Polygon - what is this?

[lisa1.01fvs1]

Is this a "search" tool for industry insiders to get stones?

A trade only membership. What services are offered?

 

[Kaleigh]

I think it''s for trade members only.

 

[strmrdr]

trade only version of PS, diamond search engine and forums just like here.

 

[lisa1.01fvs1]

Seems like the trade knows what''s going on over here:

POLYGON PROFILE Case #118
"FIGHTING THE ''INTERNET WHOLESALERS''"

A TRUE STORY FROM POLYGON
The Jewelry Industry’s Marketplace Life used to be simpler. As independent retail jewelers, making your customer happy meant providing good service, educating the client, making sure you had what they needed, and offering decent value. Those things still count. But these days, when it comes to diamonds, it seems more people just care about price. And with the Internet, it’s getting a lot worse with websites advertising “wholesale to the public.” That’s been going on for years in the Yellow Pages, but on the Internet you really do have diamond wholesalers sell-ing direct to the public – at price levels that really are close to wholesale. Last week a gentleman came in with a diamond he’d purchased on the Internet – and he came into my store just to get an appraisal on it!

Selling diamonds, especially diamonds with certs, is one of our main sources of revenue, so we take the Internet challenge very seriously. Fortunately, we know how to fight back. Our diamond sales are up. Our revenues are up. And our profits are up. The secret is Polygon. One thing I like about Polygon is their mission is to provide the Internet tools retail jewelers need to survive in today’s world. That’s their specialty. And they’ve certainly done so in our case. We got on Poly about four years ago. Before that we used to buy 90+ percent of our diamonds from just four suppliers. Today, we buy 90+ percent of our diamonds through Polygon – that means that instead of dealing with four suppliers, we’redealing with over 400.

Here’s what that does to our bottom line. First, any diamond we need we can find instantly. We can find it on the spot, with the customer still in the store. That means we save time, and we save customers. Second, it means we have to stock very little. That saves on carrying costs, insurance, you name it. Third, we can always beat anyone else on price, even the Internet “wholesalers,” if we want to. (If the customer is focused on price, we have to be too.) Think about it.

If you could contact 400 dealers when you need a stone, instead of just four, do you think you might find a better price? Of course you would. Lowering our cost of goods preserves our margin.

Becoming a member of Polygon was one of the best business decisions we ever made. In fact let me go further. It was THE best business decision we ever made. When I look back on the last four years, I don’t know how we stayed in business without it. It’s a tough world out there, and it’s going to get tougher. Jewelers who don’t adapt, and who don’t start using the new productivity tools, are going to be the first to go. The survivors – the ones who fight back and win – are on Polygon.

Bernie Benavidez
Master Jewelers, Rochester, Minnesota
Polygon ID# 71289
Since 1983, Polygon has been the jewelry industry’s on-line marketplace. Every day, thousands of retailers and wholesalers buy and sell literally millions of dollars in diamonds, watches, gemstones, estate jewelry, and more, plus they exchange the information they need to help run their businesses more profitably. If you want to maximize your time and minimize your inventory expenses, then you’re ready for Polygon. Call today to find out more.

 

[strmrdr]

There are more than a few people there that hate PS with a passion and a couple that hate me personally which is kewl cuz I hate them 2!!

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 4/2/2008 2:07:56 AM
Author: strmrdr
There are more than a few people there that hate PS with a passion and a couple that hate me personally which is kewl cuz I hate them 2!!

I have to say, any jeweller that "hates" their own consumers learning more about the very product they are selling and supposed to be passionate about - well,they should be in a different business!

 

[WinkHPD]

Polygon is a wonderful tool for jewelers. There we can have access to hundreds of jewelers we would not otherwise have met and we share information with each other that might otherwise be difficult to find.

We have a resident photography expert that shares information on how to take photos. We have several resident business experts that help jewelers run their business better by understanding cash flow and inventory concepts. Several of the stores that people in their communities love and shop at are in business today and prospering because of what they learned from these business consulting experts.

