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Pre-meds, Med Students, and Diamonds: OH MY!!

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CrownJewel

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Not just for docs!! This thread is for anyone who has a hard time balancing studies, work, Pricescope-ing, and wedding planning.

I've noticed many medical students posting on Pricescope, and although I doubt they will have much time to post in this thread, I thought that we could all share stories about how our diamond obsession eats into our studying time, how the ring settings affect wearing surigical gloves, how you plan a wedding without any sleep, etc!

Allycat this is for you! (She asked to hear about my stories as a premed).

I'm still a LIW, (my BF picked up the completed e-ring 2 hours ago). I'm not allowed to see it and have no idea when he will propose. AGONY! Anyway, many people have given me great advice in the past few weeks, including Allycat, and I've finally decided to stay on my path to an MD. It's been a 4 year struggle. I got my BA in Architecture and loved working with architects. All throughout college though, I had this itch to take premed classes, but the architecture program didn't allow for all that. So when I graduated college, I decided that I would enter a postbaccalaureate premed program and take all those premed requirements. I moved back home with my parents, a verbally abusive older brother and my younger, incredibly overachieving sister. The emotional and financial burdens of living at home really took a toll on my studies. My mom suffered a stroke when I was a senior in high school and ended up paralyzed on her dominant side, meaning she couldn't write, drive, or work. She was such an active superwoman before the stroke, and the thought of her being homebound wrecked my concentration all throughout college and even more when I moved back home. My brother is a doctor and kept telling me I can't do anything right. My sister is just perfect (really, I love her so much and I'm so proud of her). But she makes me look bad.
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My parents weren't educated, they came to America as refugees from the Khmer Rouge Genocide in Cambodia. After my mom's stroke, my dad was the sole supporter of the family, and that income was very little to begin with. I chose to take time away from my studies to help them with filling out medical forms, insurance forms, financial assistance forms, etc. There were just a lot of things, friends getting sick, friends' parents funerals, boyfriend's motorcycle accident, that I chose to take care of before concentrating on school.

Anyway, there were semesters where I got A's in my premed classes, followed by C's whenever my emotions got the better of me (I know, bad trait for a doc). This started to chip away at my already unstable confidence and ego. I had a really big ego when I was younger (in 4th grade, I kept outscoring the older kids so my school and my parents sent me to a better public school that had "special" programs for encyclopedia readers like me. I was the top scorer on every exam and beat all the boys in math and science and even woodshop class. I was the only elementary school student allowed into an advanced art program for the junior high kids. Ok I'll stop now). So I tried to retake the classes that I got C's in. This turns a 2 year program into a 4 year program for me, peppered with extreme highs and extreme lows, but never hitting middle ground. I took the MCAT without adequately studying and got a score too low to qualify me as a decent applicant. That was 2 years ago and my confidence never recovered. I've tried studying for the MCAT 2 more times after that, but always wasn't able to put my "all" into studying. I kept thinking about how much I suck, and about designing, business ideas, my mom, my friends, cooking, reading non-science books. So August 2006 was the last attempt at the MCAT, but I never actually took it. Never applied to med school. I started thinking that I'm not smart enough, I'm not committed enough. But my struggle with moving on was that all I can see in my future are patients and medical research. I keep coming back to that.

So this past week, I talked to many docs and advisors at the university and they think if I can get myself to take the MCAT, I'll be a strong applicant for med school. I asked if there are other fields I can go into where I can still have patients and conduct my own research studies. An advanced practice nursing program was mentioned, but one advisor said to me, "You've never tried HARD to take MCAT. You've never applied to medical school." She's so completely right! All of my friends and professors and mentors believe I can do it, but I keep telling myself that I'm not good enough. (I forgot to mention that my little sister, who is in her 4th year of college, took her MCAT in August. She signed up for a prep course like a smart girl, unlike me, and actually went through with the exam.) I think I needed to conquer the idea of committing to medicine before I could finally concentrate, wholeheartedly. I needed to realize that I have lots of time in my life later on to sew, or design, or learn to cook, or travel. I am ok with putting my other interests on hold for the next 8 years (4 for med school and at least 4 for residency). So I'm signing up for a Kaplan prep course that starts next week and goes until March.

My BF and I are both 25. He and his parents came here from Russia. I was born in Thailand at an American Red Cross refugee camp. We are a perfect fit for each other. I stress out a lot, and he never does so he calms me down and I show him why it's good to worry (sometimes). I'm romantic, he's logical (so we are really good at compromising). He's tall, I'm short (he takes up a lot of room and I'm space efficient). And he's really good at building my confidence. And he bought me a diamond!

