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ideal a perfect hand...

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
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12
She deserves the best, but what if I don''t know how to go about finding it? My budget is 30K, and I think, based on my few trips to jewelers, that aside from carat I''m most sensitive to cut and color. I''ve gone through a few of the sites that were recommended in this forum and have selected a few stones that caught my attention. But how do you discern between them without being able to see them? I''d so greatly appreciate any input!

-Jordan-

1.86 ct E VS1:

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-signature-ideal-cut-e-color-vs1-clarity_LD01273971?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0

1.77 ct F VS1:

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-1474661.htm#

1.91 ct E VS1:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4843/

1.79 ct D VS2:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5065/

1.91 F VS1:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1131275.asp

1.84 F VVS2:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VVS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1064719.asp

1.57 F VVS1:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VVS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1195049.asp
 
Date: 4/27/2009 9:49:11 AM
Author:ideal a perfect hand...
She deserves the best, but what if I don't know how to go about finding it? My budget is 30K, and I think, based on my few trips to jewelers, that aside from carat I'm most sensitive to cut and color. I've gone through a few of the sites that were recommended in this forum and have selected a few stones that caught my attention. But how do you discern between them without being able to see them? I'd so greatly appreciate any input!

-Jordan-

1.86 ct E VS1:

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-signature-ideal-cut-e-color-vs1-clarity_LD01273971?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0

1.77 ct F VS1:

http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-1474661.htm#

1.91 ct E VS1:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4843/

1.79 ct D VS2:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5065/

1.91 F VS1:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1131275.asp

1.84 F VVS2:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VVS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1064719.asp

1.57 F VVS1:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VVS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1195049.asp
Click to expand...


Hi Jordan and welcome!

I will just fix the links then take a look for you....

1.86 ct E VS1:

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-signature-ideal-cut-e-color-vs1-clarity_LD01273971?__fun_frm=i&filter_id=0


1.77 ct F VS1:


http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/Whiteflash-ACA-cut-diamond-1474661.htm#


1.91 ct E VS1:


http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4843/


1.79 ct D VS2:


http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5065/


1.91 F VS1:


http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1131275.asp


1.84 F VVS2:


http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VVS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1064719.asp


1.57 F VVS1:


http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-VVS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1195049.asp

 
Ok I have taken a quick look for you Jordan, my initial thoughts are as follows.

You have picked some very promising diamonds! With the one from BN it looks good but they will not provide any additional info that we like here such as ASET or Idealscope images in order to evaluate the diamonds properly. You can read up on these tools here.

http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance

Nor do BN offer any kind of upgrade policy should that ever be a future consideration.

The WF and GOG diamonds look great and there is all the info available you need in order to know exactly what you are buying. If you want a branded h&a diamond then I would consider a WF A Cut Above or one of GOG's h&a. Also both vendors have a 100% lifetime upgrade policy on many of their diamonds.

James Allen - some of the diamonds listed have potential, with the ones which don't have Idealscope provided you would need to ask for one. JA do have an upgrade policy but the terms vary to those of some of the other vendors so if this is important to you it would be best to read up and compare these and factor this into your decision.

I take it you prefer high clarity such as VS or VVS also? If you would like to try to hit the 2 carat mark then maybe we could take a look for you and suggest some diamonds which might suit you?

For example this one, it might be new and the images not uploaded yet, it would appear it is an inventory stone, if you like the look of it then ask WF to send you some photos and the Idealscope images etc if they do have it in house.

http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-2106442.htm

$28,489 with bank wire payment.
 
Lorelei,

Thanks for the prompt response! I agree with you that an upgrade policy would be preferable--though hopefully not used for quite some time!--so I guess I''ll put the BN diamond on the back-burner for the moment. I''ve read the tutorials you recommended, but I''m not sure what exactly it means to have a branded H&A diamond. Who, exactly, does the branding?

