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Price differential for a new vs. pre-owned diamond

stallionfromnd

Rough_Rock
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Jun 6, 2011
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4
i'm still early in the search - is there a rule of thumb for how much less a "pre-owned" / "estate" / "used" diamond would cost versus a "new" stone of the same quality across all key stats? 10% less? more?

i'd get it appriased before buying regardless - so it really what is the premium for new vs. used.

thanks!
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Dec 17, 2008
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27,335
I think the price difference usually depends on who you are buying the stone from. Pawn shop, individual, antique/estate
store, ebay will all be different. The usual going rate is 30-50% of the value of the stone.
 

Haven

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13,166
tyty333|1307744024|2942879 said:
I think the price difference usually depends on who you are buying the stone from. Pawn shop, individual, antique/estate
store, ebay will all be different. The usual going rate is 30-50% of the value of the stone.
I agree.

Are you purchasing this stone from an individual? Then I would expect to pay 30-50% of the value of the stone.
Are you purchasing from a jeweler? Then that is an entirely different story.
I know nothing about pawn shops, so I'm no help there. I imagine the going rate at a pawn shop would be much closer to the 30-50% you see when purchasing from an individual.
 

suchende

Brilliant_Rock
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Apr 14, 2008
Messages
1,002
When you guys say 30-50% of the price, which price do you mean? The appraisal price?

Someone is selling a Brian Gavin re-cut that I am very very interested in, but the asking price seems to be 90-100% of a Brian Gavin new stone. I don't really know what to think about that.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
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suchende|1307756776|2943005 said:
When you guys say 30-50% of the price, which price do you mean? The appraisal price?

Someone is selling a Brian Gavin re-cut that I am very very interested in, but the asking price seems to be 90-100% of a Brian Gavin new stone. I don't really know what to think about that.
They can ASK whatever they want.

As I recall, Brian has some sort of buyback program so if your seller was an original customer of his, he'll simply buy back the stone based on some formula. It's fast and easy and I'm sure it's explained on his website. I don't know what the rules are but your seller has surely already checked out this option. Obviously, if they wanted that price or less, they simply would sell it to him and this deal would be done already. You would never have seen it. That sets the minimum and the reason it's still on the table is because they want more. Similarly, if you wanted to pay Brian's price, there would be no reason for you to consider a 3rd party seller. You would simply buy one and they would never have met you. That sets the top price. Between those two is a negotiation. :bigsmile:
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
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9,150
Haven|1307745496|2942894 said:
tyty333|1307744024|2942879 said:
I think the price difference usually depends on who you are buying the stone from. Pawn shop, individual, antique/estate
store, ebay will all be different. The usual going rate is 30-50% of the value of the stone.
I agree.

Are you purchasing this stone from an individual? Then I would expect to pay 30-50% of the value of the stone.
Are you purchasing from a jeweler? Then that is an entirely different story.
I know nothing about pawn shops, so I'm no help there. I imagine the going rate at a pawn shop would be much closer to the 30-50% you see when purchasing from an individual.
Pawn shops are an interesting business. At the end of the day, the only difference between them and a jewelry store is décor. They can charge whatever they want, and they try and get as much as they can. They routinely stock the cases with ‘new’ merchandise because the junk that people sell them isn’t necessarily what their shoppers want to buy and visa versa. The solution is to buy whatever you can, and fill the cases with whatever sells. If those two groups overlap, great. If not, so be it. Buy supplemental inventory from other sources along side with the ‘regular’ jewelers so that you’ve got the right goods available when a shopper arrives. Mostly they promote themselves as cheap places to buy things, and sometimes that's true, but it's not an inherent part of the business model and I routinely see things purchased from pawn shops that are no bargain. Like traditional jewelers and websites, each dealer and each deal needs to be evaluated on it's own merits (or lack thereof)
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Brian does not offer trade-ins on re-cuts as far as I know because he tells you up front that the goal is to improve the stone as much as possible, but there is no way to guarantee H&A, signature stone outcome. If the stone is re-certified and now is AGS0 and can be proven to be H&A, then and only then could I see the price being close to his new signature stones. However, I'd buy new from Brian before I'd take a < 10% discount because Brian has a trade-in policy and the re-cut probably doesn't.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
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If it's not branded by Brian then the fact that he cut it is largely irrelevant to nearly every potential buyer. It is what it is. AGS, H&A or whatever. The premise remains the same. Brian (and other dealers) surely WILL agree to buy it, it's just a matter of setting the price. I agree that the difference is surely going to be more than a 10% discount off the retail prices he's charging for his branded goods but that's between him and the seller. Wherever that lands, THAT'S the bottom level for the negotiation at hand.
 

oldminer

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In theory, a used diamond is exactly the same value as a new one of the same cut, color, clarity weight and shape. In reality, the price is not always the same on every new or used diamond. One might find a bargain in a diamond that a consumer wished to sell, but once a used diamond is in the hands of a regular retail seller, it becomes as good as new so long as it is in perfect condition. Sometimes a dealer will have a diamond that has been in inventory way too long and the price is reduced to get it sold. Usually this is a diamond that is not as desirable a shape or quality combination not in demand, but it could be any diamond a dealer wanted to promote.