Sorry this was so long.
 

diane5006

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I do wish you the best in your quest...

If being an MD is what you want to do...then work toward it and I wish you well...
 

CrownJewel

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Diane, thank you!
 

diane5006

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Hi CJ...I know you didn't mean anything by including that line it in your post...as I said I do wish you well...in whatever you decide to do...you have had so much going on in your life...

Also from my experience with test prep...the Kaplan classes and books seems to be really good...

I see you editied you post I will edit mine too :)
 

CrownJewel

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Haha. I couldn''t help smiling, Diane. I adore you already. I like people who are honest and have a sense of humor. I''m totally laughing at us. It''s like our little secret!
 

belle

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Date: 10/20/2006 7:08:16 PM
Author: CrownJewel
Haha. I couldn''t help smiling, Diane. I adore you already. I like people who are honest and have a sense of humor. I''m totally laughing at us. It''s like our little secret!
well, i didn''t pay attention to the revisions before but after you mentioned it, i just *had* to look!
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best of luck in whatever you do, high or low.
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helping people and being good at your job is what is most important.
 

tanuki

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The guy who graduated at the top of my medical school class with a perfect 4.0 in med school had actually flunked out of Duke before he decided that he should quit partying and grow up and go back to college. He got into med school from the waiting list the day before classes started.

So I wouldn't let a couple of college C's hold you back, although if you have to have "good" emotions to pass a course you are going to have to get over that, maybe thru therapy before you start med school. Med school has a "boot camp" component where the game is to break you down emotionally. You're going to need to be ready to play it. It's like the marines or something. Don't take it personally. No one gets into the profession without going thru it. You will be intentionally put in stressful situations to see if you have confidence and can focus and perform under stress. So you'd best mentally prepare yourself.

I took a MCAT preparation course. You probably should think about it. I don't know if I would have done the same without it, but test taking techniques play a role and familiarity with the format will make you calmer and more able to focus on just answering the question at hand.

I always thought that med school was a bit like making the step from the minor leagues in baseball to the major leagues. When you get there, everyone will have been at the top of their class in college. Everyone will know how to study and make an A in a college course. If you want to stand out in that company of peers you will have to really focus and excel. FYI - I graduated in the middle of my med school class and have been in practice for 20 years.
 

CrownJewel

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belle, I can''t sneak anything by a Pricescoper, huh? Thanks for your wishes.

tanuki, thank you for your advice and stories. Congrats on being successful for 20 years! I totally agree with you about the emotional aspect of medicine. It''s something that I remind myself of whenever I feel stressed, because I know that my emotional vulnerability is obviously the biggest obstacle for me. But it''s something I HAVE to overcome in order to do what I want, so I do work on it (so far on my own). Working with doctors everyday is a good reminder of my goals, so I''ve been feeling pretty emotionally strong for the past 2 years. However, I am actually thinking very seriously about cognitive behavioral therapy sessions, while I study for the MCAT. Whatever helps, right?!! I''d never give up all emotion though, I''m proud of my ability to empathize. The best doctors I''ve ever had myself made the emotional connection with humor. However doctors connect with their patients, they certainly need to make an effort.

I like to hear people''s success stories. I''m also kind of wondering, from all types of healthcare providers, when did you get married? When did you have your first child? The PI for the research I''m doing (also my mentor), said the best time to have children is during medical school (crap, now I can''t remember if it was medical school or residency). I always thought I wouldn''t have children until after residency (which would put me around 36...possibly too late!?). But I believe she had her first child after she finished medical school, and just delayed residency.
 

asscherisme

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I am married to a phycisian and we met when he was in med school. We got engaged right after he started his fellowship (he is a specialist) so it was after med school and after residency. We got married during his fellowship with one year left on fellowship so we only had a 4 day honeymoon.

We had our first child AFTER he started his real first job but by then I was in graduate school and it was tough balancing pregnancy new motherhood and grad school. I ended up quitting gradschool to stay home with my son. Then had 3 more kids after. One day I''ll go back to school and work.

My husband told me the other day that more med school grads today are women than men! I though that was great.

Planning wedding while my husband was in training ended up falling 100% on me. I am not into huge weddings and we had a simple event with only 50 guests. It was wondeful and intimate. We had the ceremony and receptionist at the same location. Elegant and simple.

I purposely choose a woman pediatrician for my kids so they can see that women can be anything they want to be. I did not want them to think that medicine is a "male" profession.

We have been married 11 years.

Good luck to you!
 

