431.10
I VVS2 $ 8,047.46
I VS1 $ 7,827.66
I VS2 $ 7,523.24
I SI2 $ 6,603.11
J VVS1 $ 7,004.35
J VS1 $ 6,893.99
 

Kate

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2003
Messages
6
Thanks. My husband was sold a 1.023 carat hearts on fire diamond, round brilliant. G 5 S1I for $17995

Does anyone know if this is above the recommended price range the HOF company recommends and if so can something be done about it. He has only paid 50%.

Thanks.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Oh my gosh what a ripoff!! We were quoted a 1c G SI1 for $10k....nowhere near $17k. Did he shop around at other HOF retailers before buying? Ridiculous! Good luck--stop that transaction in its tracks NOW.
 

Hest88

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Messages
4,357
----------------
On 7/22/2003 5:42
1 PM Kate wrote:
My husband was sold a 1.023 carat hearts on fire diamond, round brilliant. G 5 S1I for $17995
----------------
$17...Ack, choke, gasp!!!


I wonder if HoF has guidelines as to how much vendors can mark-up their stones. If so, then they might be unhappy to have a distributor break the rules. If not, though, I don't see any legal reason why a jeweler can't mark the thing up as much as he wants. What happens if your husband decides not to buy the diamond?
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
What we were told by the HOF retailer we visited was that HOF dictates what the stones can sell for...probably a small range of $$ depending on your locale. So I bet that is a violation....but dunno for sure.
 

Kate

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2003
Messages
6
Well there is a little more to the story.
We found out it was way over priced compared to other 1c dimaonds in their store at a later date and the store admitted there had been a "labelling mistake" and said they would drop the price to 12-13k after we paid another 2000. This was all verbal.
My husband could not afford to at the time so stopped making payments a few months ago and requested that we should be able to return the diamond for a refund since there had been a mistake. They refused and sent a letter stating they are about to sue us for what we still owe on the full 17995 plus late fees. We have paid $9500 and really just want to return the diamond or if we cant then think they should value it very conservatively for us due to the mistake they made. WE have no income at the moment. IT does not appear 13000 for a 1.023 diamond is very conservative. What is a conservative price? WE wonder what our legal stand is and if we need a lawyer to handle this .If 17995 for 1.023 c is clearly over the HOF price range then it will be easier for us if we have to go to court. Any freindly lawyers out there?
THanks.
 

Hest88

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Messages
4,357
Kate, can you contact Hearts on Fire directly to confirm their pricing policies? That way you can figure out exactly how much they should charge you and whether or not the new price is still against policy.

Do you have the diamond in your possession or do they still have it pending final payment?
 

rbjd

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 4, 2003
Messages
154
Kate

Is there a written contract? Did you sign any agreements? What are the written terms (prices, dates, etc.) of any paperwork you were given? How was the price negotiated? Are there witnesses to any of the price negotiations? Who has possession of the diamond?
 
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