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Possibly steep pavilion triple x .82 vs less depth .75

Zach30011

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 3, 2016
Messages
4
Safe to say I've lost a lot of sleep the past two weeks,lol.

Here is what's set to be delivered pending I don't cancel the order.

Crown 35.5, pavilion 41.2, 57 table, 62.9 depth
Triple x g color .82 carat eye clean si1 inclusion was a crystal

My concerns are if the pavilion being .2 over 41 is enough to produce light leakage under the table. It has a steeper crown angle, could this produce a balancing act.

What I'm afraid this diamond is going to lack is fire and contrast. As well as some brilliance around the culet.

Option two: crown 35 pavilion 40.8 depth 61.6 table 57
Triple ex g color si 1 yet to confirm eye clean status .75 carat. Inclusion is a feather, yet to confirm if it reaches the surface or not. Both things are on the to do list.

For me to switch from one to the other I would want to see black arrows in the second diamond. As well as a fix to the light leakage issues. How close to signature hearts and arrows do you guys feel the second diamond would be?

I've seen pictures of the first and it does seem dark under the table raising a lot of concern. only reason I haven't waited for the diamond to arrive and view in person is I'm trying to cut down on back and forth shipping. Figure I have enough concerns already to consider a switch based on knowledge I've gained.

Worth noting second diamond is $350 cheaper as well
Thanks again for any advice. I'm ready to sleep good again,lol.
 

fair75

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
87
For diamonds that have crown angles 35/pavilion angles 41 or over 35/41, you must have an IS or ASET scope image to determine the light performance. The first diamond you listed has both crown and pavilion angles over 35 and 41, which indicate a strong possibility of light performance issues. In addition, the depth is 62.9, which is too deep. I would suspect that this diamond will look smaller than the one that has all the ideal proportions, assuming both are 0.82 ct.

The second diamond has ideal proportions and the potential to be a nice diamond. However, you will still need an IS/ASET to verify its light performance because GIA numbers are averaged and rounded. If it's impossible for you to get an IS/ASET scope image and you must buy only on what you can see on the grading report, I would feel more comfortable picking the second diamond, provided that it is eye clean and has none/faint fluorescence (unless it is professionally determined that the medium or strong fluorescence will not cause the diamond to look cloudy or milky).
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
12,194
The first diamond is referred to as a steep deep - deep crown angle and deep pavilion angle. They are not complimentary so you could expect light leakage - I suspect this is why you see the table dark. The depth is deep as well so that it will not face up as large as it should.

The numbers on the second stone are better but you should be able to get images including IS. Would definitely want to confirm how eye clean it is as well.

Is there a particular vendor you are interested in using? Budget?
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,449
Hello, there are strong reservations about the first diamond which you are correct about. A 0.82 with those proportions has a diameter of roughly 5.96mm, while a 0.75 with those more ideal proportions has a diameter of roughly 5.85mm. This is most likely not a noticeable difference.

It would be helpful if you share the proportions with us. Nevertheless 35/41 is not a risk free combo and if the 'arrow effect' you speak of will show depending on the rounding of GIA. If it was a 34.8, 40.9 that was rounded up to 35/ 41, then you're likely to see the arrows. Where as if it was a 35.24, 41.9, then you are much less likely to see those arrows. I would cancel your order, and don't restrict yourself to these two. Let the community help you find a great diamond for a great price.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,631
These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone.

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0 (up to 35.5 crown angle can sometimes work with a 40.6 pav angle)

pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)

The second stone is a contender as far as cut goes. I'd definitely cancel the first one. You are unlikely to find a true hearts and arrows stone that is not in a jewelers branded inventory. But most well cut rounds will be cut that way but just not as perfect as what we call hearts and arrows (which are the finest precision cut stones).

I would not limit myself to one or two stones. Where are you looking?
 