San Diego Bride

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hi crown!

i don''t really think there is a "right" time to have children. just like i don''t think there is a "right" time to get married. in my opinion, these things are both much "bigger" than your carreer. sure there are times when logistics are a little easier, but i don''t think there are any hard and fast rules. there is generally a little bit of time off between first and second year, some time between second and third (though most of this time is spent studying for boards), and quite a bit of flexibility in your fourth year. i would caution you against waiting until you finish residency if you''re sure children are in your future. you could still change your mind about your specialty which could prolong your residency. or you could decide you want to subspecialize and do a fellowship. you don''t want to limit yourself.

good luck with all of your decisions. it''s definitely an exciting place to be.

(by the way i am a subspecialist and a newlywed who got married after fellowship).
 

CrownJewel

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asscherisme:
"My husband told me the other day that more med school grads today are women than men! I though that was great."

YEAH! I wonder what''s going on?

"I am not into huge weddings and we had a simple event with only 50 guests. It was wondeful and intimate. We had the ceremony and receptionist at the same location. Elegant and simple."
That is my goal too. We won''t have much money for our wedding because we''ll be paying for it ourselves, and we''d rather buy an apartment or house with whatever money we have. I''ll have to look you up on PS when it comes time for us to plan our wedding!

"I purposely choose a woman pediatrician for my kids so they can see that women can be anything they want to be. I did not want them to think that medicine is a ''male'' profession."
Smart mom = smart kids. It''s good to see moms being pro-active in teaching their kids. I''m also glad to hear you''re still thinking about returning to school. I admire your respect for both school and family. Although I definitely want kids, I kind of wish I could just have them in my 50''s. HA. I don''t think I''ll ever want to take a break from working or being in school...eek! But I know I''ll have to.

novia:
Congratulations on recently getting married! I just looked at your pictures again. It takes my breath away every time. Talk about clear blue skies!! I also see myself specializing...in what...I don''t yet know. My brother is in his first year of his fellowship in interventional radiology. I remember how tough it was for him to get to this point, so cheers to you on your success!! And you''re SO YOUNG! How did you do it all? I know there''s never a right time to have children when you''re a student or doctor, but it''s hard for me to choose between career and family. It sounds scary to me to be in the middle of medical school and then taking time off to take care of my baby. When it comes time for me to really sit down and think about it, I just know I''m going to lose a lot of hair over the planning. So far, two of my doctor friends got married after their first year of med school. No babies yet!
 

allycat0303

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Hey CrownJewels,

I feel like I''ve been let out of jail after my exam was done. I honestly think that confidence plays a huge role in what you end up doing. Sometimes having the courage to try is the hardest part. I took Kaplan, and I thought it was excellent. The practice exams were nearly dead-on what I eventually ended up scoring. So I know that it''s going to great for you.

It''s so difficult watching your siblings do what you want to do. I had that experience, and it was terrible. But I''m proud that you''ve taken the first step. You have to keep us updated on the whole application process. The girls on this board nearly saved my sanity during the waiting (between interview to decision) is the worst worst part. They were so supportive it was unblieveble.

And you have life experience. Which is going to shine during your interview.

Hugs! AND here''s to Dreams
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CrownJewel

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Thanks allycat! Hearing your story from your various posts actually helped me realize that it can be done!! I''m glad you survived your exams. You probably didn''t think of this when you applied to medical school, but the fact that you did it and are doing well as a med student now makes you an inspiration!

Like you said, to be a successful doctor takes confidence. I think I needed to learn the difference between confidence and arrogance. I like to believe I''ve figured it out now...my arrogance caused me to stumble and lose confidence. So now, I''m working on rebuilding my confidence and I''m thankful for being involved in something that I''m dedicated to.

I finally decided to enroll in a Kaplan class that starts on November 18th. The classes go through until April, which is also when the MCAT is administered. My fiance and I will be studying for exams together (he''s taking the CFA in December), so at least we can motivate each other to go to the library. Oh he just got accepted to the MBA program at NYU and was invited for an interview at the Columbia business school!!! So we might be going to school together too!

Thanks again Ally. It always helps to get words of encouragement from you.
 

:)

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Date: 10/21/2006 12:57:54 PM
Author: CrownJewel
belle, I can''t sneak anything by a Pricescoper, huh? Thanks for your wishes.

tanuki, thank you for your advice and stories. Congrats on being successful for 20 years! I totally agree with you about the emotional aspect of medicine. It''s something that I remind myself of whenever I feel stressed, because I know that my emotional vulnerability is obviously the biggest obstacle for me. But it''s something I HAVE to overcome in order to do what I want, so I do work on it (so far on my own). Working with doctors everyday is a good reminder of my goals, so I''ve been feeling pretty emotionally strong for the past 2 years. However, I am actually thinking very seriously about cognitive behavioral therapy sessions, while I study for the MCAT. Whatever helps, right?!! I''d never give up all emotion though, I''m proud of my ability to empathize. The best doctors I''ve ever had myself made the emotional connection with humor. However doctors connect with their patients, they certainly need to make an effort.