I''m obviously leaning toward the diamonds that I can see ASET and Idealscope images for: the GOG 1.91-ct, the GOG 1.79-ct, and the WF ACA 1.772-ct. To my eyes, the Idealscope images for all three look exquisite. The ASET images look good too, although the one for the GOG 1.91-ct looks a bit less crisp than for the others. Is there anything in particular that I should be noticing? I really want to value cut above all else, but being new to this, I hope I can rely on Pricescope readers to guide me in the right direction!

You''re right that I tailored my search to exclude any clarity grade below a VS; I''m a bit nervous about going any lower, especially online, and there''s also something appealing about being able to tell her that the diamond is a VS or VVS. I went to a jeweler the other day who tried to sell me on a $27,000 HoF 1.6-ct SI1. To be honest, I couldn''t tell the difference between the SI and a VS, and the jeweler told me that it was because of HoF''s super-ideal cut. But I joined Pricescope because I was skeptical about whether I really would get my money''s worth. I''ll be the first to say that the diamond he showed me was remarkably beautiful, but I also am worried about paying a high mark-up. Is there something about the HoF''s cut that I won''t be able to find online?

I asked WF for the images on the diamond you recommended, but I haven''t heard back yet.

Any other advice? What do you like as between the three diamonds I''m looking at now? Thanks again!

-Jordan-

33.gif
 
The branding depends, for example we have the Infinity brand h&a from the company of the same name, Whiteflash have their branded A Cut Above, Hearts on Fire which you can find in stores etc.

I just have to pop outside for a few minutes then I will come right back to this and write some more for you!
35.gif
Back in a few....
 
Date: 4/27/2009 2:08:32 PM
Author: ideal a perfect hand...
Lorelei,

Thanks for the prompt response! I agree with you that an upgrade policy would be preferable--though hopefully not used for quite some time!--so I guess I'll put the BN diamond on the back-burner for the moment. I've read the tutorials you recommended, but I'm not sure what exactly it means to have a branded H&A diamond. Who, exactly, does the branding?

I'm obviously leaning toward the diamonds that I can see ASET and Idealscope images for: the GOG 1.91-ct, the GOG 1.79-ct, and the WF ACA 1.772-ct. To my eyes, the Idealscope images for all three look exquisite. The ASET images look good too, although the one for the GOG 1.91-ct looks a bit less crisp than for the others. Is there anything in particular that I should be noticing? I really want to value cut above all else, but being new to this, I hope I can rely on Pricescope readers to guide me in the right direction!

You're right that I tailored my search to exclude any clarity grade below a VS; I'm a bit nervous about going any lower, especially online, and there's also something appealing about being able to tell her that the diamond is a VS or VVS. I went to a jeweler the other day who tried to sell me on a $27,000 HoF 1.6-ct SI1. To be honest, I couldn't tell the difference between the SI and a VS, and the jeweler told me that it was because of HoF's super-ideal cut. But I joined Pricescope because I was skeptical about whether I really would get my money's worth. I'll be the first to say that the diamond he showed me was remarkably beautiful, but I also am worried about paying a high mark-up. Is there something about the HoF's cut that I won't be able to find online?

I asked WF for the images on the diamond you recommended, but I haven't heard back yet.

Any other advice? What do you like as between the three diamonds I'm looking at now? Thanks again!

-Jordan-

33.gif
Click to expand...
Ok I am back!

The three diamonds that have all the info look great, the one from WF and the two from GOG. With the 1.91 ASET I wouldn't worry as that is probably the result of the photography set up and or variances in technique, lighting and so on. These diamonds are top notch cut so no worries there.

No worries about preferring VS clarity, buying a diamond is a matter of personal preference and some do prefer VS or above which is perfectly fine. HoF are beautiful stones but from what I understand they are expensive. I haven't seen one in person, one of our PS ladies RisingSun has one and it is stunning! But if you want a h&a such as an ACA, Infinity or one of GOG's then they would probably be just as beautiful. If RS sees this, she has owned both an ACA as well as her HoF and she might be able to describe each for you. Out of the three mentioned above, personally I like the 1.91 GOG diamond best, but you can't go wrong with any of them. I would also be really interested to see the images for the other WF diamond I linked, if that one checks out and is an in house diamond it could be a definite contender.
 