Remember, all natural mined diamonds are very, very old. Their newness revolves around the idea that recent cutting has been done, but a stone that was cut twenty years ago can still be completely new. A stone cut 100 years ago that was bought used and recut to a superb modern cut stone last week can be sold as new or used depending on how the seller wishes to strategize the marketing.

Consumers can't get the price of a new stone if they want to sell the one diamond they own. They will take a large hit to the wallet to get a stone sold and get paid. Well financed dealers are not in the same position as consumers and while they will by "low" they do not necessarily need to sell "low" too. THey can if they wish, but they are not forced to charge less than market value.
 

suchende

Brilliant_Rock
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denverappraiser|1307801695|2943237 said:
If it's not branded by Brian then the fact that he cut it is largely irrelevant to nearly every potential buyer. It is what it is. AGS, H&A or whatever. The premise remains the same. Brian (and other dealers) surely WILL agree to buy it, it's just a matter of setting the price. I agree that the difference is surely going to be more than a 10% discount off the retail prices he's charging for his branded goods but that's between him and the seller. Wherever that lands, THAT'S the bottom level for the negotiation at hand.
Since it's an emerald cut, the considerations are a bit different. If Brian had never touched the thing, I would be looking at it's dimensions, table size, etc. which are all what I was hoping to find, but the price doesn't seem fair to me, since it's not close to what I would get back if I were to re-sell it.
 

denverappraiser

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suchende|1307811272|2943321 said:
denverappraiser|1307801695|2943237 said:
If it's not branded by Brian then the fact that he cut it is largely irrelevant to nearly every potential buyer. It is what it is. AGS, H&A or whatever. The premise remains the same. Brian (and other dealers) surely WILL agree to buy it, it's just a matter of setting the price. I agree that the difference is surely going to be more than a 10% discount off the retail prices he's charging for his branded goods but that's between him and the seller. Wherever that lands, THAT'S the bottom level for the negotiation at hand.
Since it's an emerald cut, the considerations are a bit different. If Brian had never touched the thing, I would be looking at it's dimensions, table size, etc. which are all what I was hoping to find, but the price doesn't seem fair to me, since it's not close to what I would get back if I were to re-sell it.

In a very large part, the difference in 'value' of things has to do with market selection and the skill of the seller. That is to say, some people are a lot better at this than others and some have better access to markets than others. This isn't just about diamonds, it's the same for art, businesses, patent rights, houses, beanie babies, lemonaide and everything else. Talent or lack thereof on the part of the seller (or you) is NOT a gemological property and, if the question you're asking is whether you will be able to sell a particular stone for more or less than someone else, that's the only variable at play.
 

suchende

Brilliant_Rock
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That's a good point, Neil. But then, if I were to re-sell it, I would probably do it through the same venue that this person has, and would be marketing to similar buyers.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
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Age is a funny thing in the diamond business. People routinely ask how old I think their diamond is and my short answer is 200 Million years. That may seem flippant but it’s basically correct. How long ago someone dug it out of the ground, when someone most recently cut it, etc. are things that don’t really have a test. You can do it with the paper trail if there is one and you can get some clues from the cutting style but, for example, the folks at GoodOldGold are proudly cutting brand new ‘Old Mine’ cut diamonds (and they’re lovely by the way. They call them August Vintage and these are some very cool Old Miners). There are exceptions to every rule and there is no scientific test for age. Nearly every diamond ever mined is still out there and ‘new’ in the diamond business usually means buying from a business that calls themselves a jewelry store. It’s not really an attribute of the material or even the ownership history.

This gets back to marketplace selection. You asked about new vs used and it sounds like what you are really asking about is the difference between buying from a jewelry store vs buying on Craigslist. I would add to this buying on the Internet, buying from Costco or Walmart, buying on ebay, antique stores, pawn shops, auction houses and many other options. There are even sub-categories among these since not all jewelry stores charge the same, not all Internet sites are the same, not all Craigslist sellers are the same, etc. As I pointed out in the last post, this is not a gemological property even though it has a huge effect on the price. There ARE advantages to buying from a reputable dealer. It’s up to them to convince you that they are offering a valuable addition by their participation and it’s up to you to decide if these advantages are worth the cost. Not all are and not everyone values these things the same.
 
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