There we can find access to stones that we may not otherwise have found. There we can ask for and receive help about myriad topics that we do not have expertise in. I first found out about cad cam and worked with cad cam experts there. I quickly discovered that I am not and will never be a cad cam expert but I know good ones because of my time there.

Yes, there are those there who hate the internet and all of the on line wholesalers selling directly to the public. But, many of the people who are on the net selling to you are also Polygon members and we present the other side of the story to people on Polygon.

I am proud to be a Polygon member and just returned from a fabulous weekend in Salt Lake City with about 100 other Polygon members to study jewelry issues and Polygon issues as well as to put faces to names with people I have "known" on line for years.

People traveled from far and near to be there, we had a participant from Israel, also our own Paul Antwerp (Paul Slegers) one of the newer Polygon members came from Antwerp to meet his new on line associates and to provide jewelers with interesting concepts about how to present the better cut gems.

Polygon helps jewelers to be better jewelers, and as such it is to your benefit that there is a Polygon.

Many of you will have dealt with Polygon members without ever having known it, there are several on Pricescope.

So, while some of their members may fear and hate change and how it is affecting their business, many of their members embrace change and freely participate on Pricescope and other forums where that very change is happening.

I have been a member of Polygon since the days when there was no internet, when we sent messages in via telephone and they were beamed to a satellite and we received messages via a small dish on the roofs of our businesses. I am still a member and proud to be one. The things I learn there and the people I have met there have helped me to better serve the people here on PriceScope.

I would thus urge you to consider that Polygon is an organization of people and that as in any organization, there will be those you like and those you do not. I urge you to consider that the main focus of Polygon is to help the jewelers be better jewelers through education of their members, and that they help us to be more efficient in the acquisition of the merchandise we sell, and that ultimately this helps, not hurts, you.

Just my thoughts on an early morning topic...

Wink at 6:23 in the morning

 

[strmrdr]

morning Wink, did you put on a bullet proof vest before you walked in the door? lol

 

[denverappraiser]

Poly offers a good service and has done so for decades as Wink so nicely summarized. For many jewelers it’s as important a tool as PS is for consumers. Although there is a certain amount of stress because of the shrinking margins and the tendency to blame it on ‘the Internet’, most of the Poly members are sensible business people who are trying to run responsible businesses while offering quality goods and services to their customers. It’s not that easy. There’s nothing insidious about it but, because it’s a moderately expensive subscription service and because they limit membership to the jewelry trade it seems like there must be something going on behind the scenes that is undermining consumer trust or education. T’aint so. Not everyone in any group agrees with one another and there are some fairly vocal folks there who are unhappy with the way the world is evolving but for every Poly member who is pining for the way that things used to be, there are 2 more who are pushing forward. Every time there’s progress in anything there’s bound to be a bit of friction and both sides of an argument are necessary in order for the progress to happen. These are the good guys, including the ones who are fairly vocal about their gripes. The sharks to watch out for are cruising under the radar.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[strmrdr]

Well the blowhards are giving it a bad name and anyone that thinks things don''t leak out is an idiot.
Personally I like too poke the ones that don''t like me with a stick once in the while too remind them I don''t like them either :}

 

[lisa1.01fvs1]

Date: 4/2/2008 8:22:02 AM
Author: Wink
Many of you will have dealt with Polygon members without ever having known it, there are several on Pricescope.

So, while some of their members may fear and hate change and how it is affecting their business, many of their members embrace change and freely participate on Pricescope and other forums where that very change is happening.

I have been a member of Polygon since the days when there was no internet, when we sent messages in via telephone and they were beamed to a satellite and we received messages via a small dish on the roofs of our businesses. I am still a member and proud to be one. The things I learn there and the people I have met there have helped me to better serve the people here on PriceScope.