I have a headache and I''m probably a little hard today but:

~ Whiteflash
Not the nicest ASET/IdealScope pictures I''ve seen for ACA. Really not!
Would Brian call this one ACA?

~ GoodOldGold
Both diamonds have pavilion angles higher than 41 degrees, I don''t like that.

~ James Allen
Why do you hide the dates on your certificates?
I don''t trust sellers who have secrets.

Sorry for this negative post, but I think it is constructive to let the vendors know what we need.
7.gif
 
Thanks for the critique, Stephan. What a big decision to make! Can you suggest any alternatives? Right now, I''m with Lorelei on the 1.91 GOG, but I honestly don''t know anything about what sorts of proportions and angles to look for. I may also wait to see the WF images on the one Lorelei pointed out, although WF gave it four stars rather than five, for what that''s worth.

-Jordan-
 
Date: 4/27/2009 3:41:13 PM
Author: ideal a perfect hand...
Thanks for the critique, Stephan. What a big decision to make! Can you suggest any alternatives? Right now, I'm with Lorelei on the 1.91 GOG, but I honestly don't know anything about what sorts of proportions and angles to look for. I may also wait to see the WF images on the one Lorelei pointed out, although WF gave it four stars rather than five, for what that's worth.

-Jordan-
Click to expand...


Only the ACA brands get 5 stars Jordan, read more here which tells you how WF assign the stars. I really think it might be worth seeing what the images are like for that diamond.

http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds_info/t/all_about.aspx?articleid=349&zoneid=21

Also here are some guidelines you can use to help you find a well cut round diamond if needed.

depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above


note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!

From expert John Pollard.

"As the above implies, configurations depend on each other. A little give here can still work with a little take there.

With that said, here's a "Cliff's Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.



GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35)."



 
Thanks Stephan. Based on the available specs, these both look like a great finds. But now I''m sort of attached to the idea of having an upgrade policy and being able to see the ASET and Idealscope images. For my own edification, what do you think will be wrong as a result of having the pavilion angles too large?
 
Date: 4/27/2009 3:52:52 PM
Author: ideal a perfect hand...
Thanks Stephan. Based on the available specs, these both look like a great finds. But now I'm sort of attached to the idea of having an upgrade policy and being able to see the ASET and Idealscope images. For my own edification, what do you think will be wrong as a result of having the pavilion angles too large?
Click to expand...

This is my take on pavilion angles, usually I don't like going over a 41 degree pavilion angle myself but in the case of diamonds such as the above where the images prove the diamonds check out and with colourless stones also I have no issue with those at all if not much over 41 degrees. Unknown quantities I am more cautious especially if no images are available. You can find diamonds with much shallower crown angles to compensate but really due to the possibility of light leakage and other issues regardless I prefer to stick to 41 degrees or less, or not to go much over 41.
 
Date: 4/27/2009 3:52:52 PM
Author: ideal a perfect hand...
For my own edification, what do you think will be wrong as a result of having the pavilion angles too large?
Click to expand...
It''s a long discussed question on the forum.
I will post a link in seconds where you will be able to read about it, and see all the stand points.
 
* quick threadjack*

Stephan I hope your headache gets better quickly, I am having sinus trouble from a stupid cold so I feel your pain!
7.gif
 
Hmm, so I guess the proportions are a bit iffy. Lorelei, I guess this gives me more reason to wait for Whiteflash to get back to me with those images! Meanwhile, Stephan, do you think that the larger pavilion angle will affect the diamond''s quality in some way that doesn''t show up on GOG''s ASET and Idealscope images?

I''m so excited about finding the right stone. I can''t thank you two enough for offering up your expertise.
 
