Premium for AGS cert - how much?

[Arlington]

I''ve been reading the forum and tutorial for months, and am finally ready to make a purchase. I''ve narrowed it down to two choices (I think...I''m so indecisive!). Unfortunately, I haven''t seen either of these in person...but I think they are both pretty good stones and both score pretty well on the HCA and the second one is a 1B on Dave Atlas'' do-it-yourself grader.

Diamond 1
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Laboratory: GIA
Carat Weight: 1.06
Color: F
Clarity: SI1
Shape: Round
Depth: 60.3%
Table: 56%
Polish: EX
Symmetry: EX
Culet: N
Girdle: TN
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 6.64x6.67x4.01
Crown 34.4°
Pavilion 40.5°
Girdle tn
HCA Score: .3
Price $5,286

Diamond 2
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Laboratory: AGS
Carat Weight: 1.02
Color: G
Clarity: SI1
Shape: Round
Depth: 60.2%
Table: 57%
Polish: ID
Symmetry: ID
Culet: P
Girdle: T-M
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 6.55x 6.53x3.94
HCA Score: 1.0
Price: $5,004

To my uneducated brain, these stones seem very similar. I expect that the second would be less because of the nearly .1mm difference in spread, the slightly smaller carat weight, and the G color. However, it''s not much cheaper! Only ~$280... is this because of the premium associated with AGS stones? I''m leaning towards #2...one reason is the certificate shows quite a few less inclusions even though both are SI1.

Any other opinions? Would GREATLY appreciate your help!

 

[Arlington]

I should also note that I chose these stones because of the availability of Crown and Pavilion angles. However, I also considered two GIA stones that did not have that data:
1) .97 F SI1 59.6 Depth (6.45x6.51x3.86) 58% table EX-EX -- $4168
2) 1.01 F VS2 60% (6.53x6.57x3.93) 58% VG-VG -- $4567

However, I dismissed then out of hand because of their lack of measurements or Sarin reports. But they are obviously cheaper, and the e-tailer offers a full return policy including shipping so I could order one and get it appraised. Does anyone think I should go that route?

 

[hoorray]

The e-tailer should be able to provide you the measurement via sarin reports on the GIA stones. I wouldn't count GIA stones out -- you can almost always get the sarin reports faxes or emailed to you if you ask.

 

[Arlington]

Unfortunately, I did ask and they could not provide the Sarin reports or the measurements, just the certificates which aren't much help. I won't post the name, but it's an online retailer who had previously received many good reviews at the forum.

Incidentally, the same retailer has the first two stones I listed as well.

 

[monkey]

i think you should tell us, so we don't have to find out for ourselves and waste time if a dealer isn't helpful and can't supply all the information

 

[aljdewey]

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On 8/12/2003 12:30:12 PM Arlington wrote:
Unfortunately, I did ask and they could not provide the Sarin reports or the measurements, just the certificates which aren't much help. I won't post the name, but it's an online retailer who had previously received many good reviews at the forum.

Incidentally, the same retailer has the first two stones I listed as well.

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This surprises me, because many posts lately hve confirmed that the GIA does log that information during evaluation; they just don't put it on the cert. A few here have relayed their success with having their vendor call GIA to secure the crown/pav angles. I seem to recall a caveat, though, that they will only provide this info to the owner of the stone.

It could be that your etailer has some of his own stones (which you can get details for) and also has access to other inventory he doesn't own (which may be those other stones).

 

[Arlington]

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On 8/12/2003 12:51:25 PM aljdewey wrote:


This surprises me, because many posts lately hve confirmed that the GIA does log that information during evaluation; they just don't put it on the cert. A few here have relayed their success with having their vendor call GIA to secure the crown/pav angles. I seem to recall a caveat, though, that they will only provide this info to the owner of the stone.

It could be that your etailer has some of his own stones (which you can get details for) and also has access to other inventory he doesn't own (which may be those other stones).
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That's interesting, I'll have to speak to my sales rep about that. I don't understand, however, how GIA could know who the "owner" of the stone is...I can't imagine that they could track such things.

And I also believe that my etailer has none of his own stones...I think he is going through brokers for all of them. It's just that some of the brokers may be more forthcoming with the c/p information than others. Also, the AGS certifcates include it!

Has anyone had any luck calling GIA to get crown and pavilion angles?

 

[aljdewey]

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On 8/12/2003 2

9:38 PM Arlington wrote:

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On 8/12/2003 12:51:25 PM aljdewey wrote:


This surprises me, because many posts lately hve confirmed that the GIA does log that information during evaluation; they just don't put it on the cert. A few here have relayed their success with having their vendor call GIA to secure the crown/pav angles. I seem to recall a caveat, though, that they will only provide this info to the owner of the stone.

It could be that your etailer has some of his own stones (which you can get details for) and also has access to other inventory he doesn't own (which may be those other stones).
----------------

Also, the AGS certifcates include it!

Has anyone had any luck calling GIA to get crown and pavilion angles?

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Arlington, yes a few people here have had luck getting the crown/pav angles on GIA stones.

Yes, the AGS certs do include it, but that doesn't help you on GIA stones. Perhaps you may want to limit your search to AGS stones, then, if you find that info more accessible.

 

[mike04456]

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On 8/12/2003 2

9:38 PM Arlington wrote:

That's interesting, I'll have to speak to my sales rep about that. I don't understand, however, how GIA could know who the "owner" of the stone is...I can't imagine that they could track such things.

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I don't think GIA tracks ownership, but they do maintain a huge database (known as Horizon) of every stone they have ever graded. When a diamond comes in, they record all sorts of data on proportions, inclusions, etc., in order to prevent people from submitting a stone more than once in hopes of getting a better grade. So they have all the angles and measurements on file even if they don't put the scores on the grading report.