Zach30011

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 3, 2016
Messages
4
I cancelled the first shortly after making the post. To many bad vibes on it. Second diamond is on reserve pending arrival of photos and eye clean status. Unfortunately I've searched so long I've put myself in a bit of a rush Need to order tomorrow. The pavilion is 40.8 so it should stay under 41 even if rounded. The crown is a wild card 34.9-35.1 depending on rounding.

Ya I kinda figured if it wasn't list at true hearts price there was probably a reason. This diamonds hca is 1.6. Measures 5.87x5.84x3.61

Budget is $3000 or less, .75 carat and up (started at .90) g color si1 eye clean.

Second diamond is blue Nile for $2800 .75 carat g color si1 triple x ideal. Price has been the best I can find. Sound fair? I feel much more comfortable with the second one.

Thanks for the input
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
I personally would advise you to drop to H color at that size range.

We need more than the information you are providing on the stones to advise you. But you need to confirm that the SI1 stones are eyeclean with the vendors.

We need: table, depth, crown and pavilion angles for the stones in addition to the measurements and the HCA score.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
If they can get you an idealscope and confirm they are eyeclean:
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-8427775-0.81-carat-Round-diamond-G-color-SI1-Clarity.aspx?sku=8427775&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-8065714-0.75-carat-Round-diamond-E-color-SI1-Clarity.aspx?sku=8065714&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-8317978-0.75-carat-Round-diamond-D-color-SI1-Clarity.aspx?sku=8317978&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com could be a good value.

These will be eyeclean so get an idealscope image:
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-8321202-0.80-carat-Round-diamond-H-color-SI1-Clarity.aspx?sku=8321202&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com :love:
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-8123404-0.76-carat-Round-diamond-F-color-VS1-Clarity.aspx?sku=8123404&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com :love:
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-8172710-0.76-carat-Round-diamond-G-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=8172710&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-8371716-0.75-carat-Round-diamond-G-color-VS1-Clarity.aspx?sku=8371716&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-8414936-0.76-carat-Round-diamond-F-color-VVS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=8414936&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-7784069-0.78-carat-Round-diamond-H-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=7784069&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com
 

Zach30011

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 3, 2016
Messages
4
My initial reaction is to say I want to stay at g color, however how much difference could I expect?

$2800 Gia 7223305836 is everything I know about the second diamond. Hca was 1.6. Unless we find a serious issue with this one or substantial cost savings I would like to stick with this one. Been looking so much every time I switch it stresses me out. I'll check back tonight and look over advice and place order.

Photo should be here tonight. Want to make sure it's not a nail head either.

Thanks again for the help in picking a stone.
 

Zach30011

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 3, 2016
Messages
4
The second diamond is almost identical to blue Nile signature diamond stock number LD07189843. Think the g cal images would be similar between both stones?

Table depth crown and pavilion are identical. Only variable would up upper/lower girdle facet lengths.
 

John Pollard

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
3,559
Zach30011|1467638983|4051323 said:
The second diamond is almost identical to blue Nile signature diamond stock number LD07189843. Think the g cal images would be similar between both stones? Table depth crown and pavilion are identical. Only variable would up upper/lower girdle facet lengths.
Long summary: It may be useful to know that several data points on GIA Reports are averages of multiple-measurements. For example, a Crown Angle listed at 36.0 is really the average of eight numbers. Those individual measurements may or may-not be close to the printed average. In fact, mass-producers are very aware that the averages are used to set the cut-grade, and they can make adjustments so diamonds without strong 3D precision still get the 2D "Excellent" grade. It's not just Crown Angle: Pavilion Angle and Star length are also averages of eight measurements and the Lower Half length averages sixteen. Furthermore, after the numbers are averaged they get rounded even farther. Crown Angle is moved to the closest 0.5 degrees, so diamonds with Crown Angles averaging between 35.8-36.2 will all be reported as 36.0.

The short summary: This is why astute consumer posters on this site request cut-assessment images to provide feedback. We can't see the diamond in person (which is the best analysis). But an Ideal-Scope or ASET image for a round brilliant provides information about that diamond's light-return and craftsmanship which goes far beyond the printed numbers.
 
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