I would thus urge you to consider that Polygon is an organization of people and that as in any organization, there will be those you like and those you do not. I urge you to consider that the main focus of Polygon is to help the jewelers be better jewelers through education of their members, and that they help us to be more efficient in the acquisition of the merchandise we sell, and that ultimately this helps, not hurts, you.

Just my thoughts on an early morning topic...

Wink at 6:23 in the morning

Hi Wink (and shout out from Grand Poohbah, just met the guy as I live nearby),

Only issue here is that while PS is transparent to trade members and consumers alike, Polygon isn''t.

Strange how there is another "forum" for you guys that doesn''t and won''t be open to us, your customers.

I believe capitalism is alive and well. We should all have access, right strmrdr?

Denver, the very fact that they exclude individuals (regardless if those in the club are in disagreement with eachother) makes for yet again another opaque area for consumers.

This is akin to a doctors medical journal barring the public from access. Why can''t the info. flow..........

 

[lisa1.01fvs1]

For clarification:

Polygon is the jewelry industry’s online marketplace. In continuous operation since 1983, Polygon provides the most efficient and cost-effective means of sourcing and marketing diamonds, watches, finished jewelry, colored stones, and estate pieces – including an inventory of over $950 million dollars of diamonds alone, updated daily. Polygon delivers four key benefits: it saves you time, it saves you money, it saves you customers, and it increases your profitability. If you’d like to know more, please call us at 800-221-4435 (From outside the U.S.: 970-262-7200).


An interesting article they list under "success stories" -

So what''s the point of having a jeweler at all? Certainly seems like they are the "middleman."

Title: The Customer from Hell (probably some of us on PS no doubt)



It was 1pm on Friday, July 29, 1995. The man walked in and said he needed a diamond engagement ring. Maybe one and a half carat, round, F, VS quality. So far so good.

Then he told me he''d been shopping for the best price for two months. Been to San Francisco, Chicago and Atlanta as well as here in Kansas City. He even had a computer print-out of diamonds from a Chicago "wholesaler," with a column showing % off Rap!

In short, he was another customer from Hell.

I knew it was going to be a tough close. Real tough. But I had the right tool for the job: Polygon.

I turned to the Polygon Network. With a few minutes on the keyboard I found the right stone, with a cert, at a price the others couldn''t match even after my markup. I also had on hand some beautiful 14k solitaire mountings I''d received on memo from another Poly subscriber in California a week earlier. The customer chose one of them. Got the stone in by FedEx on Saturday morning. Had it set by a third Poly sub right in Kansas City, and it was ready Saturday afternoon. The customer paid cash!

My family''s been in the jewelry business since 1885. But would I have made that sale without Polygon? Not a chance. With the competition what it is today, Poly-power makes the difference between a successful close and a customer who walks. That''s why I''m buying over 90% of my merchandise on Polygon these days. And making more money than ever.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 4/2/2008 9:41:56 AM
Author: lisa1.01fvs1


Hi Wink (and shout out from Grand Poohbah, just met the guy as I live nearby),

Only issue here is that while PS is transparent to trade members and consumers alike, Polygon isn''t.

Strange how there is another ''forum'' for you guys that doesn''t and won''t be open to us, your customers.

I believe capitalism is alive and well. We should all have access, right strmrdr?

Denver, the very fact that they exclude individuals (regardless if those in the club are in disagreement with eachother) makes for yet again another opaque area for consumers.

This is akin to a doctors medical journal barring the public from access. Why can''t the info. flow..........

yep they should open it.
you would be really shocked too hear where there are secret forums.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 4/2/2008 9:41:56 AM
Author: lisa1.01fvs1

Date: 4/2/2008 8:22:02 AM

Author: Wink

Many of you will have dealt with Polygon members without ever having known it, there are several on Pricescope.


So, while some of their members may fear and hate change and how it is affecting their business, many of their members embrace change and freely participate on Pricescope and other forums where that very change is happening.