I like to hear people''s success stories. I''m also kind of wondering, from all types of healthcare providers, when did you get married? When did you have your first child? The PI for the research I''m doing (also my mentor), said the best time to have children is during medical school (crap, now I can''t remember if it was medical school or residency). I always thought I wouldn''t have children until after residency (which would put me around 36...possibly too late!?). But I believe she had her first child after she finished medical school, and just delayed residency.
It is difficult to be married or have children and be in med school or in residency - medicine likes to be your first love, and doesn''t understand that you have other priorities outside of it!! People don''t elect when they decide to get sick, and illness doesn''t take breaks for holidays or birthdays or plans to go to the opera! They do have laws now that limit the # of hours you can work, but it is still demanding to manage a relationship and children - call nights can be difficult and you need to have a dedicated spouse that will be completely in charge of the children and not resentful when you are not there for a couple of days at a time every few days. It is also difficult when your board certification, etc comes up because you need to have large amounts of dedicated time to study. You just need to be realistic when planning your timing of things, it can still be done.
 

anchor31

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What a great thread idea! I'm not a med student, I'm studying to get a B.Sc. in biology, but I'm not having a very easy time of it... With all the stuff I need to memorize, I often feel like my brain is going to explode! Any magical tips for memorizing insane amounts of stuff??
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I work really hard and I get frustrated because my grades are pretty much sub-par (C+ to B- average). I had above-average marks in junior college, so it's hard to end up with marks like these in college!

J and I are getting married in fall 2008 once I'm done, and the long engagement is frustrating in itself at times.

Good luck to all of you, may your dreams come true!
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basil

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I''m not a premed or a med student, but I am an intern! My fiance is a third-year resident, but in a program in a different city.

Honestly, not to be discouraging, but things just get worse. When I graduated in May, I thought that without having the stress of being constantly judged on my performance and taking multiple choice tests all the time, that I could enjoy my time off and have less stress. But the increase in responsibility by far outweighs that. I''d so much rather be studying for an exam than be in the ER at 4 am with the ER docs yelling at me to hurry up and admit patients, while my resident is up managing a crashing patient on the floor.

It''s challenging having a relationship in these circumstances. Since my fiance and I are both residents, we basically get no choice as to what vacations we take or which weekends we have off. It''s not like we can just take a long weekend or call in sick if we feel like it. It makes visiting for a weekend a rare and special event. It sometimes even makes finding time to have a phone conversations difficult. It would be easier if we lived in the same place, but there would still be months where I am working nights and he is working days or vice versa.

There''s nothing else I would consider doing except medicine, and I know that internship is supposed to be hard. The only advice I can offer is that you really want to consider lifestyle factors when you pick your specialty. All through this year, I have been SO glad that my eventual specialty is one where you aren''t generally in the hospital after hours.

Ask me this question in one of my elective months and not the month where I''m working 8pm-8am every night, and I might have a different opinion. Good luck with everything!
 

diamondseeker2006

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My OB-GYN had her children when she was in a private practice, and she adjusted her hours to part-time. She balanced her time so she could keep her career without sacrificing her family. I have always admired that.
 

San Diego Bride

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basil,

i think you''ll look at all of this differently a little later. yes, internship is hard. in some ways it''s the hardest year of your career. and yet it''s still going to get harder. this year you''re trying to admit patients as fast as you can. your pager is always going off. everyone is pulling you in every direction. but next year, you''ll be the one with the crashing patient! your pager may go off less, but you''ll have a lot more responsibility when it does.

right now you think you''d rather be studying for a test, but would you really? by the time you get to intership you know how to study. it might be a pain, but it becomes a little easier to do and at least it''s familiar. you know what to expect. you''ll close yourself up in a room for hours on end, drink way too much caffeine, increase your stress level and then go sit in a different room and fill in some ovals on a test sheet. Then you''ll beat yourself up a little about why you didn''t spend more time studying this or that and wait for someone to give you a score that''s somehow intended to tell you if you''ll be a good doctor. the problem is that it doesn''t prepare you at all to a doctor. being an intern is much, much harder and much more stressful. but it''s also much more rewarding. and when you get the hang of it, it''s a lot more fun too.