Date: 4/27/2009 4:11:41 PM
Author: ideal a perfect hand...
Hmm, so I guess the proportions are a bit iffy. Lorelei, I guess this gives me more reason to wait for Whiteflash to get back to me with those images! Meanwhile, Stephan, do you think that the larger pavilion angle will affect the diamond''s quality in some way that doesn''t show up on GOG''s ASET and Idealscope images?

I''m so excited about finding the right stone. I can''t thank you two enough for offering up your expertise.
Click to expand...
I would really like to check the WF diamond out, it is intriguing me and as there is a possibility it could be a great diamond I would love to see the info - then if it doesn''t check out we can rule it out!

And you are most welcome!
 
Here it is!

http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-2106442.htm

What do you folks think?

-Jordan-
 
Date: 4/27/2009 4:17:48 PM
Author: ideal a perfect hand...
Here it is!

http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-2106442.htm

What do you folks think?

-Jordan-
Click to expand...
That was fast!!! I shall take a look.....

http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-2106442.htm

YES!!! Its a winner!!! If you like it Jordan reserve it if you are seriously interested, there is no obligation and it will prevent poaching by lurkers. This happens a lot around here.
 
Date: 4/27/2009 4:11:38 PM
Author: Lorelei
* quick threadjack*

Stephan I hope your headache gets better quickly, I am having sinus trouble from a stupid cold so I feel your pain!
7.gif
Click to expand...
Thank you Lorelei!
35.gif

You live in England (right?) ...
England = Belgium = same paradisiac weather
20.gif
 
Date: 4/27/2009 4:18:46 PM
Author: QueenMum

Date: 4/27/2009 4:11:38 PM
Author: Lorelei
* quick threadjack*

Stephan I hope your headache gets better quickly, I am having sinus trouble from a stupid cold so I feel your pain!
7.gif
Click to expand...
Thank you Lorelei!
35.gif

You live in England (right?) ...
England = Belgium = same paradisiac weather
20.gif
Click to expand...
Absolutely right - weather has been miserable!
14.gif
 
Looks good to me.
 
Date: 4/27/2009 4:18:42 PM
Author: Lorelei
If you like it Jordan reserve it if you are seriously interested, there is no obligation and it will prevent poaching by lurkers. This happens a lot around here.
Click to expand...
Hard to believe but it is true, I saw it happen several times!
Bad bad lurkers!
11.gif
 
Date: 4/27/2009 4:17:48 PM
Author: ideal a perfect hand...
Here it is!

http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-2106442.htm

What do you folks think?
Click to expand...
I think you learn very fast!
2.gif
 
Okay, silly question but how do I reserve it without purchasing it? I still want to buy the ring, probably at Whiteflash also!

BTW, I''m sorry to hear about both of your headaches too!
 
Date: 4/27/2009 4:22:40 PM
Author: QueenMum


Date: 4/27/2009 4:18:42 PM
Author: Lorelei
If you like it Jordan reserve it if you are seriously interested, there is no obligation and it will prevent poaching by lurkers. This happens a lot around here.
Click to expand...
Hard to believe but it is true, I saw it happen several times!
Bad bad lurkers!
11.gif
Click to expand...
Did you see those 20k earrings vanish within hours a few weeks ago Stephan? Gone just like that, the original poster didn't have a chance at them!
 
Date: 4/27/2009 4:25:28 PM
Author: ideal a perfect hand...
Okay, silly question but how do I reserve it without purchasing it? I still want to buy the ring, probably at Whiteflash also!

BTW, I''m sorry to hear about both of your headaches too!
Click to expand...
Just give them a call and ask them to put the diamond on hold for you, they are a great crew and very nice to deal with!

Thanks about the headache, I have had this horrible cold and now my sinuses are flaring up as usual.
 
Date: 4/27/2009 4:26:24 PM
Author: Lorelei
Did you see those 20k earrings vanish within hours a few weeks ago Stephan? Gone just like that, the original poster didn''t have a chance at them!
Click to expand...
I didn''t see that one, but I''ve seen it happen on smaller diamonds 2-3 times.
Too bad!
 
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