I have been a member of Polygon since the days when there was no internet, when we sent messages in via telephone and they were beamed to a satellite and we received messages via a small dish on the roofs of our businesses. I am still a member and proud to be one. The things I learn there and the people I have met there have helped me to better serve the people here on PriceScope.


I would thus urge you to consider that Polygon is an organization of people and that as in any organization, there will be those you like and those you do not. I urge you to consider that the main focus of Polygon is to help the jewelers be better jewelers through education of their members, and that they help us to be more efficient in the acquisition of the merchandise we sell, and that ultimately this helps, not hurts, you.



Just my thoughts on an early morning topic...


Wink at 6:23 in the morning

Hi Wink (and shout out from Grand Poohbah, just met the guy as I live nearby),


Only issue here is that while PS is transparent to trade members and consumers alike, Polygon isn't.


Strange how there is another 'forum' for you guys that doesn't and won't be open to us, your customers.


I believe capitalism is alive and well. We should all have access, right strmrdr?


Denver, the very fact that they exclude individuals (regardless if those in the club are in disagreement with eachother) makes for yet again another opaque area for consumers.


This is akin to a doctors medical journal barring the public from access. Why can't the info. flow..........

Lisa,

I think it’s more akin to the observation that medical conventions are attended by doctors, not by patients. It’s the difference between a private discussion and a secret one. Private discussions are an important part of discourse just like public ones are. Jewelers are businesses and just like any other business there is a certain amount of activity that goes on behind the scenes. This can include mundane things like tax compliance, how to take good photographs and what’s the best way to clean showroom carpets to details like where to get supplies or services, how to manage cash flow and, yes, how to make enough profit to cover the bills and have something left over for their retirement. It is not unreasonable that jewelers would want to hold such discussions in private, away from their customers or that they would wish to hold them with other jewelers who may have faced similar issues in a different marketplace. They can learn from each others mistakes and benefit from each others wisdom. Again, it’s a good thing. It makes jewelers better. It makes the market more efficient. It benefits consumers.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[lisa1.01fvs1]

Denver it is absolutely understandable that all areas of professional specialties have their "support groups" and most of what you cite doesn''t really concern consumers
but article after article cites one main thing: DIAMOND SALES.

I don''t personally want to attend the "how do I pay for my employes health insurance, childcare, etc." debates.

However, Polygon provides trade access that makes it hard to believe that jeweler X is better than jeweler Y. If they are all using the same system everyone''s homogenized (sp).

There are no distinctions then.

If I could get on the service, well I could be my own jeweler and avoid all the headache.

 

[denverappraiser]

The presumption here is that jewelers add little or no value. To be sure, some don’t, but in many cases that employee’s health insurance is an important component to the whole deal and the management that combines all of the elements is offering a valuable service both in knowing what the issues are and in putting the deal together in your behalf. How valuable these services are and what components you do and don’t want are really the key. You CAN effectively be your own jeweler and many of the PSers are doing just that. You can separately buy the components, contract with your own benchman to assemble it, your own appraiser to document it, and your own insurer to warranty it. In many, but not all cases this will lower the final price, sometimes by quite a bit, others by just a little but this doesn't necessarily make it a better deal. Different jewelers offer a different bundle of benefits and it’s a wickedly competitive business. If you don’t want the ‘free’ services offered by those employees (and therefore involving those pesky health insurance needs), you can shop with a jeweler who doesn’t provide this as part of their offer. It’s not like ‘bare bones’ and discount offers are hard to find.