i''m often in the hospital in the middle of the night and would much prefer that to studying for boards!

any way you look at it, the best part of internship is that''s it''s over in a year, or actually in 8 months for you. hang in there!
 

basil

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Hi Novia,

What specialty are you in? I think a big part of my annoyance with this year is that I''m doing my internship in medicine...and I''m doing my residency next year in ophthalmology. So most of what I''m learning isn''t going to be relevant. Next year is going to be just like another internship year, in some ways, in that I''ll be pretty lost in the beginning and have to learn a lot quickly. It''ll be easier in that respect that I''ll be more interested and motivated, but harder in the way that it will be my eventual job, and I''ll be under a lot more pressure to perform well! Thankfully, without crashing patients though
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I was always a good test taker, so I never had so much stress and beating myself up afterwards. I miss the days of sitting in Panera drinking all the free tea refills I could and doing practice questions. I''m sure I''ll have more opportunities for that though. The testing never ends.
 

CrownJewel

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Hi Basil, I don''t feel discouraged at all by hearing horror stories. I think a lot of premed students NEED to be reminded of all the tougher work that''s ahead. Maybe the thought of it all getting much worse makes the current stress seem manageable, thus propelling us forward...one hurdle at a time.

Good luck to you! It sounds really really tough because your schedule is so separate from your fiance''s. Cheers to you both for making it all work. And like you said, all the hours you put in towards work and school make the downtime all the more special. Of course, it''s easy for me to say because you''re doing all the hard work!! I really do admire what you''re doing, and I hope to handle it as well as you.
 

:)

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Date: 11/16/2006 3:32:50 AM
Author: basil
Hi Novia,

What specialty are you in? I think a big part of my annoyance with this year is that I''m doing my internship in medicine...and I''m doing my residency next year in ophthalmology. So most of what I''m learning isn''t going to be relevant. Next year is going to be just like another internship year, in some ways, in that I''ll be pretty lost in the beginning and have to learn a lot quickly. It''ll be easier in that respect that I''ll be more interested and motivated, but harder in the way that it will be my eventual job, and I''ll be under a lot more pressure to perform well! Thankfully, without crashing patients though
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I was always a good test taker, so I never had so much stress and beating myself up afterwards. I miss the days of sitting in Panera drinking all the free tea refills I could and doing practice questions. I''m sure I''ll have more opportunities for that though. The testing never ends.
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diabetes, htn, embolic events, needing to do something when you are wanting to operate and the pts bp is too high ...- you will be surprised. pay attention this year, you will be glad you did later.
 

San Diego Bride

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Messages
392
hi basil. don''t fear. there will be many test-taking opportunities ahead! and there are still a lot of long tea-refill days as you read about your patients. i could not agree with :) more. much of what you''re seeing IS relevant!!

i specialize in pediatric intensive care so i''m sort of at home with crashing patients (as long as they are kids). eyes, on the other hand, that''s another story. different strokes for different folks.

i''m quite jealous about your test-taking skills, by the way.
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basil

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Sure, diabetes and hypertension are related to some eye diseases. But the acute management of DKA or hypertensive emergency really isn''t something I''ll ever do again. Neither is the management of COPD exacerbation, CHF exacerbation, pneumonia, or my favorite - lower extremity edema. I''m not saying that I shouldn''t know anything about hypertension or I shouldn''t know anything about diabetes. But do I really need to know how to manage it in the hospital? Not really. It would be nice to know how to manage things as an outpatient. I think it would be much more relevant to see non-acute diabetes patients and non-acute hypertension patients. I think it''s always beneficial when you''re asking a patient to control his blood sugar or blood pressure better to have an understanding of how to talk to them, what they might be doing wrong, and to have an idea of what the next step in treatment may be. But managing a BP of 210/100? No way. I''ll send them to the ER. A patient''s BP too high for surgery? Go see your internist and come back a different day. Unfortunately, the way the internship is structured, I get 1 month out of 12 to do ambulatory care.

I''m not saying internship is a complete waste of time. I look at it as a confidence-builder. I''m definitely more sure of my own judgement and my own decisions now than I was in July, and I''ve still got a ways to go. And it''s always helpful to learn better skills at interacting with patients. But as far as the actual technical material I''m learning, it''s mostly irrelevant. And it''s not like internists learn about the managment of glaucoma or cataracts either. Just enough to know when you''re above your head.

Novia - I loved my pediatrics rotation as a med student and thought hard about going into it. I still may subspecialize in pediatric ophthalmology. I can''t say that critical care ever crossed my mind though
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.

Anyway, it''s been a long night
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