Jewelers offer value to manufacturers as well. Consumers relationships tend to be time consuming and expensive and one way for a manufacturer to maximize their own sales is to partner with jewelers who are in different areas or have different sorts of specialties. The retailers provide the advertising, the showroom and the staff and the manufacturer provides the product and sometimes the financing. There’s nothing wrong with this and there’s nothing wrong with the idea that the jeweler expects to be paid for it. This is the way that most products are sold and it’s not part of a vast conspiracy to unreasonably extort money from consumers. Again, if you don’t like the showroom, the staff or the added costs that are involved with these things you can vote with your feet and shop elsewhere. If the manufacturer finds that a particular store isn’t holding up their end of the bargain and they lose too many sales to their competitors over it, they too will jump ship and find a different distribution approach, perhaps a different partner, perhaps a different distribution model or perhaps direct sales themselves. It’s pure capitalism and none of this is carved in stone. Some jewelers may not like how it's working out for their own businesses, and they may hold it against Storm or me (independent appraisers aren't all that popular either), but that's the way the real world works. They don't have to like it. They have to compete against it and they have to make their own products and services sufficiently attractive to persuade customers to shop with them. Those who can will thrive and those who can't will perish.

Of course they talk about diamond sales a lot. That’s largely what jewelers do although there’s also quite a bit of discussion about the idea that this is a mistake on the part of the jewelers. Other areas of the store deserve more attention than they historically have been getting.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

 

[oldminer]

Until about a year ago I was a Polygon member and participant. After about 10 years or more of membership, I found it of decreasing value to me as I exited from owning a lot of inventory and increasingly becoming more of a service provider. Many of the people were truly good guys and some of the jerks made it entertaining to lurk, too. The annual cost was $1,000 and not free like Pricescope. I think Pricescope would be a far more exclusive little club if it was $1,000 per year. For that fee a jewery industry member gets to communicate with about 3,000 other jewelry guys and gals. Considering the audience available the $1,000 seemed like a fair investment if I was going to do business with distant dealers. At least I knew who these people were and that I was working within the trade. As a wholesaler this was important to my business model.

Jewelers have things they can discuss in a private forum just like any expert group has to do from time to time. Often a professional is embarassed to seek advice in a public venue but can readily find a willing adviser on a private forum. People with like problems enjoy the give and take. People who are committed to making everyone annoyed have paid for the privilege. On a free forum troublemakers are often asked to leave. Polygon may ask an occasional vendor to leave, but most of the time the other members have a lot of fun teasing and name calling. It may be childish, but some people just can't resist. It is nearly as entertaining as going to a live court room on occasion.

Pricescope has it all over Polygon when it comes to creating a positive atmosphere in which to do business. I found less and less reason to be on Polygon and more reasons to be here. Many others feel the same or refuse to admit it even when it is apparent to everyone else. There are probably no more than 150 really active dealers on Polygon making any important money by working within the network. Likely as not, that figure of 150 is quite a bit too high. Don't regret not being on Polygon. It is not a proper fit for consumers in any meaningful way.

 

[lisa1.01fvs1]

OM thank you for the reality check.

Denver, "The retailers provide the advertising, the showroom and the staff and the manufacturer provides the product and sometimes the financing. There’s nothing wrong with this and there’s nothing wrong with the idea that the jeweler expects to be paid for it. This is the way that most products are sold and it’s not part of a vast conspiracy to unreasonably extort money from consumers."

Understood. As to the unreasonability, how does this account for all the skewed pricing for the same product ie. mall stores with crazy discounting/deals. And then there''s the I''ll offer you cash model and *bam* somehow a $3,400 diamond necklace went to $1,000? I guess, I have grown to skeptical about the middleman. And to clarify, I think all hardworking employees deserve health insurance.

 

[LegacyGirl]

Date: 4/2/2008 1:20:38 PM
Author: lisa1.01fvs1
OM thank you for the reality check.

Denver, ''The retailers provide the advertising, the showroom and the staff and the manufacturer provides the product and sometimes the financing. There’s nothing wrong with this and there’s nothing wrong with the idea that the jeweler expects to be paid for it. This is the way that most products are sold and it’s not part of a vast conspiracy to unreasonably extort money from consumers.''

Understood. As to the unreasonability, how does this account for all the skewed pricing for the same product ie. mall stores with crazy discounting/deals. And then there''s the I''ll offer you cash model and *bam* somehow a $3,400 diamond necklace went to $1,000? I guess, I have grown to skeptical about the middleman. And to clarify, I think all hardworking employees deserve health insurance.

The last time I was in a BM store I heard this same thing going on and I wanted to grab the guy and go "RUN RUN TO PRICESCOPE!!!"

I left before he decided to purchase or not.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 4/2/2008 9:35:40 AM
Author: strmrdr
Well the blowhards are giving it a bad name and anyone that thinks things don''t leak out is an idiot.

Personally I like too poke the ones that don''t like me with a stick once in the while too remind them I don''t like them either :}

Interesting.

As I said, I have been on Poly since before there was an internet, and I do not believe I have ever seen your name there.

I have seen a few threads, mostly started by someone from another forum who was always bragging how he had the cheapest prices on the net, and if you want to know the truth about diamonds just ask me. When some of the vendors started selling at even lower prices than he was he started rants about any despicable dealer selling to the public should be tarred and feathered and boycotted. I think the fact that he had gotten himself banned from Pricescope may have had something to do with it also.

The stories that have been posted above, are part of Polygon''s advertising campaign, not from within the forum itself if I am not mistaken. The marketing people have found, unfortunately, that fear is a great motivator in convincing people to join Poly so that they can learn to defend themselves. Only a very small percentage of these people ever stick to the membership, and those that do are the ones who come to learn how to be better jewelers, not those who come to rant and rail against the changes that are happening.

I want to thank both Neil and Dave for their well thought out comments. Dave, I will take a small exception to your comment that there are about 150 active members.

For the discussion boards that is probably a little low, depending on how you define active, but there are many who never look at the boards and only use the buy/sell channels or even just access certnet to see who has the diamonds they wish to buy. The vast majority of Polygon is below the surface level so to speak, and it is only the tip of the iceberg that you see in the discussion forums.

Oh, and as for the comments about the abuses seen in the mall, you can be sure that few, if any of these (expletive deleted) are members of Polygon. They would never dare to have their sales staff actually know much about jewelry.

As I said before, many of you have unknowingly done business with Polygonners. I suspect that those experiences were also good ones.

Wink

 

[oldminer]

Wink;

You may be correct that the buy/sell channels of Polygon are more heavily used. My main use of Polygon became the Discussion channels. I initially wanted to do business there with other dealers, but found the selling was primarily to bottom fishing folks who didn''t want to pay a fair price for a better item. They preferred junk and low cost items which I always avoided, still do. Only a small number of the buyers were really looking for nicer things. Once I knew who they were, I offered items directly to them rather than waste time with lookers and hagglers. It was my own style of business which drove me away I suppose.

It would be quite a study to know the real facts about how many users log in more than once or twice a week. I suppose we''d like to understand the same about Pricescope. It is all a matter of personal curiousity. My gut feeling was a rather small number of people became the main fabric of Polygon while manyl members had complete access which they could not figure out how to benefit from. There are many members of Polygon that have just about no idea why they joined, but figure they are now part of the Internet.

 

[Modified Brilliant]

I have been a Polygon member since 2003. I've received and exchanged valuable appraisal advice
over the years. There is a terrific watch expert who is always kind enough to help me when I get stumped!
An independent appraiser can sometimes feel a little lonely and misunderstood

Polygon gives me a sense of
community and a pulse of what the retail jewelry world is doing on a national scale. I'm also a member of
Appraisers Information Network (AIN), International Diamond Exchange (IDEX) and New York Diamond Dealers Club (I use this for
information only--I do not sell diamonds)
These are all paid subscription services that help me make better decisions and valuations to better inform my clients. An appraiser, unlike a retailer,
has no inventory (just lots of gemological tools). We provide or "sell" information to our clients. Much like an attorney
or CPA. We can't stick our heads in the sand...we have to know what's happening in our profession or we will lag
behind and eventually vanish.

Jeff Averbook,GG
Graduate Gemologist since 1986
www.metrojewelryappraisers.com